Hey guys,

I just took possesion of my Dad's muzzleloader that hasn't been shot for years. I know a good cleaning is in order, but other than that I have no idea where to start. It is a 45 caliber percussion cap rifle. What do I need to know before starting?

Specifically:
1) I've got some FFg, is that worth trying in the gun?
2) Where should I start my powder charges and what is considered max?


I know you probably need more information than that. I'll try to tell you what I can if you ask. I've been reloading centerfire for a few years, and just need some help cracking into the muzzleloading arena.

Thanks

With a round ball I would start at 60 grains. If the hamer cocks it is a very hot load!:D
If I were you I would try some Pyrodex P pistol powder. You will NOT have a hang fire with that stuff. Also put a Hot shot nipple on it, and your good to go!
Ron

The first order of business is to get that rifle to a competent muzzleloader gunsmith. Not all gunsmiths know muzzleloaders so if the guy down the street sells AR's, AK's & FN's, chances are he doesn't know enough about ML's to properly inspect it for safety and function. That's not a dig on the suppository gunsmiths, that's just fact, if they don't know ML's inside and out, they should not do the inspection.

The bore, breech plug, drum assembly, lock and trigger need to be checked completely and if there is any doubt, it should be un-breeched and given a complete inspection. The drawback to un-breeching is that sometimes the plug is not easily removed, it may be rusted in solid in which case it may not come out and/or the barrel assembly could be damaged in the process.

Only after the rifle is fully inspected and believed to be in good safe working order should you attempt to shoot it starting with light loads and checking for any unseen problems after each shot. Start with a 40 grain charge of the 2F and work your way up 5 grains at a time from there.

You'll need some 0.440" or 0.445" round balls and patch material, either strip you cut at the muzzle or pre-cut patches of the proper size, the patch material should be at least 0.012" thick. If using a 0.440" ball, likely a 0.014"-0.020" thick patch will work best, if using 0.445" balls a patch from 0.012"-0.016" will likely be needed.

The maximum load will be determined by the rifle, at some point it will start loosing accuracy and you'll need to back down the powder charge to the point where you get the best accuracy. In the .45 caliber, you should not run more than 100gr of 2F or 90gr of 3F black powder but the manufacturer's maximum safe load may be lower than that so do not exceed the mfg's limits.

Black powder is measured using a black powder volumetric measure, do not weigh the charges, always measure them by volume as the actual weight of the powder can vary considerably from lot to lot in some powder brands.

Never exceed maximum loads or use anything but black powder or you may end up with something that looks like this...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/smokeless-Indiana.jpg

What kind of FFg do you have? Is it Goex?

I think FFFg GOEX would be better in a 45 cal. But every gun has a different appetite. Mark's recommendations are spot on.

Just make a list:
1) Ball Starter (looks like a Round Wooden Ball with short 6-8 inch stick on it)
2) Round Balls in .440
3) Prelubed Patches .010 or so
4) Caps #11's
5) Black Powder Measure ( I find the clear ones with graduated lines are great an easy to use)
6) Black Powder (as I said, I think FFFg would be better and my vote goes to GOEX and not Triple Seven or other subsititute)
7) Ram Jig to swab out the barrel
8) Patches to clean the barrel 1.5 inch square cotton cloth
9) Bore cleaner (many on the market for balck powder)
10) Pick to clean out nipple or keep it clean
11) Bore brush

I have to wonder how much black powder it took to blow up that gun? I'm betting it was smokeless.

I have to wonder how much black powder it took to blow up that gun? I'm betting it was smokeless.


Yup, that was smokeless, don't know how much or what kind but it sure did turn loose. This one was black powder, info I got is an 80gr blank charge & paper wad, no ball. Someone saved some money, about $350, buying an import rather than a quality gun....you get what you pay for.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/indiamade1.jpg

Excellent advice here. I'll add the comment that you should not use in-line rifle loads and projectiles in your percussion rifle, which is basically a 10-12,000 psi firearm. My neighbor tried some in-line loads in his sidelock percussion rifle and it blew up in his face, blowing his cap and glasses off his head, and bits of metal imbedded in his cheek. He could have lost his eyesight.

Lyman's "Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual", widely available, will give you great information on loads.

Whatever you do.... NEVER load two balls in the firearm. Sometimes you can get distracted so mark your ramrod so you can be sure. My father told me about his friend who made that mistake and it cost him some fingers. He was still shooting competitively after that incident. Guess he loved the sport.

Whatever you do.... NEVER load two balls in the firearm. Sometimes you can get distracted so mark your ramrod so you can be sure. My father told me about his friend who made that mistake and it cost him some fingers. He was still shooting competitively after that incident. Guess he loved the sport.

Two balls is not the problem because two weigh the same or even less than some minnies. The problem is when you double charge it (powder, ball, powder, ball) and that can have nasty results. Actually you have to be kinda disconnected from what you are doing to double charge gun because it is easy to verify if it is loaded with the use of the ramrod.

The only problem with fireing 2 balls is that when they get some space between them the gun blows up because you now have an obstructed bore.

A mistake I made was to load a ball without any powder. Instead of unbreeching the barrel i tried pulling it out with a ball puller. It didnt center so i couldnt pull it out. Then I used a metal rod. The crown of the barrel should not be allowed to wear down. Competition shooters use an extension to protect the muzzle. You should keep that in mind when loading the rifle. A crown that is worn will cause inaccuracy . The crown is very important and since it is loaded from the muzzle extra care should be given. Also blackpowder is very corrosive so rifles should be cleaned immediately after shooting. Dont use petroleum based cleaners. Just trying to save you from any problems thats all.

A mistake I made was to load a ball without any powder. Instead of unbreeching the barrel i tried pulling it out with a ball puller. It didnt center so i couldnt pull it out. Then I used a metal rod. The crown of the barrel should not be allowed to wear down. Competition shooters use an extension to protect the muzzle. You should keep that in mind when loading the rifle. A crown that is worn will cause inaccuracy . The crown is very important and since it is loaded from the muzzle extra care should be given. Also blackpowder is very corrosive so rifles should be cleaned immediately after shooting. Dont use petroleum based cleaners. Just trying to save you from any problems thats all.


I did that once about 30 years ago. It was a T/C and I pulled the nipple out and got maybe 5 to 7 grains of powder behind nipple in breach flash channel and discharged gun and it cleared barrel. BTW, I never use a metal rod loading or cleaning. Hardwood is the material of choice for me. I like it better than fiberglass or composite rods.

Don't want to be blowed up.

Yup, that was smokeless, don't know how much or what kind but it sure did turn loose. This one was black powder, info I got is an 80gr blank charge & paper wad, no ball. Someone saved some money, about $350, buying an import rather than a quality gun....you get what you pay for.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/indiamade1.jpg


No wad either. Not allowed to use a ramrod and paper cartridges are dropped on the ground after the powder is dumped in.

Dan

Hey guys,

I just took possesion of my Dad's muzzleloader that hasn't been shot for years. I know a good cleaning is in order, but other than that I have no idea where to start. It is a 45 caliber percussion cap rifle. What do I need to know before starting?

Specifically:
1) I've got some FFg, is that worth trying in the gun?
2) Where should I start my powder charges and what is considered max?


I know you probably need more information than that. I'll try to tell you what I can if you ask. I've been reloading centerfire for a few years, and just need some help cracking into the muzzleloading arena.

Thanks

Powder charges over 40 grains should work well.
With FFG you will probably find that over about 60-70 grains there will be little increase in velocity.

Dan

Powder charges over 40 grains should work well.
With FFG you will probably find that over about 60-70 grains there will be little increase in velocity.

Dan

I would not even use FF in a 45. They do best with FFF. FF will foul it quickly and deliver lower velocities too. 50 grains of FFF is a good RB load for a 45 and should deliver about 1600 FPS plus with about 9000 PSI or less and it should shot well. 70 grains of FFF will give you about 2000 FPS at about 13000 PSI. Above 70 grains of FFF you really do not gain much more velocity for the amount of extra powder added. With 50 grains of FF you would get about 1400 FPS and with 70 about 1600 FPS. You have to use 100 grains of FF to make it to 2000 FPS and pressure will be higher too at around 15,000 PSI.