I've always aimed for just behind the shoulder and had good luck on killing game. This year I shot two calf elk and a large mule deer buck. All were shot with a model 70 .300 wsm using 180 grain bullets. The deer was shot at about 290 yards with federal ammo at about 3100 fps and accubond bullets. I shot it in the shoulder and busted the leg but didn't penetrate the chest cavity. Ended up chasing the thing about a mile or more. I shot both elk using winchester ammo with XP3 bullets. They were both at about 85 yards. The first was hit high in the chest cavity and gave no hint at all of being hit for about 3 minutes at which point it fell to the ground dead. The second elk was hit in the front leg at the same distance with the same bullet. Like the deer this broke the leg but didn't penetrate the chest cavity at all. This elk only went about 50 yards but I did have to finish it off with a neck shot. Needless to say, I was disappointed with the result in all 3 situations. I certainly don't plan on shooting for the shoulder again. I've also purchased new federal shells loaded with 180 gr barnes triple shock x bullets hoping for better performance next year. Anyway, like I say, I've always had good luck even with smaller cartridges shooting for the bread basket, but in reading I've done, authors often say to break them down by shooting them in the shoulder. To me that wastes meat and certainly doesn't seem to bring them down. I've never had anything go farther than the 50 yards when shot through the lungs or heart. Anyone else have experiences to share?

I've seen elk run downhill a quarter mile or better with a lung shot. Here in this steep canyon country where I hunt that can really ruin a day or two or three getting them out. I think you might be happier with the Barnes bullets though.

When I was shooting a 300 mag I used Noslers and Had pretty good luck with a heart lung shot, but lately I've been making a front shoulder shot, especially if I'm on the canyon breaks. This seems to work pretty well with the 8mm Rem mag I'm shooting with 220 grain Sierra Game King bullets and it worked OK and with the 300 with 180 grain Noslers. There are simply times when you do not want that animal going anywhere.

I've had deer go near 150 yards with a lung shot and they were throwing blood out both sides up on the brush. A bread basket shot seems to always kill, but some animals just have a strong will to live and will do surprising things. Some just do the elevator thing to the ground. The whitetail buck in question dressed out better than 250 pounds and was a dandy.

Your right about a shoulder shot destroying some meat, but good bullet construction and a bigger bullet will help alleviate that to a certain extent. I know if circumstances warrant it I'd rather a heart lung shot, but if your shooting in really steep country then I don't want the work that goes with a big elk or even a deer running to the bottom of a canyon like pictured.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/Around%20Home/LoloCreek.jpg

I shoot a 7WSM w/ Barnes Triple Shocks and always go for lung shoots.

Guess I've been lucky cause I have never had any game go more than 15-20 feet beore hitting the ground with the Barnes bullets in the lungs.

Shoot a nice cow last year approx. 250yrds. through both lungs went about 10 feet stopped stepped sideways and dropped.

I have had really good luck with the barnes on lung shoots taking them down fast.

Shoulder if you want it to fall down right now.

Lungs if you don't mind it falling down somewhere else.....

I'm having trouble visualizing a shoulder shot that does not also penetrate the chest unless the bullet deflects (or disintegrates) on the bone or the wrong shoulder was shot on a quartering animal. (The correct shoulder being the near one on an animal quartering toward the shooter and the far one on an animal quartering away from the shooter.) Perhaps my definition of the shoulder differs from that of myt-bird. I consider the shoulder to consist of the shoulder blade, the joint connecting the shoulder blade to the humerus and the top few inches of the humerus. A shot breaking the lower part of the humerus I would call a leg shot. Since the bottom of the chest is sloping rearward, the chest cavity might not be penetrated by a bullet breaking the bone lower. All the animals I've shot with a shoulder shot dropped immediately and had internal damage in the chest cavity or damage to the spine if the shot was slightly high. I've had the reaction of lung-shot deer vary from running about 80 yards to only turning around and then dropping immediately.

my son in law uses an 7 mag.. he always goes for the shoulder..i think hes usually is going for the whole front end drive ..he said he hasnt walked a deer dn since he started doing that..

I'm strictky a Whitetailer.
My speciality is sneeking up on unsuspecting or waiting for unsuspecting to wander by.
My sweetspot is right behind the shoulder.The only shoulder that I want to hit is the far one,on the other side,with a shot at an angle.
I have never had a deer move more then 50 yards,when shot with a reliable bullet.
The shoulder shot is for agitated or running deer.It doesn't kill,but does knock down every time,allowing for a follow up shot.
Frank

I'm a "Meat" hunter.

On deer, I always use a double lung shot in moring or afternoon, But will take a shoulder shot at dusk. Sometimes I lose 1 or both shoulders but have never blood shot the back straps.

I am also I whitetail hunter, but I've shot deer straight on through the neck when it's the only shot I've got. I remember hitting one at nearly 90 yrds, and she didn't even twitch, then took a running buck 30 seconds later also in the neck. He dropped right away too. I USUALLY go for the "behind the shoulder" shots, but ALWAYS dropped 'em where they stood with a neck shot. Those shots I just mentioned where when I was using the Hornady 180 BTSP. I now hunt with the 150 BTSP, and works just as well. Had excellent luck with the 150's in my AR-10 and 30-06.

You are correct. Neither shot hit the shoulder but each instead hit the upper humerus shattering the bone. Each shot, however, was at least a handsbreadth above the sternum level. Maybe I'm expecting too much from a bullet to be able to break the humerus and still penetrate the chest cavity. Both shots were at broadside animals and hit the near leg. The calf on further recollection probably only ran about 30 yards.

I've been in Bob's "frying-pan-canyon" country before, and a lot of times, you hunt from the top down. And, many times, there isn't an "out" going down, so you don't want any animals going down farther. A shoulder shot is a good shot in such cases, if the cartridge and bullet are up to the task. Let me tell you what, an animal that either runs or rolls another 400 yards in that country is going to take a lot of time to get out, most likely in pieces.

In the country I'm in now, it's mostly "hunt up", and the trail is below, so I mostly take lung/heart shots. If an animal dead-on-it's-feet wants to run closer to the trail, I'm all for it. Plus, no ruined meat. Still, there is always the possibility of "bluff-offs", and some draws that you just don't want to be in and if a shoulder shot anchors an animal and keeps you out of a nastier route out, that's the shot to take.

Quite a few years ago, one of my friends shot a cow elk right at 400 yards with an 8mm Rem Mag, behind the shoulder, with a 200 gr A-Square. Little bitty hole in, and little bitty hole out, and that cow went about 100 yards, with hardly any blood trail.

That's one of the reasons I went to the 8mm mag in this steep canyon country. Like Shawn said if I'm in a place where I know the elk isn't going to go straight down I'd much rather take a heart/lung shot knowing I won't destroy any meat, but there are simply times when you need to anchor them and nothing does that as well as a bullet that will break both front shoulders.

When I bought the 8 mag Sierra and Hornedy both designed 220 grain bullets just for that rifle. I've used both, but prefer the Seirra 220 grain Game King to everything I've shot in it. It's killed brown bear and moose in Alaska and a pile of deer and elk here in Idaho. There's something about the bigger calibers that even with a front shoulder shot it doesn't damage as much meat as a 270 or even my 280 Remington for some reason.

I really love the big 32 caliber slug and being a spitzer boattail it's no slouch at long range when started at just a little over 3000 fps. It shoots flatter than my old 308 Norma mag and my 300 Win mag does and just flat kills well.

Anyway I'm not so sure I'd try the break the shoulders trick with my 280 or the 308, probably stick with a heart/lung shot with them, but If I were buying a new gun to hunt elk in this steep canyon country it would probably be one of the hot 338 mags such as Remington's new Ultra-mag.

I'm not putting down all the folks that use smaller calibers, but I've helped bring a few elk out of places that were only a few hundred yards down the canyon walls from where they were shot and like Shawn says they come out in pieces and it's a bummer.


Lots of the folks here use powersaw winches and the like, but it still isn't fun clinging to the sides of a canyon steeper than a cows face hanging on to brush and trees trying to pack a hundred pounds of meat up to the top knowing that your going to have to make several more trips down to get the rest.

If you look there's two mule deer bedded down in the middle of this rock slide on a canyon wall.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/North%20Idaho/TwodeerneartopofMerose.jpg

Here they are up closer. It's an add for a magnum rifle and every step they go down is a step your going to carry them up.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q172/faucettb/North%20Idaho/DeeronMelrose.jpg

I have always and will always be a meat hunter. I will always go for a lung shot and if I am feeling good about the shot will take a neck shot. I have slipped the shot forward before and had good results as far as the animal going down quickly but am really pissed at myself later for ruining good meat. But, with that being said, most of my hunting is on the plains and am not worried about a drag out of a steep canyon - usually.

BigSky

We hunt whitetail in swamps. You really don't want to go trailing them at night. The doe deer are small and you really can't stand to lose the shoulder meat. If time permits and the deer cooperates, a neck shot is what we try for. Some of us even try the behind the ear shot on occasion. If something bragable walks out, all bets are off and the double shoulder in the dirt shot is an option.

You need a bigger gun. I shoot a 350 magnum for deer. They're just too hard to find if theres no snow in the thick stuff I hunt in. I like knowing that whatever shot presents itself I'm going to get full penetration and a good blood trail if needed. So far it hasn't been needed. I have also noticed that the big clibers don't bloodshoot the meat like the high velocity smallbores. Probably the heavier construction of the bullets. If I can get a good broadside shot I like a double lunger on the high side( they drown fast in thier own blood), but if its not a perfect broadside than I try for a shoulder. Like the man said quartering toward you shoot the close side, quartering away shoot for the far side.

You need a bigger gun. I shoot a 350 magnum for deer. They're just too hard to find if theres no snow in the thick stuff I hunt in. I like knowing that whatever shot presents itself I'm going to get full penetration and a good blood trail if needed. So far it hasn't been needed. I have also noticed that the big clibers don't bloodshoot the meat like the high velocity smallbores. Probably the heavier construction of the bullets. If I can get a good broadside shot I like a double lunger on the high side( they drown fast in thier own blood), but if its not a perfect broadside than I try for a shoulder. Like the man said quartering toward you shoot the close side, quartering away shoot for the far side.

My experiences exactly. Worst bloodshot deer I've seen come with the 270 or 30-06 with light bullets. One of the reasons I went to the 32's over the 30 calibers was it didn't seem to make near as much bloodshot and killed really well.

.35 Rem works great too!!! :D

As long as the bullet gets there before the sound of the shot, in the ear is very effective, unless you have a taste for brains.

I forgot I had pics. Here is one that went thru the eyes. It is 125 to the corn pile.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/bullelkCusterCounty-1-1.jpg

This is a photo I took in Custer County. There is a faint circle on the animal which is a mystery to me; might be related to the camera auto focus lens.

Its a classic broadside shot but not much time before the bull bolts for cover. I made a spot with photo program to show where to hit him hard. Then I'd shoot again. Typical novice kneels there suprised that the bull didn't fall over. But I advise to always shoot twice.

Big elk are not armor-plated. I've taken over a dozen with .308 and plain 180 grain core-lockt ammo. Two good hits from .308 far exceeds damage from one 300 Weatherby bullet. If you disbelive me, do the math and post-mortem.

Good hunting to you.
TR

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/bullelkCusterCounty-1-1.jpg

This is a photo I took in Custer County. There is a faint circle on the animal which is a mystery to me; might be related to the camera auto focus lens.

Its a classic broadside shot but not much time before the bull bolts for cover. I made a spot with photo program to show where to hit him hard. Then I'd shoot again. Typical novice kneels there suprised that the bull didn't fall over. But I advise to always shoot twice.

Big elk are not armor-plated. I've taken over a dozen with .308 and plain 180 grain core-lockt ammo. Two good hits from .308 far exceeds damage from one 300 Weatherby bullet. If you disbelive me, do the math and post-mortem.

Good hunting to you.
TR


Ditto on the 2 shots for elk. They can go a long way very quickly after a lung shot. Their 60-120 second run is a long hike up and down hill for me.