I see a lot of people talking about lead/tin mixes, antimony's, "the right ratios".... Is it really that critical? I ask because I've been shooting cast bullets from wheel weights only out of a 9MM, .40 S&W, and 30-06 Rem 700. I've NEVER had any problems that I could see. Accuaracy's never been an issue, and I don't worry so much about an extra 100-200 FPS. So what am I missing?? Either way you look at it, aren't there pressure limitations when using lead when wanting to get more FPS out of the bullet? Meaning there's a line that just can't be crossed?

A real quick answer is that adding anitmony, as you mentioned, helps make the final bullet harder, which can be a plus for higher velocities in a rifle. And tin helps keep the lead from wanting to ball up, which in turn allows the lead to fill the mold out all the way a little easier. I am sure that more people will provide you more details.

AH HAA! Thanks! Now I know. One thing comes to mind about the tin and filling the mold though..... I think of the wrinkling on the bullet. To my understanding, that's a temperature issue. I just recycle them until the mold is hot enough to get wrinkle free, then go from there.

highflyer
Actually,you are not missing anything.
Casters who are fussy about their alloys are looking for something special.
Straight wheel weight alloy is OK for most cast bullet usage.I personally,always add 2-5% tin to it for better looking bullets.
I add 2-5% tin to pure/almost pure lead for hunting bullets.
I never had reason to add antimony to an alloy.I wrap my high speed cast bullets with paper.
Frank

I've not cast for my rifles, but I do have a 32 caliber mold for the 8mm. I've always used both wheel weight and Linotype as I got it with great results. I'm not pushing them at max velocity though. 44 and 41 mags don't go over 1300 fps, 45 Colts at 1100 max and the 38 special at 850. I've never had a problem. I use Lee Aluminum molds and they start casting good bullets right from the get go. I'll have to try a little tin to see what it does next time I start casting. I've got big roll of solder I could alloy it with.

no need to worry about mixes if you use ww.it has tin /antimoni and arsnic and lead.some people have to nit pick,which is alright for them .but most casters dont need to go that far.same with powder,few tenths does not matter for general shooting.I cast and lube,if the bullet looks to bad I chuck it back in.at 50 ft does not make much difference[pistols]after 50 yds its velocity.rifles shooting into 2in at 100 is hunting accuracy.:rolleyes:-:D

For general purpose shooting I think unadulterated wheel weights work great. You have to figure that accounts for a lot of the popularity of bullet casting. Until recently a fellow could get all he wanted for free with out too much trouble.

On the other hand, the guys winning big matches don't shoot wheel weights (or at least don't admit it), the high velocity gas check boys like linotype. The plain base Schuetzen competitors like pure lead and tin.

The price of bullet metal is insignificant compared to traveling across the country to shoot a big match.

Adding some tin to your wheel weights does make a prettier bullet. I bought 20 pounds of tin and experimented with several different alloys. I've got 15 pounds left and I doubt I'll ever use any more of it up on pistol bullets.

Great info all. Thanks! Like I said, I just never had any trouble with what I've been doing. so if it aint broke, leave it alone, right?

It's like anything else in shooting. Special purposes or extreme accuracy dictate more complexity in the technology. If you are satisfied with what you can do now, leave it alone. If you find yourself asking, one day, if that 2" group can't maybe be brought down to 1.5" or even 1", or even less, then you are going to be looking at optimizing hardness for your obturation pressure, playing with special lubes, and so on. As we say in SCUBA, "plan the dive and dive the plan".

. . . Straight wheel weight alloy is OK for most cast bullet usage.I personally,always add 2-5% tin to it for better looking bullets.

I never had reason to add antimony to an alloy. Frank
Frank,
It's my understanding that the amount of tin in wheel weights is in the TENTHS of a percent so I always add enough to get to the 2-5% range. Some of my moulds will not fill out properly (especially in the grooves) unless I do so.

On the subject of producing a harder bullet, it's also my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that blending antimony alone requires the alloy be heated to higher than casting temperatures which leads to producing hazardous lead vapors. If this be the case, I would much rather add linotype which has a high percentage of antimony and can be blended at casting temperatures or use water quenching. Just my take on the subject of blending and hardening alloys.

Marshal,

0.5% is a commonly given tin content for WW's, but it actually varies regionally, because it depends who cast them and what alloy they need to cast the right weights from their molds? Like you, I almost always add some tin. In particular, I find small caliber bullets, like lighter .22's, don't have enough weight to fill out a mold as well as a .45 mold will with plain ww's without some additional tin.

You're also right about the vapors. Any time you get lead above around 900°F or more, the vapors start getting to be a problem. Antimony melts at 1166°F, so you need to get it melted into some lead to lower that melting point. That is most safely done in an oven designed for the task. I don't know whether they would go to the expense of using a hydrogen atmosphere or not? It conveys heat from the elements fast, but also the vapors would tend to sink to the bottom better in it.

... Antimony melts at 1166°F, so you need to get it melted into some lead to lower that melting point. That is most safely done in an oven designed for the task...
Well, this is a hotly:D debated point. I've read it claimed that antimony will dissolve in molten lead like salt does in water - you don't have to melt that salt to get it into the water, so long as the resulting solution is above its melting point.

On the other hand, there's a guy who claims to be a metallurgist who peddles Sb with a special flux he claims is necessary to do this dissolving. I can't see why it would be needed, but I haven't personally tried to dissolve pure Sb, either. Maybe it's needed to clean off the Sb oxide from the surface so the Sb metal is exposed to lead and can dissolve?

Well, this is a hotly:D debated point. . . .
I believe nick's right about the melting point of pure antimony so in order to melt it in molten lead, the lead must be either at that same temperature or above. Anything above it's melting point will cause vapors, which in this case, is unhealthy to creatures that breathe:D. Melting pure antimony in molten lead is not on my agenda of things to try.

My understanding is that antimony melts at a much higher temperature then either lead or tin but an antimonial alloy melts at only slightly higher temperature.
Frank

I believe nick's right about the melting point of pure antimony so in order to melt it in molten lead, the lead must be either at that same temperature or above. Anything above it's melting point will cause vapors, which in this case, is unhealthy to creatures that breathe:D. Melting pure antimony in molten lead is not on my agenda of things to try.
Right - which is exactly why you don't want to melt it into the lead at high temp, you want to let the lead dissolve it, like water dissolves salt. That should be possible at the lead's melting temperature, without having to heat all the way to the Sb melting temp. Just like you don't have to heat all the way to the salt's melting temp to dissolve it in water.

True, I add antimony to my hunting boolits and it melts in at 600*. Bill Ferguson sells it and the special flux needed. It doesn't take long to do.

True, I add antimony to my hunting boolits and it melts in at 600*. Bill Ferguson sells it and the special flux needed. It doesn't take long to do.
Hey! There's nothing like first-hand experience. Tell us, do you notice a difference with & without the flux? Does the flux come separate from the Sb, or is it already applied to it?

:oI think I'll just stick to straight WW. LOL

I hadn't thought about the fluxes. Just about getting bulk metal melted. Alloying and dissolving are not really the same thing, but in the liquid state these alloys probably are also solutions. Flux could certainly catalyze the change by reacting with the antimony to put it in an ionic state at the surface that will alloy with the lower temperature molten lead. In other words, it may provide an intermediate chemical state by reacting with it like an acid or alkaline solution will do to etch metal that's not molten. Boric acid (Borax) is a flux that does that with silica (sand) and copper. It will allow a bond to form between them.

the flux helps break the surface tension
the flux is also temperature sensitive, you also have to be very careful about how much you use
addind the antimony does take some time and patience to get in the mix.
you don't just dump it in flux and go, this is easy to mess up.
you have to control your temperature closely use the proper amount of flux and watch the size
ofyour fines in the mix, you also have to be very patient
as soon as you think ya got it you don't, and have to clean a half pound of antimony out
of the pot and weigh some more, flux and skim , and start over again

Highflyer
I'm with you other then adding a little tin to make pretty bullets it's straight WW. The guy's that get all caught up in the mix of there alloy are the same guy's that can't stand anything over 1/4" groups!! :) I get some pretty impressive groups with my trailer trash alloy!! ;)

i like what all the bullets i cast are made of... the lead came from an indoor range trap so they once were bullets and now they are bullets again... i did have a few wheel weights here to so i thew them in too... i still got nice hard enough for magnum loads bullets...

just cheaper way to make rifle bullets to shoot at 2-300 yds with raw materials and time
but if ya are gonna do it why not take the extra two hours and do it right?
and the more you know about it the easier it is to fix problems.
if i want to shoot 2" 100 yd groups i got a 45 colt and a 44 mag to do that with.
if i want to shoot steel plates at 25 yds i guess the 9mm knocks them down for a lot less lead.
but if the bbl is full of lead when i am done where is the fun in that?

Hey! There's nothing like first-hand experience. Tell us, do you notice a difference with & without the flux? Does the flux come separate from the Sb, or is it already applied to it?

When dissolving antimony into molten wheel weights I just flux the melt as usual and then submerge the antimony. The trick is having some tin (I use 4% tin since I'm making linotype) in the melt since antimony forms an inter-metallic compound with tin that facilitates its dissolution. (Come to think of it the tin is from a scrap dealer in a seedy neighborhood so the tin is probably already dissolute.)

Is there any advantage to making your own linotype rather than obtaining it ready-made? I shoot cast WW bullets in my handguns and jacketed in my rifles, so for me, a small supply of linotype would be more than adequate for any cast bullet shooting.

Supposedly some of the old used type metal has had a lot of the tin cooked out of it. I think they sold metal especially to replenish the tin.

In my quest to get my .22 shooting I have tried straight linotype, 3 parts linotype and one part tin enriched WW, WW/tin, and 25-1 WW/tin.

The softer the alloy the better the groups in this particular application.

So, if you are looking for all the accuracy you can get, trying different alloys is just one of many things to try.

Ditto on the old linotype. I got a couple boxes of it for free thirty years ago and I still have a lot of ingots of near-number 2 alloy I made up using that and wheel weights and plumber's solder. The solder was needed to bring the tin back up. Without it, the bullets tended to be gray. The melts of this stuff produced a lot of inclusions and needed a lot of fluxing initially.

Is there any advantage to making your own linotype rather than obtaining it ready-made? I shoot cast WW bullets in my handguns and jacketed in my rifles, so for me, a small supply of linotype would be more than adequate for any cast bullet shooting.

When my local supplier of lino dried up (except for degraded lino) it was interesting to learn a little about alloying. After learning about heat treating and quenching my store of lino is no longer being depleted.

When my local supplier of lino dried up (except for degraded lino) it was interesting to learn a little about alloying. After learning about heat treating and quenching my store of lino is no longer being depleted.
Makes you less dependent on your local supplier. That's why I got into casting my own too. My local supplier was hit or miss and usually when I needed something the most. Thanks