Error in title, Syracuse Gun Show. Sorry.

I drove 80 miles to the gun show yesterday. The turnout was huge! I arrived 10 minutes before it officially started and stood on line for 40 minutes to get in. It would have been nice to see Obama or Clinton out front reciting the second ammendment and taking note of just how many people were there.

It was a large show and there were some good deals but also a lot of over-priced junk. I guess those guys like to pack the stuff up and take it home when it doesn't sell. One thing I noticed was the sellers were sure proud of their model 99 Savages. The guns that were selling were all new guns. I didn't notice anyone toting a used firearm that didn't have a for sale sign sticking out the barrel.

I went there looking to buy reloading suppliers, especially powder, and found out they discontinued selling powder 2 years ago. So I paid my $6 to get in and spent $6 on some T-10 Torx drivers and a Tasco Magnifier. I didn't touch a single gun!

The one table that was selling reloading supplies was limited to bullets and primers and some sparse die sets, not even any brass. I checked his prices and passed. When I got back I went to the local gun shop and picked up 1000 primers and a value pack of Ballistic Tip bullets for my new Kimber rifle. He has much better prices.

So....I burned half a tank of gas and was entertained for 4 hours.

I've been going to gun shows for years. Sometimes you find a deal. I think it's more of an auction/expectation mentality. Many folks go with the intent to buy, and (I suspect) feel cheated if they don't walk out with something. (My opinion).

Many times have gone to a show and found nothing, made that last stop at a retailer of some kind and found what I needed.

This year went to the first gun show in March in St Paul, MN. It was a circus. The handgun tables and AR tables were very busy. I get the impression people are buying now in case they can't buy later, given todays pilotical climate.

Some of yur observations regarding older used overpriced guns hold true here too.

I'd imagine some it is marked up sginificantly for 2 reasons: One they think they can get it it, 2 they set it higher so they can deal.

The local Gander marks the used firearms up 40%. At first blush this seems kind of high, however if you have to hold onto that paper weight for 2 years, it just cost you 20%. THere's a 10% per year carry cost generally speaking for inventory. This is the cost of money and that )(*&)(*^(*%*&$%&*% tax on inventory.

I go to gun shows for fun, and if I'm lucky find a deal. I've found it is a good way to have discussion with my kid(s) about the different hardware too.

This topic comes up from time to time. Up until tje early '90's, gun shows were a place you could go and find bargains and do trading. Tables cost you $20 for the weekend, or thereabouts, so collectors could afford to come just to show off their collections, and you saw a few older folk who were selling guns they were no longer physically able to take into the field. I remember one widow whose husband had invested in new S&W revolvers rather than conventional retirement savings. She would come to every OGCA show to sell a few of these new-in-box classics for her living expenses. It wasn't a way to get rich, but at least the guns didn't lose any value over time. A few big commercial dealers and quite often gun manufacturer's reps would get tables, but mostly it was private individuals and little guys without store fronts who had FFL's to do some gun dealing as a side business.

With the passing of the Brady Bill and the creation of the NICS database, publicity about the "gun show loophole" drew people to shows like flies and bargain prices and socializing lost priority. Commercial promoters saw an opportunity to make real money in the gun show business. There were other factors, like insurance, but the bottom line was table rates began a rapid climb. I knew a number of people who regularly took tables at shows for $20 just to sell things like empty plastic CCI .22 rimfire boxes for keeping fishing lures in, or a few bottles of some home brew bore cleaner. It really was an excuse to go to the show and hang out. When tables became $40, then $60, they all gave it up. The old folks trying to sell their guns, not knowing whether a sale could be counted on, also stopped coming. They couldn't walk around with a gun, so they and their equipment just vanished. The serious collectors began to drop out when it hit $75 a table for the weekend. Now that its up to several hundred dollars a weekend, pretty much I only see commercial operations. The ten fold increase in FFL fees killed off the part timers, anyway. The bargains are gone because the tables now have to be made to pay for themselves. Specific facility rules, like no powder sales or no live ammunition on the premises have pretty much neutered some shows, even for some of the commercial retailers.

The "gun show loophole" is now largely fictional, since only the few people walking around with for sale signs on their used guns are private sellers; a tiny volume of the sales traffic. The commercial dealers still have to run phone lines for the NICS checks, of course. The shows all have rules about no door sales. They demand you at least pay show admission to be there, plus there was some bad publicity about people dealing out of their cars in gunshow parking lots at one point after the table prices started getting out of hand. The hired off-duty police working security for the shows keep them chased away.

The People's Rights Organization, our state gun rights activist group just had to cancel their March show because the guy they had hired to be their show promoter and operator for several years got into trouble and blew town. He was in deep enough that he actually abandoned his residence, took PA systems and other equipment belonging to the organization and left behind piles of unpaid bills. He had failed to acquire and pay for permits for the canceled show. He ran shows for several other groups in surrounding areas and stiffed them, too. So, it seems the show promoters, traveling around from show to show to see what they can get, have become a kind of gypsy operation now, in more ways than one.

As you may be able to tell, I am pretty much discouraged about and stay away from gun shows these days. Too bad. It was a great place to be, at one time.

There's an annual show in Vermont that I've been to in the last few years. We don't get many, so I figured I'd check this one out. My hope was to find a better-than-average price on something (anything?) that would make me consider buying it. The show is not giant--a basketball auditorium and basement--and is generally filled by dealers from around the state. There are also a fair number of antique dealers (guns, obsolete ammo, paraphernalia, etc), and some fur traders. As for the cost of guns? Really nothing you can't find or beat online. It's almost as if they raise the prices just for having schlepped their wares across the state for the show. Funny thing: I saw the same NIB Steyr pistol being sold by two different vendors, right near each other, with about a $50 difference between them. I would have though they'd be more like competing gas stations and keep it close. Oh well. Now the benefits do include speaking with some nice people, and seeing (and handling) some hardware that you don't come across everyday. But there is little financial incentive to doing business at that kind of show. Now that I'm in Virginia, I'll have to be on the lookout for shows nearby and see what goes on down here...

jonas

Since I just finished this seasons of gun shows as a collector displaying, much of what has been already said I've observed. I'm a life member of the Dakota Territory Gun Collectors Association and have seen many of the mentioned changes over the years. Our association manages and runs there own shows with profits being donated to NRA, 4-H Shooting Sports, Scouts, various conservation groups, various sportsmans clubs and club operation. Table rents are still $25/8 foot table--even as a collector displaying my collection I pay the rent! We still have the social connection among vendors and collectors/members. Everyone is concerned about the rising costs involved in shows and the effects on the bottom line. I still find bargins--but you have to look today because the vendors are more informed and price accordingly. You have to be knowledgable about the items you want concerning there prices. Above all you have to realize the vendors have to make a profit just like main street businesses. We shop around for the best price on our clothes, cars, food everything we consume. Why should it be any different at a gun show. If you think something is overpriced move on--the vendors will figure it out fast when sales aren't made to pay their expenses.