The following was posted in the thread on Bread and Wine;

Amen, brother! I seem to recall Paul mentioning that Christ died for freedom, to set us free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not free to be idiots, but free from rule-keeping and score-keeping and never feeling like you've quite got it right and that He therefore is still displeased with you. The enemy is the one busy trying to strangle the life out of believers. It's all he can do. And sadly, it works pretty well.
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I took this the wrong way at the time and apologized when I realized my error. But, it has lead me to think on what our freedom means.


First what are we freed from? We were slaves to sin. We are released from that slavery by the price paid by our Redeemer. We are free from the requirements of Levitical Law. Jesus did not replace the Law, but he did “Complete” the Law, making adherence to it unnecessary.


Are we free to continue to sin? Paul repeatedly said “No!” in the strongest terms. We are to avoid even the appearance of sin. So, what happens when we sin after coming to faith in Christ? Have we offended Him? Are we automatically forgiven for this sin by His redemptive act? Should we acknowledge that sin and beg our Lord for forgiveness? I think we can all agree that we need to take that action. James says in 5:16 that we need to not only pray for ourselves but also confess our sins to one another that they may pray for us.


If I go to a brother in Christ and confess and ask for his prayer am I rule keeping or being obedient to the word of God? Did this requirement end with the last Apostle?


What if I don't acknowledge my sin in a spirit of true repentance before God, let alone my brother? Am I in danger of falling back into slavery to sin? In the Old Testament, any Israelite who fell back into debt after being redeemed by his kinsman could still mismanage his affairs and fall back into slavery. Can we who have accepted Christ as Savior fall back into slavery to sin and suffer spiritual death? James thought so.



Jas 5:19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.


When I look at what James has to say along with Paul's continual exhortations about perseverance I think I have to accept that we can still fall. That by falling back into slavery to sin I can throw away that gift of Grace extended to me, just as the beggar in the street can squander the coin given to him in an act of grace by the passerby.


I stipulate that the Redemptive act of Christ is sufficient to cover all our sins committed up till we come to faith in Him. But, continuing to sin after that point places us back into debt. Continuing in sin without repenting and asking forgiveness will lead to our squandering the Gift given us by our Lord.


So, what are we free from?

To put it briefly, we are "free" to do as we wish.

Lost people, those not "born again", simply are not totally free to do as they wish in that they cannot possibly live as they should no matter how badly they may wish to because they have no helper to be spiritually right. We have a Helper who can assist us do what we really want to do if we will follow his guidance. He is there even if we ignore Him and do wrong. But, the final decision in how we, the saved, live is ours to make; live right and get rewarded or live wrong and pay the penalties.

In either case we will not be discarded, whither we do right or wrong we are still born again into the eternal family but, like the prodigal son, we can seperate ourselves from the benefits of being children of God, all by our own choices. Salvation is not a reward for being "good" nor sent to **** as punishment for being "bad", salvation is purely a gift from the Father to those who submit to his Son and place their trust in Him alone.

"So, what are we free from?" Having to pay the penalty for our sins, past, present and future, "not the part but the whole."

To put it briefly, we are "free" to do as we wish.

Lost people, those not "born again", simply are not totally free to do as they wish in that they cannot possibly live as they should no matter how badly they may wish to because they have no helper to be spiritually right. We have a Helper who can assist us do what we really want to do if we will follow his guidance. He is there even if we ignore Him and do wrong. But, the final decision in how we, the saved, live is ours to make; live right and get rewarded or live wrong and pay the penalties.


I agree wholeheartedly. Pay close attention to your last sentence above as you read the rest of my answer.

In either case we will not be discarded, whither we do right or wrong we are still born again into the eternal family but, like the prodigal son, we can seperate ourselves from the benefits of being children of God, all by our own choices. Salvation is not a reward for being "good" nor sent to **** as punishment for being "bad", salvation is purely a gift from the Father to those who submit to his Son and place their trust in Him alone.

I have not spoken of being discarded, but rather, throwing away the gift of our own free will. Otherwise I agree with your statement. In regards to the Prodigal Son who squandered the gift of his father, what if he had not repented and returned? Would he not have died in total separation from his father?

"So, what are we free from?" Having to pay the penalty for our sins, past, present and future, "not the part but the whole."

I agree that we are free from the penalty of our past sins once we come to faith in Christ. Where we differ is in respect to present and future sin. I hold such a belief to be presumptuous at best. Let us look back at what James said. What is this death a wanderer's soul faces if not h***?

Jas 5:19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

I again go back to my question about the Prodigal. If we do not repent and come back as he did, we face the death of our souls. Why else would Paul tell us to persevere in our faith? Why else would Christ have told us this parable? The Prodigal was in the arms of the father just as James speaks of a brother who wanders from the truth. The Prodigal left and had to pay the consequences of this action taken of his own free will. He was forgiven when he repented and asked for forgiveness. But what if he had not? This parable is a warning for those who claim salvation in Christ, not the unbelievers who were never in Christ.

Pax

Willis

There is no true freedom without responsibility. I liken it to a kite; with no string it's not free it's just flying all over the place. Jesus is our string, as long as we hold on to him and we allow him to hold on to us, we are free. God bless us all.

There is no true freedom without responsibility. I liken it to a kite; with no string it's not free it's just flying all over the place. Jesus is our string, as long as we hold on to him and we allow him to hold on to us, we are free. God bless us all.

Exactly!!!!!!

Ron,
Great analogy!
God bless,
Greg

I've heard it said on another board: 1. Use Wisdom 2. Don't Sin 3. Make your choice.

My point that I was driving, and usually am driving at, is that Jesus came to do more than save our sorry butts and haul us away to Heaven, even while we struggle and burn here until then. It's not about sin management, putting up good fronts, or staying in our rooms since that's the only way we can obey.

He came to restore us to life, abundant life, a freed life. We are finally free to choose not to sin. We are free to choose to follow Him and do His will. We are free to enter into the story of God's work, and find our part, and live it out fully and without apology. We are free to begin to exhibit His glory again. (2 Cor 3:18)

This is way beyond list of things to do and things to not do. It's about an intimate walk with the One who calls us His bride, who woos us and romances us, and desires for us to fall madly in love with Him. (Forget that you're guys for a second, let your estrogen out....!)

It is meant to be an abundant life right HERE right NOW. And I can tell you that it can be.

I think that's a pretty good answer, there, JR1.

I like I Peter 2:16: "Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil".

"Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty"

Free from bondage to sin. Free from condemnation for the sin we are always continually committing, because of Christ's substitutionary righteousness imparted to us.

We are free - yet we are called to submit to the authority of Christ, His church, the government. And we submit in love to our spouse as Christ gave himself up for his church. What a paradox - the humble shall be lifted up. The first shall become last.

And I should have added somewhere, free to free others! That's what the Zorro thing means to me, someone fighting for others, to free them of the slavery of the enemy, of religion....

I've been mulling this over for a few days. Freedom for me is summed up in 2 things.

1. I am free to look in the mirror knowing the guy looking back is forgiven from his sins.

2. When I die (could be seconds... could be decades), I will pass to perfect love for all eternity.

The freedom is in the peace of knowing these things. Not the peace of the world but the peace God gives to those to know Jesus as Savior. Jesus paid for it all with his blood. I am His. My signature line says it all.

Free from bondage to sin. Free from condemnation for the sin we are always continually committing, because of Christ's substitutionary righteousness imparted to us.

We are free - yet we are called to submit to the authority of Christ, His church, the government. And we submit in love to our spouse as Christ gave himself up for his church. What a paradox - the humble shall be lifted up. The first shall become last.

I agree with you that so long as we submit to the authority of Christ we are free from bondage to sin. But, what if we become complacent and turn away? And what if we are full of pride and boasting in our freedom?

Ro 11:18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
Ro 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”
Ro 11:20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
Ro 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Ro 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Ro 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.