This bullet is giving me fits.....When I roll crimp in the groove the OAL is too long to fit in the chamber of my 41 mag blackhawk. The case sticks out of the back of the cylinder as the driving band of the bullet contacts the step-down @ the chamber mouth.


I have tried seating the bullet deeper @ taper crimping, but I'm getting 5-6 " shotgun patterns @ 25 yards with my load of 18.8 grains of Lil' Gun....


Anyone using this bullet in their blackhawk with success...?? :confused:



41

I would suggest you try a different powder before you panic here. Lack of a firm crimp is not working for you with that powder.

Just use the roll crimp, anywhere you like. This isn't much of a trick with lead bullets, it will work as long as you seat and crimp in separate steps. I do it all the time.

Also, make sure your expander is a couple of thousandth's smaller than the bullet diameter, that will help increase bullet pull a bunch.

Yup, Mike nailed it. I have the same problem with my Taurus 41 mag Tracker. It's got a short cylinder and this limits OAL so you've got to crimp where there's no crimp groove. Nary a problem with a roll crimp die and if you don't have the four die sets like Lee sells then separate crimping and seating into two steps like Mike said.

Back out the seater crimp die and drop the seater down so it will seat in one step without crimping, then screw the die down and the seater out so you can crimp in the next step. Like Mike says I do this all the time. I just seem to get better loads by making the process two steps rather than one. Lee sells four die carbide handgun dies that separate the seating and crimping into two sets.

I would suggest you try a different powder before you panic here. Lack of a firm crimp is not working for you with that powder.


Powder has nothing to do with the problem here. MikeG & Faucettb nailed the problem and gave the medical cure..

Dillon dies sets for handgun cartridges use 4 dies so the seating operation is separate from the crimping also. Their 44mag/44spl dies have been great. Their powder drop has also surprised me with my last cylinder load (light W231 load) run over the chronograph and 4 of the 6 rounds clocking exactly the same MV fps. These were loaded on a Dillon 550B progressive press.

Powder has nothing to do with the problem here. MikeG & Faucettb nailed the problem and gave the medical cure..

Actually it does because different powders can have different crimping requirements to do their best. It was quite apparent that powder he was using did not like his crimp and why accuracy was poor. If you can get a better crimp and improve accuracy then fine but a different powder type can help a lot here sometimes.

got to agree with jwp here, I've used a lot of different powders in the 45 Colt, 44 mag, 41 mag and the 357/38's and a good solid crimp works on them all. I've never seen any different crimping requirements for different powders listed in the reloading manuals.

This is not a short cylinder guys, this is a boolit too large to enter the throats.
The first thing I would do is to slug the bore and throats to make sure the throats are larger then the bore, if not, they need to be opened up. If they are, the boolits need to be sized to just fit the throats.
My guess is that the throats are too small. We need all measurements, boolits, throats and groove to groove in order to make any determination.
The terrible accuracy from a good boolit shows me the boolit is being sized in small throats and is then too small for the bore.
41rem, please measure.

Actually it does because different powders can have different crimping requirements to do their best. It was quite apparent that powder he was using did not like his crimp and why accuracy was poor. If you can get a better crimp and improve accuracy then fine but a different powder type can help a lot here sometimes.


The problem i s the cylinder lead is too small for the bullet in question. A problem not uncommon. The powder has abosolutely nothing to do with the bullet stick in the chamber when crimped in the crimp groove. If th leads are smsller than the barrel grove then they need to be opened. A small cylinder lead will cause terrible accuracy.

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated fellas. I'm thinking it was a weak crimp & my load of Lil' Gun didn't like it. Sure hope so as I shoot this same load with the 250 gr. Cast Performance bullet ( which btw I can crimp in the groove), and that one will group 1.5-2" all day @ 25 yards of my bench-rest. If the problem lies in the cylinder being too small for this bullet as some have stated, I'll have to work that out later.....

I went to pull the bullets & re-do the whole mess, but the gas checks stayed down in the case on the 2 I tried to pull.........:(


So I went to plan B, backed off the roll crimp in my die, 1/2 way pulled the bullets to break the roll crimp & re-seated the bullets deeper so they would seat as they should, then used my Lee taper crimp die in a separate step to put a SOLID crimp in that 250 gr. bullet.


I have 30 rounds done in this fashion, & will give them a go @ the bench, I'll let you know if the groups tighten up......:cool:




41

I'd sure slug the bore and also the cylinder throats. With that done it might make a bunch of difference. I've used Marshall's fire lapping kits on several revolvers and have always seen an accuracy increase. You might go over to our tech notes and read some of the articles on fire lapping.

Here's one of the Beartooth articles you can check out.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/47

You sure you don't have .44 cal bullets ( .429" ) instead of 410" ?

Like BFR said, you gotta measure everything...

.

when you do get your problem corrected look into imr 4227 ,i've had excellent results in my blackhawk,425,and 657. blue dot and 296
also are good in my 41s shooting 230 gr and 210 gr cast.,and xtps