I did a search and didn't come up with too much on this topic. I ask the question because as I gear up to start reloading and my startup costs for equipment is increasing, I'm wondering if a tumbler is something where I should just bite the bullet and buy now, or if it's something that can wait until a later date. I never remember a time where my Dad didn't have a tumbler - he had a red octagonal tumbler for the longest time that he used with walnut hull media, and then he bought a vibratory tumbler - I think it was a Lyman - that he used with corn cob media.

How dirty does your brass have to get before you should clean it? Right now I have about 300 empy .45 ACP cases and about 200 .44 Mag that might benefit from being cleaned and polished, but I just don't know how important that step is in the grand scheme of things. One factor to consider is my dies - if I only run clean brass through them, then I don't have to worry about cleaning them as often.

Off topic, but I'm flipping a coin between RCBS .44 Mag dies and the Lee deluxe 4-die set. The RCBS utilizes a roll crimp on the seating die, and the Lee of course uses the Factory Crimp Die. Any preferences out there toward one or the other?

No, a tumbler is one of those "nice to have", but not a necessity for reloading.

No, you don't have to tumble new brass. You DO need to lube, full length resize, trim to the smallest OAL for consistency and square mouths, chamfer the mouths, and, if you really want to strain at gnats, true up the primer pockets and flashholes.

When brass gets dull you can always use 4-0 steel wool and a chucked up hand drill or press. Dirty brass should be hand wiped clean, regardless of having a tumbler.

Don't confuse "clean" with "polished". Clean counts...don't want dirt, grit embedded in the case, scratching your dies or rifle chamber. Polished is just "bling". Bright polished is just for looks (even new military ammo doesn't bother with the shine).

Think of clean dull brass as "desert cammo".

I probably won't be reloading any rifle brass for a while yet, but thanks for the replies - it lets me know that I can "X" close to $100 off of my next order - I was going to get an RCBS tumbler, a decent sized bag of corn cob media and some Flitz brass polish. It would appear those things can wait, and I can use the money on the other, more important stuff like my expendable components, or I could put the money toward some casting equipment - I'd really like to start casting bullets as a means to save some over the long run..

When you guys hand wipe down your brass, do you do it with something like a plain shop rag, or do you do it with a cloth that has been treated in some way?

trickg
I canthink of nothing to add to the previous two posts.
I handloaded for many years without worrying about how good my rounds looked.I just wiped them clean with a rag and a little Hoppes #9,to remove crud.
But when I did finally buy a vibrator cleaner/polisher,I polisihed every case that I would use.Even polished cases that were stored for future use,and probably not ever used.
Bright,shiny cases seem to work better in the action,and are much easier to find on the ground.
Frank

Clean brass makes it easier to see defects. A ScotchBrite pad will get them nice and shiny, too.
When I wipe down my brass I just use a liberated kitchen towel....

You can really skip over getting a tumbler altogether by washing your brass. Submerge the preferably deprimed brass with just enough hot water to cover in a five gallon pail. Add a few tablespoons of concentrated lemon juice and a squirt of liquid dish detergent and stir well. Let sit an hour and stir a little more and dump out and rinse well with hot water. Let dry thoroughly and reload. Brass will come out quite clean and shiny with this method. I limit it to about 300 .38 Spec cases or less at a time using this method.

Tom - thanks for that tip! I'll try that method - I have a 3 gallon pail that I think would work very well for that and I seem to always have concentrated lemon juice in the fridge. That seems quite a bit cheaper and easier than dealing with buying a tumbler and will get me where I need to go for a while.

A cotton rag I've found works best for cleaning off the lube and fouling from your loaded rounds. Old cotton socks with holes in the heals work the best! They grab the copper slivers off fairly well too, if loading rounds that produce this. Every time I clean my guns, I also like to twist a chamber mop in there to get fouling gunk out so it doesn't build up since you'll never be able to get all of the lube off just wiping the cartridges down.

Some powders, chambers, and rounds just seem to foul up worse than others, so your cleaning steps may differ. I have a vibratory bowl that I use, although I don't use it for cleaning every firing of cases.

I have only RCBS dies in my loading room, so I can't offer you an opinion on alternates! Not saying any other manufacturers aren't any good, just never had a reason to stray.

I have only RCBS dies in my loading room, so I can't offer you an opinion on alternates! Not saying any other manufacturers aren't any good, just never had a reason to stray.
Dad had a shelf that had stacks of green RCBS die boxes for the various rounds he reloaded - I actually felt a little weird when the first set of dies I ordered were Lee dies instead of RCBS, but in getting started with reloading, since I bought the Lee Challenger press kit, I figured I'd outfit it with Lee dies to start. Also, since the factory crimp die gets such good reviews, that I just felt it was a good way to go.

Shooting an autoloader with lead bullets guarantees dirty brass. You get a bit of sticky lube blowback on the outside of every case, and then it hits the floor. That's where a tumbler pays off in time saved

I haven't used them myself, but several folks here consider the Redding Profile crimp die the best.

Bye
Jack

A variation of the old NRA cleaning formula still works.

Water...white vinegar...dash of soap. Water to vinegar about 2:1 (but even 1;1 works just fine).

Put brass in a plastic container (gallon water jugs with the tops cut work fine).
Heat cleaning solution if possible.
Pour over cases.
Let sit for an hour (two hours if the solution was cold)
pour off the solution (save it...pour off the clean top layers).
hot water rince (as hot as your home tap can produce)
dump out to dry

Produces a finish pretty close to military new brass..clean and bright, but not polished bright.
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As i remember the original formula, they used "soap flakes"....that's not a product you'll find commonly today, so a squirt of "dawn" seems to work. They used a bit of salt as well...never really understood why, so i never added it.

Near fifty years of reloading has gone by for me and up til a few years ago I didn't clean brass except to wipe it off like Frank did. What I did do though was use the Lee trimmer chucked in a drill press and use some steel wool to clean cases. This low buck solution cleaned a lot of cases and it's fairly quick for those whom don't shoot thousands of rounds.

a few years ago Cabela's had a sale on their case tumbler kit for around 50 bucks for the whole thing and I had some extra money. Now all my cases are shiny and bright and all it takes is turning on a switch so there you go. If your just getting started the Lee trimmer base chucked in an electric drill is quick and easy and with a little steel wool makes nice shiny cases to go in your dies.

Like faucettb, I have been loading for about 45 years and I just bought a tumbler about 2 years ago. It was worth the money. I used to clean all my cases with the water and vinegar solution and then with 0000 steel wool. Just make sure there is ano grim on the outside. I have had to replace dies due to scratches from dirt on the cases.

Like faucettb, I have been loading for about 45 years and I just bought a tumbler about 2 years ago. It was worth the money. I used to clean all my cases with the water and vinegar solution and then with 0000 steel wool. Just make sure there is ano grim on the outside. I have had to replace dies due to scratches from dirt on the cases.
Hmmmm. Technically I could probably afford to go ahead and get a tumbler and the necessary accessories - media, polish, separator - but my thought on this is for when the missus sees the bill. She won't bat an eye for $100-$125, but if I start pushing it up around $200, even though we can afford that, she's more inclined to suffer a bigger case of sticker shock.

I'll put it on hold for now, but I fully plan on picking up a tumbler - probably the RCBS, based on reviews I have read and the price point of the product - at some point in the near future.

I think I'm going to go ahead and get the RCBS dies as well. That way I'll have the ability to compare my Lee dies side by side with the RCBS to develop a preference based on my own experience.

I'd buy the tumbler kit from Midway or Cabela's, which ever is on sale at the moment. Both come with media, polish and a brass separator. I've been running one now for two or three years with nary a problem. I think with shipping it was 65 bucks back then.

A variation of the old NRA cleaning formula still works.

Water...white vinegar...dash of soap. Water to vinegar about 2:1 (but even 1;1 works just fine). . . They used a bit of salt as well...never really understood why, so i never added it.
I too have used the old NRA cleaning formula for many years. It's great stuff because everything in it is already in the kitchen so there's nothing more to buy. Now I only use it for initial cleaning on discarded range brass that I have "salvaged". Range brass may have small amounts of dirt or small rocks inside the case so I decap them before they go into the cleaning solution. I've found that the big wide-mouth plastic jars that Costco sells nuts in works better than any other container that I've tried. After soaking overnight, I agitate the capped jar over the sink (the cap is not water tight) to force the solution through the brass in order to remove as much of the loose material as possible. Next, the solution is poured into a second nut jar and saved for future use. The brass is rinsed several times in hot water and racked to dry. This is where those throw away plastic cartridge holders for pistol ammunition come in handy as the cases can be racked casemouth down to drain out. Finally, the brass is tumbled for a bit in walnut then it either goes to storage or into the reloading process. BTW, I DO use a bit of salt in the formula as without it, the brass tastes a bit bland.:D

Hmmmm. Technically I could probably afford to go ahead and get a tumbler and the necessary accessories - media, polish, separator - but my thought on this is for when the missus sees the bill. She won't bat an eye for $100-$125, but if I start pushing it up around $200, even though we can afford that, she's more inclined to suffer a bigger case of sticker shock.

I'll put it on hold for now, but I fully plan on picking up a tumbler - probably the RCBS, based on reviews I have read and the price point of the product - at some point in the near future.

I think I'm going to go ahead and get the RCBS dies as well. That way I'll have the ability to compare my Lee dies side by side with the RCBS to develop a preference based on my own experience.

You're doing the right thing.
Try a hands on approach to both Lee and RCBS dies.You decide which is the best choice.
Frank

A variation of the old NRA cleaning formula still works.

Water...white vinegar...dash of soap. Water to vinegar about 2:1 (but even 1;1 works just fine).
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They used a bit of salt as well...never really understood why, so i never added it.
The only thing I can think about for the salt is that as a base, it would help to neutralize the acidity of the vinegar.

All of the advice are good ideas, but cleaning one piece at a time instead of putting a couple hundred in a tumbler, is stone age to me.
Give the one at a time a try, but if you are anything like me, before long, you will hightail it to the nearest gun shop and buy a tumbler.

Eric

I haven't tried the NRA vinegar yet but the next time I clean brass, I'll give it a go. I have been cleaning my brass in plastic peanut butter jars with Joy or Dawn and hot water and it works great. After it dries I'll use the Scotch-brite with the lee tool to polish as I trim and chamfer each piece while reloading and the added 'work' is next to nil.

Personally I like not having to deal with the tumbler, dust, etc and my washer does double duty cleaning bore-snakes.

Cheers

Hi Patrick,

I would heartily encourage you to buy a tumbler. I don't reload anything that hasn't been cleaned and polished.
I own the big Dillon vibratory tumbler and use it with corn cob and a teaspoon of their polishing compound for every load of brass.
Before I tumble, I go the further step of washing the brass and drying it in an oven.
"Garbage in, garbage out"... The less dirty on stuff going in, the longer my corn cob lasts.
The reasons for tumbling are as follows:

-Clean cases don't transfer dirt to your dies.
-Clean and polished cases go through dies with less resistance than dirty ones.
-Clean cases look professional.

#1 is the biggie: Run dirty crap through your reloading dies, and they will eventually get the junk stuck int the dies, and then you'll be scoring every case coming through. Not good.
I've loaded over 100,000 rounds, and am proud of how my ammo looks and performs.
Do yourself a favor and spend the money on a tumbler now, you'll never regret it.
Happy Shootin'! -Tom



I did a search and didn't come up with too much on this topic. I ask the question because as I gear up to start reloading and my startup costs for equipment is increasing, I'm wondering if a tumbler is something where I should just bite the bullet and buy now, or if it's something that can wait until a later date. I never remember a time where my Dad didn't have a tumbler - he had a red octagonal tumbler for the longest time that he used with walnut hull media, and then he bought a vibratory tumbler - I think it was a Lyman - that he used with corn cob media.

How dirty does your brass have to get before you should clean it? Right now I have about 300 empy .45 ACP cases and about 200 .44 Mag that might benefit from being cleaned and polished, but I just don't know how important that step is in the grand scheme of things. One factor to consider is my dies - if I only run clean brass through them, then I don't have to worry about cleaning them as often.

Off topic, but I'm flipping a coin between RCBS .44 Mag dies and the Lee deluxe 4-die set. The RCBS utilizes a roll crimp on the seating die, and the Lee of course uses the Factory Crimp Die. Any preferences out there toward one or the other?

Tom, there is also the belief that clean brass in the chamber leads to greater accuracy downrange.

It's still in the air for now - I'll definitely get a tumbler at some point in the future, but I'll probably clean my brass with the cleaning solution method for now.

I'd certainly like to see objective proof of that belief.

I'll believe that clean brass is better all around, but have a hard time coming up with a logical reason for a polished case making a round shoot better....but i'll listen to the arguments and read any objective testing.
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Even in this short discussion, find posts that still confuse clean and polished...are not the same thing, but some of the arguments for a thumbler seem to confuse the two.

I've no argument for those of you who like the LOOk of polished cases...or like the look of nickled cases...or who want them colored dull black. Realize that it's just a desire for a certain decoration, it doesn't seem to make any more differnce tahn the color of the gun's stock (although I'd like to hear otherwise if you've a system for testing that takes out the human element).

Don't think polished cases mean a whit as far as accuracy goes. It's what is contained within the case and the bullet that makes the difference.

My cases are clean, but can be sorta dull by most folks interpretation. When they get too grungy looking even for my standards, they take a ride in the tumbler for a few hours to knock off the oxidation and get back some of the original luster. Real bright hurts these old eyes, so just a bit of a gleam will do!

Yup. "Purty" might please some, but no prairie dog I've ever helicoptered has complained that my ammo wasn't shiny enough!

Shoot 'em. Reload 'em. Shoot 'em again.

Keep in mind, it's not necessarily my belief that clean (not polished - just clean) brass makes for a more accurate load, it's just something that I read somewhere.

There also seems to be a great deal of difference between folks on the subject. Some people never tumble clean brass and don't even own a tumbler. Some folks tumble clean only when things start to get pretty dirty, and some folks won't reload a shell without first running it through the tumbler.

As much as I thought I was going to keep my order cost down by not getting tumbling equipment, it was still way higher than I wanted thanks to ordering a 4 pound canister of powder (smallest size they had in W231) and getting dinged with the convenient hazardous materials charge. Can you say "highway robbery"? :mad:

I run all my brass through the tumbler. Even the Nickel plated.
I like clean shiny cases.

T

Well, I cleaned some brass via the solution soaking method this evening. Bottom line: I'll be picking up tumbling gear the next time I place an order. I think that overall, tumbling is going to be less hassle and will be worth it in the long run. It isn't that my brass didn't get clean - it did, but not as clean as it would have been coming out of a tumbler.

have been reloading over 50 years and have yet to tumble my first brass case or any other case for that matter

have been reloading over 50 years and have yet to tumble my first brass case or any other case for that matter
I totally understand that - it may not be necessary, but for me, I think that it's something that I'm going to prefer and besides, the little bit that I know came from my Dad, and he did tumble clean his brass.

If you ever get into action pistol shooting, you'll want a tumbler. Dirty cases cause a lot of problems.

I tumble all my brass. I have a Frankford Arsenal tumbler from Midway, loaded up with Walnut hull media and Lyman Turbo-Brite polish. I can't remember what it cost me, but it was on sale and its worked great for the few years I've been reloading.

I thought I would post an update to this thread. My wife told me to place my order for some stuff that I want for my birthday next month, and I ordered an RCBS vibratory tumbler, a bag of the Franford Arsenal corn cob media, Flitz case polish and the Franford Arsenal separator. I also got a set of 38/357 dies, but that's for another thread. :D

So, I'm mostly set for reloading, and I know that I'm going to use the case tumbler quite a bit. One of the reasons I ordered the RCBS tumbler and not any of the others is because it reviewed as well as any of them, better than some, and I have yet to hear anyone say a bad word about RCBS customer service or repairs on items that have broken, and I have read where case tumbler motors burn up, so I'm simply hedging my bets.

As for media, I have been told that the local farmers Co-op sells shredded corn cob to use as animal bedding and they sell it dirt cheap, so I'll probably wind up going with that eventually, but I wanted to get a bag of the real stuff to start with.

Now the next stuff I'll need is for casting!

Just don't leave the thing on for days at a time and you will be fine. I run mine for 3-4 hours at a time and never had a problem.

You can also use the washing machine to clean brass. Take a towel and put the cases down on it. Then pick up the towel and put your normal amount of detergent in with the cases. Tie of the top with an electrical ty-wrap. Wash with a load of towels. The cases come out squeeky clean and nickeled cases look like new. You can let the cases air dry or put them in an oven at 250 degrees for 30 mins. I have a tumbler and use it a lot. Most pistol loads get tumbled after 2 or 3 loadings but rifle ammo that needs to be lubed gets dome every time. I hate wiping off lube.

Havne't thought of the washing machine, but don't think I could get away with that myself.

When I first started reloading it was 45-70 black powder rounds and a lyman 310. I cleaned the cases with soap and water and a scotch brite pad. I lucked up on a used lyman tumbler for 20$ at a pawn shop and haven't looked back. I shoot mostly black powder loads so cleaning is a must.

I normaly drop the empties into a jug of water, maybe a little dawn in it, and let soak for a day or two then dry and tumble. The black powder fouling takes a while to clean though. Think I'll give the water/vinigar soak a try and see if that helps. I've got a liquid tumbler ordered, hopefully it and ceramic media will get the realy dirty hulls clean. Rite now after several firing the cases get dirty and stained enough that after tumbling there a polished black. That iritates me but feeds and shoots fine.

A note about walnut and other cleaning media, I work offshore and we use crushed walnut hull occasionaly. I've taken a small sample jug of it home to try out in the tumbler. It works, but not nearly as well as the media I bought. Haven't tried pet litter corn cob yet.

You're doing the right thing.
Try a hands on approach to both Lee and RCBS dies.You decide which is the best choice.
Frank

I use both RCBS and Lee. I like certain things about them both. I LOVE the built in stuck case remover on the Lee dies. However, Lee's customer service, I have found to be lacking when problems occur (wrong dies in mail, ect) Also.... Lee dies will rust easily. I dont know what the deal is, but Ive found that they must be carefully oiled/wiped down after each use.

As for the original subject of tumbling brass or not, or is it an important step, I feel it is. Perhaps not "vital" but I will always tumble mine. (self proclaimed perfectionist :rolleyes: ) and I feel the less dirt, grunge, or even brass tarnish that is inside My dies and firearms, the better.

I use a Barry's Manufacturing tumbler. Has a lifetime warranty.... It wasnt expensive, I think 50 or 60 dollars when I bought it about 7 or so years ago, but its never given any probs.

Off topic, and maybe I just need some sleep, but what do you mean by "Lee's bilt in stuck case remover"? You talking about screwing the top off and driving it out that way?

I tend to agree with you on tumbling, the less crud in and on the brass the better.

Off topic, and maybe I just need some sleep, but what do you mean by "Lee's bilt in stuck case remover"? You talking about screwing the top off and driving it out that way?

I tend to agree with you on tumbling, the less crud in and on the brass the better.


Yes, I do mean to drive it out with the very beefy decapping pin/expander ball. The fine folks here at Shooters Forum told Me that this is the pourpose of the design :cool:

And (something else i thought of after my last post about the tumbling) is that I cannot see how it can do anything but help with feeding/extraction as well..... Also, wouldnt it just make You frown up to chamber a dirty tarnished shell? :( It would Me..... (but again, im picky, and a neat freak as well, lol)

The lee design is also great if you run across a Berdan primed case you missed. Instead of damaging the expander, the thing just gets shoved up out of the way 'till you readjust it.

Boy I have to agree with Eli.....I have a mixure of dies.....started small and moved up....the Lees give me the least trouble. They all work pretty well, except for some very old Lyman dies that got a rough spot...I replaced them....but it is hard to fault the premium Lee die sets. They do exactly what they are intended to do. I did install the old split ring hex screw die retainers on mine. Yes....mine get a bit discolored if I don't wipe them down with oil after use.

I've got my first batch of brass tumbling in my new RCBS tumbler with Flitz tumbling polish and corn cob media. My daughter and I were messing around with it and in just 5 minutes, brass is already looking shinier than the non tumbled brass.

So now the question begs to be asked, tumble before or after decapping? If I tumble after, the flash primer box will also get cleaned out, but that means running dirty brass through the decapping process.

I think I'm going to be happy I invested in this. I don't like reloading dirty brass, and the various methods for cleaning brass with soap, water, lemon juice, vinegar, etc, just seems to be kind of a pain when compared to using a vibratory tumbler.

Midway has Frankford Arsenal's tumbler on sale for 35.00. I bought one of these 6 months ago and it works great.

Makes sence, I haven't stuck a case yet, but it's good to know it won't be hard to remove. I love lee dies, got a couple others, but lee seems to work the best.

I would love to be able to deprime then tumble, but shooting black powder means the cases are very dirty. I have in the past used a single stage press and a universal deprimming die and that works, but adds anouther step. What I normaly do is to clean the primmer pocket between strokes on my progressive. Goes pretty quick and no more problems with high primmers or missfires. Smokless you could get away without cleaning the primmer pocket for a long time, black powder causes a bunch of crud to accumulate. I want to get or build a tool that I can decap the brass on the range before dumping to soak in water. Of course the few times I've tumbled brass without the primmer I'd get a few now and then with walnut stuck in the flash hole, but the resizing/decaping die took care of that.

I think I have my answer to tumbling before or after decapping - I think I'll tumble before decapping because I tossed some decapped .45 ACP in with my second batch and now I have media stuck in the flash holes. I remember that my Dad used to decap, then tumble using crushed walnut media, and then he'd stand there with a small punch and one by one, knock the media out of his flash holes. I think I'll be in just as good of shape if I tumble first, decap, and then if things are looking dirty, simply use the Lee Primer Pocket tool to clear out any excess crud.

As a side note, 2 hours is plenty of time to get brass good and shiny. I don't know if this is typical of all vibratory tumblers, but that seems to be the order of the day for the RCBS.

I think I have my answer to tumbling before or after decapping - I think I'll tumble before decapping because I tossed some decapped .45 ACP in with my second batch and now I have media stuck in the flash holes. I remember that my Dad used to decap, then tumble using crushed walnut media, and then he'd stand there with a small punch and one by one, knock the media out of his flash holes. I think I'll be in just as good of shape if I tumble first, decap, and then if things are looking dirty, simply use the Lee Primer Pocket tool to clear out any excess crud.

As a side note, 2 hours is plenty of time to get brass good and shiny. I don't know if this is typical of all vibratory tumblers, but that seems to be the order of the day for the RCBS.

Hey Trick, in My VERY humble opinion, I dont think it will matter either way, tumbling before or after decapping. Tumbling isnt gunna clean the primer pocket anyways, it will still be necessary to do that by hand, as always. I do it as Your Dad did. I use a small punch and knock out any media that sticks in the flash hole.

My way is as follows: tumble for as long as needed (at LEAST 30 mins to an hour to clean brass, and a few hours to 6 hours to polish brass that is tarnished, with some flitz mixed in) Then Ill size/decap, and tumble for 30 mins or an hour again to remove lube and my grubby fingerprints :rolleyes:. Then I load em..... Im almost ashamed to admit, but I do use rubber gloves when loading ammo that I will be storing for a while, as to keep My prints from tarnishing them. Told Ya.... Im a neat freak and perfectionist. :o But thats just My O.C.D. way of doing it, lol.