Ok my my S&W 25 isn't a Ruger Black Hawk. Reading the post on S&W 625 Mountain gun they say keep the loads at no more then a 1,000 fps. So today shooting 3 loads. !st one 23.5 grs of H110 behind a 270gr Cast. MV of about 1100 FPS. Kicks hard ( Too hard). 2nd load was 21.2grs of H110 behind same bullet for a MV of 975 FPS Less recoil . 3rd load was 13.5 grs of Blue Dot same bullet for a MV of 895 FPS. I know my 1st load is too hot but what about my 2nd load? Why am I loading these so hot? I enjoy hiking in the National forest where Black Bears and Mountain Lions roam. My 44 Magnum is an 8" Colt Anaconda its big and bulky.This S&W 25 is a 6" very comfortable.

Anything above 900 FPS is too much... thats according to Sierra and Nosler reloading manuals. I don't think the Smith is weak, but its not nearly as strong as the Ruger. Stick to the Colt SAA reloading section.

I would stay with the H-110 load and stay at 22 to 21 grains.

Just for fun.

Measure the thickness of the cylinder at the thinnest (outermost) point of the chamber.
Measure the depth of the locking notch.
Subtract the depth of the notch from the thickness...which is how much steel is between air and the brass case.

S&W makes those bolt notches more shallow in the .45lc. than they do on other N-frames. Have been some attempts to convert older N-frames (like old 38/44 "Heavy Duty" .38's) to .45colt that ended up with brass peeking out from the bottom of the locking notches (one of Nonte's books had a couple of pictures of that).

The old 25's were worse about that...some of the recent changes have strengthened the system a bit, but that bolt notch over the thinnest part of the cylinder is still the weak link.

They usually don't burst. What seems to happen if you push too hard is that suddenly you'll have to beat the cylinder rod to get the cases to eject....and notice a bright "streak" on the side of one case...and if you look carefully, will see a "dent" in the chamber right at one of the bolt notches.

I think you'll find a 270 grain cast at 900 fps all you will ever need for a cougar or black bear. There not really that hard to kill. Loading the 25 hot like your doing will eventually shoot it to death. I've never understood why folks would buy a nice gun designed to shoot standard loads then try to make it a magnum.

I carry a Taurus 34 ounce four inch 41 mag Tracker as a woods gun and they make it in 44 magnum. I'd sure suggest you get something like that rather than subject a beautiful 25 to the loads your talking about. Even the 25 is to heavy to carry in a hip holster. I carried a Smith 29 in Alaska for five years and it wasn't comfortable unless in a shoulder holster.

Over the years I've had half a dozen 25's thru the shop that had been shot with hot loads enough that they had more end play than could be fixed. Heck I've got a 29 that competed in metal target competition for a bunch of years that after three sets of innards and two barrels has just plain been shot to death and is unfixable. Do your 25 a favor and shoot nice factory velocity loads in it. I'd bet a black bear or cougar wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that big 45 slug and a 240 grain cast 44 mag slug.

<CENTER>The following loads show pressure for the 45 Colt </CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>BULLET</TD><TD>POWDER </TD><TD>GRAINS</TD><TD>VELOCITY</TD><TD>CUP</TD></TR><TR><TD>260 GR. LEAD SWC</TD><TD>H-110</TD><TD>27 </TD><TD>1459 FPS</TD><TD>30,600</TD></TR><TR><TD>260 GR. LEAD SWC</TD><TD>H-4227</TD><TD>26 </TD><TD>1377 FPS </TD><TD>30,600</TD></TR><TR><TD>260 GR. LEAD SWC</TD><TD># 2400</TD><TD>20.5</TD><TD>1294 FPS</TD><TD>29,800</TD></TR><TR><TD>260 GR. LEAD SWC</TD><TD>HS-6 </TD><TD>16</TD><TD>1259 FPS</TD><TD>30,800</TD></TR><TR><TD>260 GR. LEAD SWC</TD><TD>UNIQUE </TD><TD>12</TD><TD>1199 FPS</TD><TD>30,000</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 GR LEAD SWC</TD><TD>H-l10 </TD><TD>23 </TD><TD>1330 FPS </TD><TD>30,000</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 GR LEAD SWC</TD><TD>H-4227</TD><TD>23 </TD><TD>1176 FPS</TD><TD>29,400</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 GR LEAD SWC</TD><TD># 2400</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>1172 FPS</TD><TD>29,400 </TD></TR><TR><TD>310 GR LEAD SWC</TD><TD>HS-6</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>1119 FPS</TD><TD>30,400</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 GR LEAD SWC</TD><TD>UNIQUE </TD><TD>11 </TD><TD>998 FPS</TD><TD>29,200</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>

The complete article by John Linebaugh, http://www.johnlinebaugh.net/


Judging from these loads I would guess that your top load of H-110 is in the 20 to 25 thousnad PSI range.

More data for the 45 Colt


<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=5>Starting Loads
</TD><TD colSpan=4>Maximum Loads
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Bullet </TD><TD>Powder </TD><TD>Grs.</TD><TD>Vel. </TD><TD>CUP</TD><TD>Powder </TD><TD>Grs. </TD><TD>Vel. </TD><TD>CUP</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 cast </TD><TD>H-110</TD><TD>21.5</TD><TD>1109</TD><TD>24,400</TD><TD>H-110</TD><TD>23.5</TD><TD>1316</TD><TD>32,000</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 cast </TD><TD>H 4227</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>1016</TD><TD>24.900</TD><TD>H 4227</TD><TD>22.5</TD><TD>1164</TD><TD>30,000</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 cast</TD><TD>#2400</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>1013</TD><TD>24.400</TD><TD>#2400</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>1172</TD><TD>29,400</TD></TR><TR><TD>310 cast</TD><TD>HS-6</TD><TD>12.5</TD><TD>994</TD><TD>25.000</TD><TD>HS-6</TD><TD>13.5</TD><TD>1043</TD><TD>29,800</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


From here,

http://www.johnlinebaugh.net/

Re-read ribbonstone and faucettb. A 250-270gr bullet at 850-900fps will do everything that you need and not destroy a fine gun.

One can also shoot a bit faster than that and not destroy the gun as well. I believe that he wanted to know if his loads were safe and IMHO they are safe and will not destroy his M-25

More info on loads for the 45 Colt

http://www.johnlinebaugh.net/

When all else fails, listen the the maker's recommendation.

I've shot some 255gr. SWCs, at about 1,050fps, through a smith.

Whether or not it was all the gun would take, it sure was all I wanted. Those loads were/are a pussycat in my Rugers, and just beat my hand to death with the Smith.

FYI, you can get that performance right at, or perhaps just a smidgen above SAAMI specs for the .45 Colt. Frankly, if that won't get the job done - perhaps need to step up to a 12 ga. pump shotgun, with slugs.

My advice.

Mike G
You got it! I'd back those 255gr down to 900-950 and he'd still have what he's worried about covered! Those S&W don't like to be hot rodded!!

I'm a large boned Iron worker so I'm use to working my hands and those loads I loaded for my S&W25-5 kicks hard. In fact too hard for enjoyment. This is my 30 yard gun. I can get 50% in the black at 50 yards and all in the 9 ring at 30 yards. With my Colt Anaconda I can get most in the black and a few in the 10 ring at 50 yards. So I've learned my lesson,plus this hand gun was a gift from a very fine friend.

What type of grips do you have on the M25?

I'm using Houge grips. I like how they feel. Pacmeyer unless they came out with some thing different lately doesn't work for me.

I have a set of Hogues for my M-29 and a set for my M-57, they are narrow and dig into the web of your hand and that is why the recoil seems excessive. A set of wooden grips that are a bit wider spreads the recoil out and it doesn't seem so excessive.


These grips do a very good job without being exessively fat the way the Pacmeyers are.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/M-29-2.jpg

Hey I gotta get some of those. I bet S&W is super expensive?

I can't comment on the strength of that S&W, as I have only owned Blackhawks in 45 Colt, but if you try Unique, you can probably get the same velocity as your lower H110 load, but with noticeably less recoil. I normally use 10 grains of Unique under a 255gr SWC for about 1,050 fps. For your 270gr bullet, try 9 grains of Unique and adjust from there. Should be surprisingly more pleasant to shoot.

Wider grips will also help a lot, as posted above.

Hi Ironworker!

The Model 25 is a beautiful gun! And I try to keep it that way. Heavy recoil and a worn gun are two things I'd avoid. I keep my .45LC loadings to 8 grains Unique behind a .255 gr SWC bullet. I don't mind using that in the Model 25, and certainly wouldn't second guess it in any of my Redhawks. It loafs along somewhere in the 850 FPS range.
Not too much recoil, pressure, and just right for enjoyability.
If you do want to have the avilability of higher performance rounds for your woods walks, you might want to consider what a lot of the .38 SPL crowd do: Practice with your everyday loads, but carry slightly more powerful ones (.38 +P). An occasional hot round shouldn't hurt, but don't overdo it.
If you have to run really hot stuff, buy yourself a Ruger Alaskan.
I think my loads are just fine. If I can't stop whatever it is that's coming at me with a single cylinder full, then I have four speed loaders handy. If I can't stop it with that much ammo, then nothing can help me.
Happy Shootin'! -Tom

Ok my my S&W 25 isn't a Ruger Black Hawk. Reading the post on S&W 625 Mountain gun they say keep the loads at no more then a 1,000 fps. So today shooting 3 loads. !st one 23.5 grs of H110 behind a 270gr Cast. MV of about 1100 FPS. Kicks hard ( Too hard). 2nd load was 21.2grs of H110 behind same bullet for a MV of 975 FPS Less recoil . 3rd load was 13.5 grs of Blue Dot same bullet for a MV of 895 FPS. I know my 1st load is too hot but what about my 2nd load? Why am I loading these so hot? I enjoy hiking in the National forest where Black Bears and Mountain Lions roam. My 44 Magnum is an 8" Colt Anaconda its big and bulky.This S&W 25 is a 6" very comfortable.

When I got my son a S&W Mountain Gun in .45 Colt I wrote S&W about the use of +P loads in the revolver. They said it will handle the +P loads just fine. I was referring specifically to the Cor-Bon Hunter +P loads in 300 gr. and 335 gr. and S&W gave them the A-O-K to use.

I really like your signature about the sharp tounge. That is really true ,always best to treat others they way you want them to treat to you.

i got a 25-5 and i was looking at my sierra manual for a decnt 45 colt load. sierra's manual states do use in a smith&wesson 25-5.
when looking at other manuals ,i'm trying to figure out how you can load
the 45 colt smith to 44 performance as stated by diffrent gunshop employees. i guess those loads are reserved for ruger.
anyways the 25-5 remains unfired,and i'm still not sure what i'm going to do with it.dan

Answer to your question is in this thread. No don't try and equal a 44 mag. I just wanted a big heavy bullet at 1,000 FPS. When I did obtain this they kicked too hard. I have a Colt Anaconda and I shoot a much heavier load in that ,but that handles recoil entirely different.

I read this in another context, but it really applies to reloading: Insisting on the maximum rather than the optimum is a sickness.

Rocky your post is loaded with wisdom

anywhere in the 8-9 grs of unique will do the job. i got a 25-5,seems they were made during smith's troubled period in the early or mid 80s. the later one received performance packages to beef up gun, however the 25-5 is not a candidate.
mine sits unfired. call smith they'll give you the story.
maybe since i talked to them they have a design to beefup the 25-5.

three things you can do.
1. keep it ,and accept the gun's limitations.still a fine performer and will do
the job.
2. sell it and buy a newer 25
3. trade it for a ruger redhawk,anaconda,or etc.