Getting stubborn with my rem 700 vtr in 308. When I seat a bullet hard into the lands and mark the bullet then seat the same bullet to max SAMMI specs there is .215 difference. Am wondering if there is to much bullet jump to get good accuracy? I'm using 40 grs of IMR 4895 behind a 165gr pro hunter. This load is very accurate in another 308 of mine but won't shoot in this one. The gun is floated and bedded.:confused: Thanks Jim I have also tried Three different factory loads and handloads with 130gr,150gr,165gr,and 155gr bullets all with awfull accuracy.

It could be that that particular 700 simply doesn't like that bullet. I've seen that happen to two identical rifles. You might try some different bullets Jim. Factory chambers are usually cut for the longest bullet commercially available and shorter (lighter usually) bullets end up making a jump. Mostly they are pretty accurate for their use (hunting), but may not live up to bench rest expectations.

The normal practice is to establish where the bullet ogive engages the lands (you've done this) and then back off .010" to .020" and see how it shoots. Have to admit, I'm still trying to educate my Model 7 Remington to shoot the 165's with my idea of acceptable accuracy. So far, it has been trying out various powders, primers, bullet brands, seating depths, etc. May be rifle is educating me!

Sorta narrowing it down now, but won't quote any loads, as your and my rifles probably are like oranges and apples for acceptable loads.

This rifle just doesn't seem to like any of the bullets I've tried that list is Nosler partitions in 165 and 150 nosler 165 accubonds,Sieera 150 pro hunters,165 hp gamekings,168 match 155 Palma match,Hornady 150 SST's,165 interlocks,150 interbonds, Barnes 130 TSX and the 150 x bullet. Don't know what else to do except maybe throw the blasted thing away.

On the subject of throats, might wanna see if anyone on here has an older weatherby mark v. I've heard that they used to have a long throat in the 270 and the 300 wby chamberings. But I've never measured one myself.

Most of all early Weatherby's chambering reamers included a 3/8th inch freebore (extended throat). This allowed hot loads to start out with quite a bit less pressure. Accuracy didn't seem to suffer much. The series of Norma magnums such as the 308 Norma were also set up this way. I had one built in the early 60's without the freebore and it was extremely accurate, but so were the ones with freebore.

I just got back from trying it again. It will shoot okay if I only seat the bullets .080 into the neck but then I cannot use the magazine as the COL is 3.172 and they just won't fit. I must have got a dud from them. Kind of frustrating as I sent the first one back as the rear base area on the action was polished too much and it took .025 shims in Burris rings to mount a scope on it.I have tried 4 different scopes on it and nothing. I will be boxing this one up to ship back and get a refund and then I'm going to go and get a Savage.

Most of all early Weatherby's chambering reamers included a 3/8th inch freebore (extended throat). This allowed hot loads to start out with quite a bit less pressure. Accuracy didn't seem to suffer much. The series of Norma magnums such as the 308 Norma were also set up this way. I had one built in the early 60's without the freebore and it was extremely accurate, but so were the ones with freebore.

Hi Bob,

How do you seat bullets to touch the lands with 3/8 inch freebore? :D:D:D So much for the .020 or whatever rule.

.

J you can't and those guns were not designed with that function in mind, they were designed to get maximum velocity and good hunting accuracy, not bench rest accuracy. The freebore seemed to work well and their's lots of Weatherby's out there shooting well.

Jim you could contact Remington and discuss your problem and they might or might not help you out. I know that from several conversations I had with the several years ago if the rifle shoots less than 3 inch groups it falls within their "normal" parameters. Since then they have had some new management so you may fare better. You never know til you try.

I know that when I ran my shop every once in a while I'd run across a 700 that I simply couldn't get to shoot anything well. It would deliver acceptable hunting accuracy, but just not be a great shooter. Same with Remington triggers. Most were amendable to adjustment, but every once in a while I'd get one that just wouldn't adjust.

It was then time to replace a trigger or a barrel with an aftermarket version. This seemed to be a 99 percent cure for the problem, though more expense for the owner. This scenario just doesn't happen to Remingtons though, Rugers, Winchesters and Savages and others can suffer the same fate.

I just got back from trying it again. It will shoot okay if I only seat the bullets .080 into the neck but then I cannot use the magazine as the COL is 3.172 and they just won't fit. I must have got a dud from them. Kind of frustrating as I sent the first one back as the rear base area on the action was polished too much and it took .025 shims in Burris rings to mount a scope on it.I have tried 4 different scopes on it and nothing. I will be boxing this one up to ship back and get a refund and then I'm going to go and get a Savage.

Jim,

I'm guessing your 308 has a 1 in 12" barrel twist - So you can't go too far up in bullet weight. But before throwing it away, try loading the 180 Round Nose CoreLoks to the maximum OL your magazine will allow. You may just find an acorn!

Good Luck

Ray that's the only bullet I don't have on my bench but I'll get a box and try them. What the heck I've tried all the other ideas that came to mind so another try won't hurt. Thanks Jim

I have a 300mag that won't shoot anything but Sierra 180 pro hunters (flat base). It is a 1moa gun with those but a 2 or more incher with everything else I have tried (quite a few different bullets). I imagine it would shoot 200s well but since it is a short mag 180 is the most I can use without taking up too much case capacity. I feel about the same regarding case capacity using 18os in a 308 case unless it is a pure target gun. My 300mag is a hunting gun.

Sounds as f you may have a bad barrel. I have a Winchester 6.5x55 with a LOT of freebore & load long for it. It is one of the most accurate guns I have ever owned.

OK, Jim - Trying to help you out.

My Remington M7 seems to like this load the best:

150 gr Hornady SST (COAL = 2.285" - 2.286")
45.0 gr Hodgdon Varget
CCI BR2 primer
Federal Gold Medal Match case

Not sure what the fps is, as I haven't run the load across the screens yet. These loads will cycle through the magazine with a comfortable clearnace to assure proper feeding. The cases were full length resized (fired from another rifle), trimmed to minimum, deburred and chamfered, flashhole deburred and then neck sized for all further shooting. So far after 4 reloads they have grown only .002".

Not saying this will work as well in your rifle, but at least it may be a start point. Best of luck.

Sorry I missed this one. I have a Howa M&P .308 that has a long throat. I was a little frustrated w/ it's performance, for about 10 rounds. Then I thought M&P! Try military 7.62x51. Guess what, it turned into a tack driver w/ IMI (Israeli) ammo. I now use Military brass to reload and don't trim as far. I use IMR 4320 and 4064 to load 165..168 and 150 respectively. Just a thought. Jim

All this illustrates why I gave up trying to even find the lands.

My method is to load to the SAAMI maximum OAL or the maximum that the magazine will feed. Then experiment with seating deeper in small increments to see if there is an accuracy "sweet spot." If there is, I seat them all to that depth and call it good. If not, I go back to the maximum magazine length and call THAT good.

Except in the very rare instance that the throat is cut too short to accommodate a cartridge loaded to magazine length, I never know how far off the lands I am - and don't care. Keep it simple.

Make sure the bullets are seated straight in the cases, otherwise that is going to aggravate things.

You never know. My .338 (and .458) both have/had very long throats, but were very accurate with just about any bullet weight.

Worst case of to much freebore that I can think of is a scattergun with a screw-in rifled tube at the end. I have one. Five shots were enough to make me give up messing with it.

The problem may/may not have to do with freebore. Target picture with bead sights was what stopped my experimenting with it.

Perhaps someday, I might re-investigate that with better sights for the purpose?

Cheezywan

The screw in rifled tubes for shotguns have too much twist and are not well suited to accuracy. The H&H Paradox guns were rifled in the loast inch ot so and were rather Accurate.
If freebore is cut no larger than bore diameter it will not effect accuracy negatively. I have custom rifles that are set up with free bore that shoot under .5 MOA. My 338 Laupa has .100 inch freebore and it shot a .8" 3 shot group at 300 yards.
The problem with freebore in factory rifles is the slopy reamer job and the free bore is over bore diameter..

The new Ruger 204's are all cut with a long throat and they are delivering exceptional accuracy. Rocky pretty much sums up my loading technique in post #15 above.

The new Ruger 204's are all cut with a long throat and they are delivering exceptional accuracy. Rocky pretty much sums up my loading technique in post #15 above.


I agree.. I donot care how close or far from the lands that my bullet is, I only care about the accuracy that I can get and I seat all hunting loads to fit the magazine and function properly through the rifle

i would load any that would give decent accuracy but unfortunately this rifle just won't shoot. It seems a shame that a company that boasts on accuracy can put out this kind of product. I put it off to side to become a donor action because the stock and barrel are junk. And that will be the last Remington that I will buy.

Update on my Rem VTR my dealer has offered to take it back for what I paid for it and is going to let me put the money towards anther gun in stock. He just got a sweet looking DPMS in 6.5 creedmore so I took that instead. Happy shooting to all and thanks for the advice.

I hate to tell you this Jim, but Remington owns DPMS. Sure hope you have better luck with the 6.5 creedmore.

Most of all early Weatherby's chambering reamers included a 3/8th inch freebore (extended throat). This allowed hot loads to start out with quite a bit less pressure. Accuracy didn't seem to suffer much. The series of Norma magnums such as the 308 Norma were also set up this way. I had one built in the early 60's without the freebore and it was extremely accurate, but so were the ones with freebore.

All of my Weatherbys have freebore that measures close to 3/8-1/2 inch,and they are all just as accurate,if not more so,than my rifles that don't have freebore.
The reason for the freebore was so that Roy Weatherby could get the most out of each of his cartridges with the most efficient use of the available expansion ratio.
MagnumManiac

The DPMS shoots alot better than that VTR at least I don't have to hang my head at the range when I shoot with other people around. That other one shot groups that people point and giggle at at.

I have a 300 Mag chambered in a 700 Sendero. When I started to work up loads for this gun I was making myself crazy. The darn thing just would not shoot better than a 4 inch group at 100 yards. I changed everything concerning my reloads that you can think of. Finally I contacted a gunsmith and he gave the gun a good going over. He discovered when the throat was cut off center by about .002 inch and there were remnants of the rifling on one side of the throat. He told me he used a tight fitting reamer and removed the remnants. Granted the throat is still about .002 inches of center but I now seat the bullts out to about .01 inch off the lands and it now will shoot a consistent 1 inch group at 100 yds. Not bench rest accuracy but darn accurate enough for elk, moose, etc.

i've gotta echo rocky's opinion on this one. my 280 is loaded to suit the magazine length and it is a tackdriver. i know that there has to be at least .200" jump to the lands but it doesn't seem to matter. hang in there, you'll get it.