Well, as my spare time permits, I have been working on trying to find an accurate load for my pre-64 M70 264 Win Mag Westerner. The good is that I have found a load that looks pretty promising--58 grains of 7828SSC, 140 gr Hornady Spire Point, and a CCI Magnum primer. Right now it's putting 3 shot groups into 5/8" at 100 yards.

Now for the frustrating. I started out with this gun by buying a few boxes of the Remington 140 grain factory loads, so that I could shoot it and get things roughed in, and then have once-fired brass to work with for reloading. I picked up Redding's 3-die set, so I'd get FL, NK, and ST dies in one shot. Even after firing the factory loads, I noticed that now and then I'd get a case that would rub a little brass on the bolt face and be a little snug to get out or back in to the chamber. I separated these out and worked with the ones that did not, just neck sizing and reloading. I just got through a second round of shooting/reloading the cases and now some were very tight--I can still get them out and in, but you're giving the bolt a dose of muscle. So, I neck sized them again, double-checking all of the dimensions that it would change--they were all within spec. So, I pulled out the FL die, set it against the shellholder and ran a few through. All dimensions were OK, but they were still tight.

Next, I taped over the air holes on my propane torch and blacked up a case with the sooty flame, and forced it into the chamber. I pulled it out, and the shoulder was rubbed completely bare. I rechecked the dimension to the shoulder again--the die is putting it right where it's to be. And, to verify it all, I cut the case off right below the shoulder and chambered the remainder of the case--the bolt pretty much fell closed, no resistance from anything else on the case.

So, I measured up one of the unfired Remington loads I had left, and sure enough, the shoulder is set back several thousandths more than the spec'd or my resized dimensions.

I know the intention for the belted cases is that they headspace on the belt, and I also have read that accuracy (and probably case life, I'd guess) improves if you can get them to headspace on the shoulder. I'm all for headspacing mine on the shoulder, if these issues are true.

I really don't want to mess with the factory original state of the gun, especially since it looks like it will end up shooting respectably. So, if I'm thinking right, I need to get a custom die made if I have any intention of reloading and using these cases beyond a couple firings, regardless of where it headspaces, since I can’t push that shoulder back any farther than spec’d with the dies that I have. Even if I ground down the shellholder to theoretically be able to push the case in farther, there’s a counterbore in the die that will stop it on the belt, keeping it from going into the die more.

Has anyone else run into this? And, am I thinking right about all of this? It seems to me that the dies are OK, as they put the case to specs, it seems more like the gun’s chamber is a little tight from the factory.

Thanks for any input.

Dan

I'd first check to see that your sizing die is set up in the press per directions. It's all the way down to the shell holder and perhaps a little more to take out any spring in your press.

All my magnums are set up to headspace on the shoulder, but I full length size cases for big game rifles. Out hunting is not the place you want to discover you have a case that chambers hard. I do neck size the varmint rounds for optimum case life.

You shouldn't need a set of custom dies for a factory chamber. If your sizing die is set up correctly it should size back to factory specs. I'd sure give Redding a call and see if their tech could walk you thru your problem.

Agree with Bob - you need to tighten your FL die down so there is no slop in the handle when seating. A very slight bump with the handle should be felt. This assures a very slight "bump" on the case shoulder as well.

The only belted case I reload for anymore is the 7 RM and have the cases neck sized to headspace on both the belt and shoulder. This provides more positive alignment with the bore (considering properly aligned chamber) and also, requires a bit of chambering effort because of the extended shoulder when compared to the factory ammo. The cases will get FL sized when it takes more than a slight bit of effort to chamber.

Watch your case OAL and make sure you're not exceeding maximum length. The first firing of a belted case is just like a rimmed case - lots of case growth. Trim them back to minimum AFTER neck sizing or FL sizing.

Well, I finally got them in line. OAL was fine, they were a few thousandths below the max, but I trimmed them back anyways after sizing and before test fitting them in the gun. When I did have the die set to contact the shellholder, it was set to be tight and cam a bit on the full upstroke. I guess for the sizing I had to do, having the die anywhere but in this position was actually a waste of effort.

What I found I had to do was run the cases into the FL die 2-3 times before they'd come out to a dimension that allowed the bolt to close with no tightness. Funny thing is, I couldn't even measure a difference in any of the dimensions with my calipers. Evidently it truly was just a touch too long to the shoulder. Redding's instructions claim that the Neck die will bump the shoulder if it's out of spec, but I could only get what I needed with the FL die. So, it looks like I might have to hit 'em with the FL every few firings.

I never had anything be that tough to size like that, but the other calibers I load for, 220 Swift, 25-06, 270, 30-06, 308, don't have a shoulder that steep, so maybe that's part of it--dunno. Getting this 264 was a vast departure for me, to say the least.

On the bright side, I can say I learned something today anyways. Thanks for the input guys. Well, now I have to wait another week before I have time to get to the range again.

If you have a way to hold either your sizing die's base OR the top of your shell holder on a surface grinder or smooth sanding belt you can take .001-.002" off either part & get your shoulders to bump back where you need them to be. Most folks recommend taking it off the shell holder. I have done both but the shell holder is cheaper to replace if you bugger one up. Take your time & you won't have to worry about it.

Running the cases into the die 2-3 times is going to really work harden them. Watch for neck splitting. If you don't already, anneal the neck/shoulder every 4th firing to keep the brass as soft as it can be.

Always work on the cheaper part if you have a choice..a couple of 1,000ths off the top of the shell holder will have the effect (once the dies are adjusted down) of running the case in a touch more. In your case, certainly won't take much...a few minutes by hand on a wet stone should do the trick just fine.

"Double pumping" doesn't have to take much time...all you really have to do is size...draw back 1"...spin the case...and size that last 1" again.

Ribbonstone, M70: I was considering trying that with the shellholder, as it is far cheaper to work with. I'll probably pick another one up before this situation comes up again. Potentially, if I did hone one a little, I'd be able to bump the shoulder with the neck sizer and avoid working the whole case with the FL die. Hitting them 2-3 times indeed didn't take much time, because I was doing like you said, and backing it out just what it needed.

Matt: There were a few cases that I could feel were a bit hard while I was trimming them yesterday, so I'll probably anneal them.

Have found over the years that Lyman shell holders are a little "thinner" at the top. Might just find that switching to a Lyman and adjusting the die down that tiny fraction of an inch does the trick.

Never really got to play with the .264WM...had intentions, but chambered that single shot in 6.5RM with a long throat with intentions of re-doing that long barrel in .264WM after the 6.5Rm dissapointed me.....it never did, so I never go around to changing. But had the same problem with that 6.5RM as you have...pluse it was built on a Ruger #3 action that doesn't have a lot of cam-action in loading. Had to get them set just right...a little resistance just as the action closed...to get good case life.

Thanks for the tip, ribbonstone. I'll pick up a Lyman shellholder and see if that's enough to do the trick.

Call Redding (607)752-331 or E-mail: techline@redding-reloading.comand and tell them about your problem. They will wont to know when some one is having a problem with their equipment. I to have a Wim Mdl 70 264 Win and have not have a problem with neck sizeing the cases. I have also reloaded belted 7 MM Rem Mag, 308 Norma Mag, and 340 Weatherby Mag cases with out a problem.----What ft/sec velocity are you getting with the 140 Gr bullet reload?

Another thing, before you start grinding on your equipment / dies.... try putting a very thin feeler gage between the shellholder and the case head. If sizing with that solves the problem, you can then decide what to adjust / modify.

When forming some cases, I have had to do this. Once they're formed, not a problem anymore (so check with some that have been fired several times and see if the step is needed down the line, and if so, how often).

Hi,
I've been reloading Remington unfired, once fired and also twice fired cases of 6.5 Remington Magnum that I use in a Arizaka T38 rechambered to that cartridge with ZERO problems. I 've been using a set of Lee dies and a set of RCBS dies. Why don't you try them? A set of magnum gauges will be helpful too..
KHAN

I have not had this problemwith the .264 unless using my somewhat hot handloads.I have loaded for my brother's pre 64 Win Model 70, 264 Westerner,his cases will not fit in my Remington CDL or Ruger .264 Win Mags,even after full length resizing.I have loaded for 2 different .300 Win Mags and 2, 7MM Rem Mags.I always partial resize mine and about every third loading full length resize if neccessary.I usually get 8 to 10 reloads on cases.