Okay, this has been bothering me for a while now. Why do people/manufacturers insist on calling Glocks, Sprindfield XDs, and S&W M&P/Sigmas Double action only? They are single action only. Every true double action I've seen operates the hammer on the trigger pull as well, like many Berettas and Double action revolvers. Am I missing something?

I believe in the vernacular [lol] of what these guns are being called these days, they, meaning the sigma, glock, xd, and the M&P are referred to as striker fired...
DOA, not in the true sense, I agree with you there.

Now when I think single action, I conjure up thoughts of:
Single action army Colts
The Venrable 1911a1
The Browning Hi-power
and the endless copies there-of.

DAO, well that to me is a revolver that cannot be brought to single-action-cocked.
-or an auto that operated in the same fashion.
But here lies the conundrummmmmmmm...
the XD, Smiths Glocks and the like must be cocked, or you could tug on the trigger till it fell off......

So I choose to refer to them as the plastic fantastic.

Now here's where it can get really crazy.....

The Walther P99 series, a striker fired weapon, can be fired exactly like the plastic fantastic...
or the DAO's
or in true single action......

but all without a hammer.....

confused, me too. As long as I can hit with it, and it is trusty enuff to go bang when I need it to.....well there you have it.

Quite simply, I think the confusion arises because the pull "feels" like a double action pull rather than a single action pull when compared to revolvers and single/double autos. This had to be done for safety reasons because many of the pistols involved have no deliberately, manually-operated external safety but often need to be carried with a round ready to go.

Technically, as long as a trigger pull cannot cock the firing mechanism on it's own, the firearm is single action, but most people don't know that, or even care.

Technically, as long as a trigger pull cannot cock the firing mechanism on it's own, the firearm is single action, but most people don't know that, or even care.

This is true, but is kind of a gray area with most of the striker fired pistols. With many of them, Glocks included, the trigger pull does cock the firing mechanism, but it has to be partially cocked to start with. The trigger pull does force the striker to the rear, before allowing it to move forward, so technically that is a double action. This less pronounced in Glocks than in some others; the Kahr series uses a noticeably longer pull to cock the firing mechanism.

I agree though that with a "true" double action, you should be able to pull the trigger repeatedly on an empty chamber, and the striker/hammer should fall each time. Most of the striker fired guns only work the first time. Note that Glock refers to their pistols as "Safe Action", I don't remember seeing any Glock literature that calls them DAO.

Also note that not all striker fired guns use a double action type trigger. The HiPoint/Lorcin/Jennings/Davis guns all use a single action striker fired mechanism, where all the trigger does is release the striker, with no perceptible rearward travel (of the striker) before release.

I tend to refer to them as "one-and-a-half action" myself.

i agree - should be called "striker" fired not DA or SA right?

Well, it is kind of double action. Unless I am mistaken, the striker does not stay in the the full coked position. It is half-coked by the shot/rack and then the trigger pull completes the cocking prior to it being fired.

Again, that what I always thought, I might be wrong.

Bust based on that and the fact that a pull of the trigger is needed to fully cock the weapon and then fire it, it is definitely not single action and there is no way to manually cock it, so it could be considered DAO....

But striker fired is definitely a more descriptive and accurate term.

I know that the S&W pistols are completely cocked by the operation of the slide, the trigger does not cock the striker at all. The trigger pull is the same weight whether the pistol is cocked or not.

I'm still going with single action.

zthang is correct in his description of how these pistols work. I prefer the description "striker fired" myself, since single action or double action are actually terms that I believe were developed for the revolver and their application to modern striker-fired pistols stretches their initial definitions.

In some ways striker-fired pistols resemble double-action revolvers (the trigger pull may assist in cocking the action) and in some ways they resemble single action revolvers (repeatedly pulling the trigger does not repeatedly cock and fire the action).

I guess we have to accept them for what they are, something new. Any application of old terms may result in confusion, but I don't think it matters much as long as we know how the pistols operate.

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notice that the striker returns to the half coked potion after it is shot. This would be accomplished by racking the slide or by shooting the gun.

I like the "one-and-a-half" action description, that fits well for Glocks, Kahrs, and some others (maybe the S&W Sigma series?).
Mattsbox99, I don't know much about the newer S&W guns (assume you're talking about M&P series?) but assuming your description is correct, that would just be a single action, as you said.

I've heard gun shop owners/employees contribute to the confusion by saying "It's not DA or SA, it's striker fired." This is misleading, because being striker fired does not dictate whether the gun is single action or double action (or "one-and-a-half" action). A striker fired gun can be any of those, just like a hammer fired gun.

If the trigger causes the striker OR hammer to move rearward before release, it's technically double action. If it only releases with little or no rearward movement, it's single action.

I've heard gun shop owners/employees contribute to the confusion by saying "It's not DA or SA, it's striker fired." This is misleading, because being striker fired does not dictate whether the gun is single action or double action (or "one-and-a-half" action). A striker fired gun can be any of those, just like a hammer fired gun.

On the other hand, calling it striker-fired is accurate. If the customer is well-educated, he/she may already know whether a particular pistol is SA, DA, or 1.5A. But there are a lot of customers who don't know or care about those terms. All they really want to know is "Is it going to go off every time I pull the trigger?" and "What do I do if if it doesn't go off? Can I just squeeze the trigger again, or do I need work the slide?" Those questions can be quickly and easily answered without knowing the first thing about the intricacies of 1.5A guns.

I think the only people who are confused about such things are us gun-nuts, sometimes!

I guess its just something to put in the 'action type' column for manufacturers. The vast majority of people that I run across don't really know anything about guns, but then again, there are many things I don't know about guns either.

Like me. I'm more confused now that I was before.:o

i just kinda wonder how many more forum members ,,like me didn t ask this question..
cause we spose to know this here stuff or wees amatures..
:):) thanks 99 im a little less confused about the difference now.