View Full Version : 327 Mag safety/education question
Rimless
07-01-2008, 08:46 PM
I've encountered numerous individuals, both online and in the flesh, who insist that it's perfectly safe to fire not only .32 S&W Long, but .32 H&R mag from the model 1895 Nagant revolver. I've been awaiting (and warning against) the day when I first hear of someone killing or injuring themselves in doing this, and the first thing I thought of when I read about the 327 mag in Rifleman magazine was that somebody was certainly going to blow one up now. Will the 327 mag drop fully into the 7.62 X 38 Nagant ctg chamber? Sure looks like it to me. With those high pressures in a straight case loaded into tapered chambers of guns that were designed for light loads and all too often manufactured in desperate times someone's just bound to get hurt if they try this one.
william iorg
07-02-2008, 04:50 AM
I agree it certainly looks like a good way to get hurt.<O:p</O:p
The base on the Nagant cartridge is about .335” diameter and the .32 H&R and the .327 Federal are .333” at the base. With the loaded cartridge length the Nagant at 1.53” and the .32 H&R Magnum at 1.35” this is a possibility.
The .327 Federal has a COAL of 1.470” but with the tapered chamber on the Nagant I am not certain it would chamber the cartridge.
The .327 Federal is loaded to high pressure and with the Nagant having a bullet diameter of .295” and the .327 Federal with a bullet diameter of .312” it certainly appears to be a “good” way to test your luck.
<O:p</O:p
The rim on the .32 H&R Magnum and .327 Federal are about .371” diameter. The Nagant has a rim of about .388” I wonder if the Nagant will extract the case?
faucettb
07-02-2008, 04:55 AM
I'd rather watch that on a vidio than be there when someone tries it. This falls into one of those cases where if it can be done some fool will try to do it. Then you wonder why our insurance rates are so high.
CoyoteJoe
07-02-2008, 06:05 AM
At one time there were people rechambering Nagants to 7.62 Tokarev!! Crazy!!
william iorg
07-02-2008, 06:56 AM
This is such an interesting cartridge within its limitations you would think it would be enough fun on its own without taking risks. How many revolvers will shoot sabots with reasonable acuray? A nice classic cartridge in an interesting revolver. About the same power as a .32 S&W Long.
Jim Rau
07-02-2008, 07:13 AM
Stupid is as stupid does!!!
Rimless
07-02-2008, 02:17 PM
Bummer. I was hoping they'd done something like thickened the rim or something to prevent this possibility.
My impression is that the high cost of Nagant ammo coupled with the availability of wrong ammo that will go bang if loaded in to this revolver drives most of this risk-taking. The fact that the Nagant revolver itself can be picked up inexpensively might not help this equation either. Guys looking for a bargain gun might not want to cough up for premium price ammo.
Dunno. Hopefully no one will happen to get that stupid. But it does seem likely that someone will -- particularly if they've squeaked by on other ammo mis-matches.
And yeah -- I saw a Nagant rechambered in 7.62X25 "Tokarev" offered on gunbroker some months ago. Seemed like a particularly bad idea to me. There would be little metal left between chambers toward the base, and that's just one reason it's foolish. The guy who had it listed claimed the gun had been modified by the Soviets in response to wartime supply chain problems with the 7.62 Nagant. I have no confirmation of that claim and feel it's a bit suspicious as the tools required to do such a job would be so far back up the organizational pipeline -- maybe only in the factories themselves.
Neat little revolver, and I must say that loading it with sabots and respecting its specified pressure ratings sounds like a whole lot of fun.
william iorg
07-02-2008, 07:03 PM
There are two different kinds of sabots. Each has a different length cut . The longer cuts allow the sabot to open at a lower velocity - rpm. I dont load for the Nagant but there are several in use on our local range and the owners are quite enthusistic.
al_sway
07-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Willian Iorg, you lost me when you talked about sabots and Nagants. I wasn't aware that the Nagant round used sabots. I thought the Nagant revolver operated on the principle of the cylinder moving forward on lockup, and the extended case sealing the gap. Or am I thinking of another revolver?
william iorg
07-04-2008, 01:55 PM
You have the cartridge right.
Some of the shooters here are loading it with .30 caliber sabots and 45 grains bullet. A light charge of AA No. 9 is giving them around 850 fps.
Accuracy is not really very good as at this velocity the sabots with the short slits will remain on the bullet to nearly 25 yards.
I have two different kinds of sabots with two different length slits in the sides. I gave them some of the long slits intened for lower velocity cartridges and these seem to work quite a bit better.
There are a surprising number of mil surp rifle and pistol shooters out here. I see some interesting rifles and some very good shooting from some of these rifles. The guys with the straight pull Swiss rifles are pretty serious shooters.
CoyoteJoe
07-04-2008, 04:23 PM
I doubt there is any great danger in firing .32 S&W or .32 H&R in the Nagant, those are both relatively low pressure rounds and the bases are not greatly undersize. Accuracy with those rounds is likely to be pretty hopeless due to the unthroated chambers, meaning the bullet of .312-.314" diameter has to wobble through a length of .335" chamber before reaching the barrel. I have one of the .32 ACP cylinders for my Nagant but it is nothing to brag on either.
I still remember the adds for the rechamber job which appeared in several gun rags, "Nagant, nyet" Tokarev, dah!" Aside from being a much higher pressure round than the revolver was designed for, they would still have the issue of the bullet having to ramble through 1/2" of unthroated chamber.
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