ok for lack of any goals im gonna go for 1 inch groups at 300yds..
at 2 hundred my reloads were good hunting hits but not good groups ..so i put my reloads [i didn t loadum]
away and took some 165 fusions out to the range..long story short i found that some of my erratic hits weren t me mabe .. twice i shot groups of three that were right on each other .. i ll call it 1 inch groups.. im gonna continue to work at 200 for now ,,but if i get that dn so i can say i own it ..im going out to 250 an then 300yds..
but i can t see my hits except on the exploding targets now.. id like an cheap telescope at least 15 or 20 power ,,that would be clear enough to see hits at that range on paper..
no i don t have the mon for 1st class optics.. but ive sold cheap telescopes at flea markets that would do.. i just did nt have any use for them at the time..
man if i can get to good groups at three hundred yds ,,i ll call my self a pretty good shot ..
which i dont now.. a fello was telling me about 600 yd hits on quarter size targets the other day ..he said the drop for either 6 or 7 hundred was 38 inches with his 338..
said he could do it most every time..something i kinda have to see. but im sure some can do it.. any way i need a cheap telescope so anybody know where i might get one.thanks

Slim I bought a 20 by 60 folded optics spotting scope from Harbor Freight for 60 bucks. I wouldn't use this as big game spotting scope because it has a fairly small field of view, but it makes a dandy scope for spotting on the range and 60 power is enough to see bullet holes at 300 yards. you can google Harbor freight and go to their web site.

I picked up an inexpensive tripod at the local thrift shop for 5 bucks. You have to have it mounted on a tripod to use the higher powers. It has plenty good optics for a range spotter.

"a fello was telling me about 600 yd hits on quarter size targets the other day ..he said the drop for either 6 or 7 hundred was 38 inches with his 338.." sounds like escaping hot gasses to me!

Mike Venterino (sp?) has a classic statement for folks bragging about 1" groups or less past 200 yds. Says he puts a $100 bill on the bench and offers it to anyone who can shoot a 5 shot 1" group at 300 yds or more. Catch is, the shooter has to pay him $1 for every group over 1". So far, he hasn't had any takers! :p

Years ago I had a heavy benchrest gun in 222 that would consistently do .35's at a hundred and .75's at 200 on a calm day. Never shot it for groups past that, but did win a few matches with it. It doesn't take much wind to open up groups at 300 yards and I don't think I'd take that bet even with that gun.

The new sleeved bench rest actions came along and made that solid bottomed Mauser actioned Heart barreled gun obsolete. I put a varmiter stock on it and retired it to a ground squirrel gun with one of the old 6 by 24 B&L scopes on it. It was dandy at making head shots on ground squirrels out to 200 yards.

Folks doing shooting quarters with a 338 win mag at 300 yards would sure draw my attention, course all those half inch and quarter inch groups seem to show up on the internet and at bull sessions all the time. I'm not on the range as much as kdub, but I sure don't see it when I watch folks shooting on my range.

and this one is talking 600 yds. which does'nt bother me. the one about "38 inch drop at 6 OR 700 yds. with a 338" is what has me rolling my eyes.

Yeah, I am going to call bull on that 600 yard quarter group, I'll believe it when I see it

Braggen an dooen is two different things.

Mike Venterino (sp?) has a classic statement for folks bragging about 1" groups or less past 200 yds. Says he puts a $100 bill on the bench and offers it to anyone who can shoot a 5 shot 1" group at 300 yds or more. Catch is, the shooter has to pay him $1 for every group over 1". So far, he hasn't had any takers! :p



Apparently he hasn't approached the right shooter..

I would have paid Mike here;

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/11-5-2005-300-Win-Mag-300-yards-8.jpg


Mike would have paid me here and these groups were shot back to back


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/11-5-2005-300-Win-Mag-groups300-yar.jpg


Not easy, but doable.

Slim if you want to get 1" groups at 300 yards cheap is not the way to go IMHO

I agree with JWP.

I may not know as much about shooting as, well, everyone here, but i'd think that the further out you want to reach, or the more preformance you need, the less you can "cheap out" on equipment.
If you're just shooting targets/varmints at 75 yards in bright daylight, you can probably manage with a $90 tasco scope and $200 gun in .22lr. And those are great, fun and cheap, you can break clays or balloons or whatever all day, cheaply with no worrying about cost, or wear on the gun. When i'm sighting in i bring a rimfire with me to kill time while the barrel cools.

However, reaching out further, you need better and better stuff. If i was shooting 1000 yard competition, for instance, i'd probably get a S&B PMII 5-25x56 scope, and a fully customised rifle in 6mm BR. That would not be cheap. But it'd work. and work well. Sure, you could get any rifle, any scope, point at the target and possibly hit it, but why make it harder than it should be? shooting is more fun when the one thing stopping a direct bullseye is you, because you cant blame the rifle, only yourself. Which means you can get better, without thinking "was that me or my gear?"

slightly off topic, prehaps...

_Kar

I shot those groups with a 3.5X15X50 NXS scope and the thin reticle is a major contributor to small groups at distance

This the Reticle that I use

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/NPR-255X22-1.gif

A Duples reticle are any of the knock off's cover to much of your aiming point and while you may get a small group at distance they will not be as consistent as a thiner reticle.

i found a 30 power rebuilt scope on harbor frt.. 40 buck ,i think..its an internet only
deal ,so i couldn t check it out to see if its clear enough fo seeing 06 hits..
i know you guys are right about the further you go out the more you gotta spend..
im shooting an savage 110 w simmons .. and fusion 165s right now..
ive probably got no more than 2000 . in all my guns now .[except some old family stuff that stays]
guess i ll mabe convert some dont needs like the p225 sig and 30 30 w red dot
into optics .. right now im good at 200 one day and not the next.. when i get the 200 dn.
ill probably look at my options..
mike at gods country is the best shot around here.. altho he doesn t compete any more..
he seems to think i might be able to go on out to 300..he hates for me to break up a combination that can shoot tight groups at 200yds.. this from a guy who sells the stuff..
but my eyes are not young so we ll see..what ever it takes tho.. thanks for the input..
ps. the 600 yd quater size target talk,, was taken by me w a grn of salt.. he was serious ,,but id have to see it..a man can talk it pretty easy but the walk is another thing. slim

Successfully shooting small targets at long range is a function of an accurate rifle, consistant high quality ammunition, clear solidly constructed optics, and a shooter that is capable. Consistantly shooting anything small at over 500 meters requires this combination.

Buying an expensive rifle does not guarantee success. Almost all off the shelf rifles require some fine tuning and many require major tweeking to accurately perform. Some never will...but cost is seldom a reliable metric unless you are buying a custom firearm.

Most off the shelf ammo is a compromise. Buying match ammo helps but to be most successful you will probably need to load your own or buy some of the excellent varmint speciality loads.

Optics are an area where you will get in trouble quickly. Buy the brightest scope you can afford. Be sure to get one with an adjustable objective lens and a fine or MILDOT reticle. Make sure you have the scope set up right...you should be able to mount the rifle with your eyes closed and when you open them there should be no shadow....if you have one, then adjust the scope standoff from your eye not your eye to the scope.

BTW...to learn a bit more about what is possible, you might visit the Horus vision site....not everyones cup of tea but a good educational resource.

Shooter...nothing replaces shooting...get a first quality .22 with an adult scope either similar to or identical to the one you are using and shoot it and tune it until you can hit .12 guage shotgun shells consistantly at 100meters. This will require that you do all the same basic things as with the center fire....setup to technique......and shooting the rimfire is every bit as much a challange. Shoot a brick to every box of centerfire you shoot and strive for accuracy. Now.....22 headspaces on the rim, so get some high quality ammo...avoid the promotional stuff as the rim thickness is all over the place and this will widen your groups. My rifles are cut to .042...this works well premium solids.

went dn today to test some other i have against the fusion..kinda hard to be fair withum tho as my sporting barrel starts moving after 5 shots..oh well guess i oughta be satisfied that ive got a rnd that will group at 200. i once fixed my 243 rem so it would hold up to 10 shots at a hundred with that tubbs barrel in a box.. before i did that the rem started walkin after 4-5 shots in a big way.. after that the 10th shot was gonna be where the 1st was.. but they dont sell it in 30 06 that i can find.. good shooting to you fellas
edit next day.. another 2 hole 3 shot group at 200..yall jus gonna have to excuse an old man brags..much better than i shot before.. but gotta give credit where it ... new well made sand bags and 165 fusion ammo..kinda makes u day huh.:):)

thanks for the input about reticle ,brightness ans such.. it will help when[and if] i change..
.. i had a sightron on the rem ,i sold that let more light in but reticle was solid..
im thinking i ll have to go mabe12- 15 power or so for 300.. we ll see.. thanks again..
by the way if anyone wants them.... wallys world has 12 power binocs on sale 15 buck..
they work but you need a steady free hand,,, which most times i dont have..
and oh yes made in china..as if you didn t know..