I would like to know if the H&R Buffalo Classic 45/70 would make a good entry level BP cartridge gun. I would like to try rifle silhouette but can not afford high dollar gun.

The H&R unfortunately is not legal for Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette competition. For those who wish to get a start in this sport on a budget, I recommend looking for an 1888 Springfield trapdoor rifle. This is the model with the Buffington rear sight.

You do not need a pristine condition collector's grade rifle. Try to find one with a strong action and a good bore. They can still be found at a reasonable price.

Thank you for the info. I did not know you could not use the H&R.

Hello 1952bkf,

The basic rules for BPCR shooting can be found here :-

http://www.bpcr.net/index-a.htm

Have fun,

Harry

Thank you for the info. I did not know you could not use the H&R.

It is legal for use at Cody Dixon and long range "buffalo" shoots by SASS rules if you change the rear sight from the factory receiver type to a ladder or vernier type. In fact, without really pouring deeply into the BPCR rules, the H&R is in fact legal if you change out the rear sight;

(b) Rear sights will be of vernier or ladder type, typical of the era, either open or peep, mounted on the tang or barrel. No modern style receiver, glass, or tube sight permitted. Front sights must be typical of the era, and may be shaded. No modern or olympic-type sights permitted.


The rifle style itself is indicative of ones that were produced in the 1880's, so if there's another reason it is not allowed by BPCR I'd like to hear why.

Having said that, I have owned 2 H&R Buffalo Classics, with the intention of shooting black powder SASS buffalo Matches, and there is a lot to be said about the heavy Sharps and rolling block type reproductions when you are trying to put a heavy bullet 300+ yards downrange. If you intend to buy one, get yourself a good recoil pad, slip on or attached if they are allowed by the organization you'll be using it at. The H&R is a light rifle and will positively beat your shoulder to death at an extended shooting session.

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
William
New Braunfels, TX

Thank you for the reply. How good did your H&R shoot? What weight bullets did you try?

I was afraid of this. We went through the H&R legality question a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the H&R is not a pre 1896 action, or replica thereof, and is not legal.

You might be permitted to use it at a local club match, where formality is a little more relaxed, but you will always be up against this "legality" question. It would be better to purchase a rifle that you know is legal.

From a more practical standpoint, since most of the shooting is done in prone position, a tilting type action is very akward.

Thank you for the reply. How good did your H&R shoot? What weight bullets did you try?

The standard 350 and 405 grain cast lead bullets, but I did find that the 350 grain jacketed hollow points shot quite well too. I originally wanted to use one rifle for cowboy action buffalo shoots and the other for hunting, so that's why I tried the jacketed bullets. Like I said before, the rifle is on the light side compared to other long range 45-70 rifles, and after taking a beating on day at a match I sold one rifle to a fellow CAS member who, to my knowledge, still owns it but never has used it. Go figure. The other I traded along with some other things for a Marlin 1895 Cowboy in 45-70. It was quite nice and was as capable as the H&R out to 350 yards, plus it weighed a bit more and came with a thin recoil pad. I was just out to take the biggest round I could find out to the range and then into the field to hunt with, and what I discovered is that there just isn't anything big enough in North America that I will ever get to hunt that will stand up to a 45-70 round.

The thing to understand is that while the round can be delivered downrange at 1800 fps, it actually is more accurate and will even penetrate game better at between 1300-1400 fps, closer to the old black powder velocities. Added to that, most of the better long range shooters have already mapped out all the trajectory, wind drift, bullet drop, etc., based on those lower velocities than the shoulder beater rounds.

One other thing to remember is that even though there are several brands of "real" black powder (Gentleman, it's just called gunpowder.) on the market today, each and every one of them is light years ahead of what was available prior to the introduction of "smokeless" powder. To purists, even the mere mention of a substitute is blasphemy, but these powders offer clear advantages over black. Be open minded but don't try to reinvent the wheel.

Lastly, here something you ought to read and think about when shooting long range black powder or BPCR type events.
http://www.levergun.com/articles/bdixon.htm

Good shooting to you.

I was afraid of this. We went through the H&R legality question a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the H&R is not a pre 1896 action, or replica thereof, and is not legal.

You might be permitted to use it at a local club match, where formality is a little more relaxed, but you will always be up against this "legality" question. It would be better to purchase a rifle that you know is legal.

From a more practical standpoint, since most of the shooting is done in prone position, a tilting type action is very akward.

I beg to differ; the H&R is most certainly a replica. Whether or not it is legal in the eyes of one organization or another is another matter all together.
It is legal for use at Cody/Dixon and long range "buffalo" shoots by SASS rules if you change the rear sight from the factory receiver type to a ladder or vernier type.
However, it is quite difficult shooting from a prone position.
There are examples of the H&R "break top" type of action used in the 19th century and while it is not an exact copy of those rifles, it is considered a replica by SASS. See above for legalities of the rear sight. In fact, few, if any modern replicas are 100% faithful to the original design, mostly due to safety issues and modern steel. If it's not legal to use by the rules of the governing body of the particular shooting match you wish to attend, then don't buy it, but it is by far the best bang for your buck if long range black powder cartridge shooting is concerned, with the stated exceptions and/or advice.

Your mileage may vary.

SFT:

You can differ if you wish, however it is not me whom you are "differing" with. I am merely a messinger - I did not make up the rules - nor can I change them.

That being said, there are two "tip up" type rifles that would be legal under the pre 1896 rule; the Maynard, and the Wurfflein. The H&R is not a replica of either.