Am I the only one who has been reloading pointed bullets in my 30-30 Marlin for decades now? leverlution has nothing on me. I load 180 grain for bear and hogs, 150 grain for deer. I load only two bullets and have never had a problem. One up the tube and one in the mag. I get way better ballistics this way and if a person needs more than two shots to kill a deer then that person needs more range time.

Not only that, but if you have two good hits and you need to reload, it doesn't take much time to reload one in the chamber and one in the tube. I seriously doubt if you are the only one who does it though because it seems to me that yours is a common sense approach, and shooters by and large (and especially shooters who also reload) are folks who approach most things with a high degree of common sense.

You are doing the right thing.
I only use flat nosed bullets in my Winny'94,and only load 3 rounds.
That's because unloading is a pain,and 3is all that I have ever needed.
Two rounds will cover 99% of your hunting.
Frank

The difference in external ballistics between a 150 grain spire point and 150 grain flat point in the 30-30 is negligible in the field.

The trajectory difference between the 30-30 loaded with a 170 grain Nosler Partition round nose and any pointed 180 grain is also not enough to worry about. It is actually likely that the 170 grain Nosler will be a better killer than, and have approximately the same trajectory as, any pointed 180 grain cup and core bullet in a lever action 30-30. The pointed bullet will have to be seated deeper than the round nose to accomodate a cartridge overall length which allows reliable cycling from the magazine to the chamber, effectively reducing its potential.

You may be one of the only people doing it because any perceived gain is in reality negligible.

The difference in external ballistics between a 150 grain spire point and 150 grain flat point in the 30-30 is negligible in the field.
Possibly, but I think the point he was trying to make is that it can be done, and therefore it opens up a much wider range of possibilities for bullets to use in your reloading.

I get way better ballistics this way ... I couldn't ignore this point. I wouldn't call less than 30 feet of extended point blank range 'way better ballisitics.'

>I get way better ballistics this way

At long range on paper, maybe. At practical ranges, not so much. But whatever floats your boat...

Sierra 125 pointed bullet is intended as varmint bullet for .308 and 30-06. But at 30-30 velocities, it behaves like a good big game bullet. I've taken a number of 'lopes at distances beyond 175 yards with this deadly and accurate bullet.

PACO Kelly loads same bullet but clips off the sharp tip and finishes with an ordinary draw file to form a flat tip. PACO has taken large mulies with this amazing Sierra bullet.

TR

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/2pronghorns.jpg

IF the spitzer is designed to work in the vel. range of a 30-30 at reasonable yardage, nothing wrong with using your gun as a two-shot repeater.

Long ago was given about a feed-sack of 150gr. FMJ's. Used them up in a crack barrel H&R 30-30 and an old Glenfield 30-30. Military bullets, esp. those that looked to be "pop offs" from some fire, aren't benchrest material, but though most of my Junior year at college, plinking with those loads keep me at least close to sane.

You do have to be cautious that any pointed bullet, will actually expand at 30-30 velocities.

Here, finally, may be the perfect application of the plastic-tipped bullets. While I've had them come apart at .30-06 velocities, a .30-30 should be much easier on them.

Then again, I agree with Jackfish that there isn't going to be much practical difference in the field, all things considered.

Whatever floats your boat....

The 130gr. / 135gr. .308" bullets marketed as "Specialty pistol" bullets worked well....will have to do a search to see if they're still made, but they showed nice expansion out at 200yards.

I tend to think the gain in trajectory would be more than lost by using a bullet not designed to work at 30-30 velocities. I'm not saying there are not some that would do fine, it's just kind of an unknown.

I will make a point for any reloaders thinking about trying spitzers in a Marlin 336. Be very sure of the maximum overall length a loaded cartridge can be and still eject before you try a live shell. As far as I have determined the only safe way to unload a too long cartridge is to fire it.

I see much agreement in this thread. +1 from me. I shoot the "pointy" ones because I have a buttload of them. Only for target practice though. Likely would work fine on game at lever rifle ranges (because the speed is enough to make them work up close). For hunting purposes, I would use a bullet designed for the 30-30. There are a bunch of good ones out there after all else is concidered. Our friend and host of this board is a real good place to start.

One in the pipe and one in the tube is good by me!

Cheezywan

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR style="COLOR: #ffffff" bgColor=#2c8a3c><TD>Bullet Name</TD><TD>Diameter inches</TD><TD>Weight grains</TD><TD>Sectional Density</TD><TD>Ballistic Coefficients</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#d9fade><TD align=top>.308 dia. 135 gr. SPT - Single Shot Pistol </TD><TD align=top>.308 </TD><TD align=top>135 </TD><TD align=top>.203 </TD><TD noWrap align=top>.304 @ 2800 fps and above
.294 between 2800 and 2250 fps
.282 between 2250 and 1500 fps
.255 @ 1500 fps and below

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I have use the Sierra 135 grain spitzer in a Marlin 336 (20" BBL) for a number of years. This bullet is designed for the velocity levels the .30-30 can readily reach. Using a Lee Factory Crimp Die to prevent bullet setback and published data, my loads push 2400 FPS. I sight in for 200 yards.

I load one round in the chamber and one in the magazine.

Well, expansion may not be up to say a 308, but I have killed several deer at anywhere from 25 yards to over 200 yards with my 150 grain load. I shoot for meat only, never could see hunting for antlers, so I don't want to tear up to much meat but still kill what I am aiming at. My 150 grain load I use right now is:

Barnes bullet
Alliant Reloader 15 (39grs)
Velocity reaching around 2580
around 1" 3 shot groups @ 100 yds.

I will have to try some of those 135 gr. Sierras. I see some agree with me and some don't. Dosen't matter. This works for me and I get one shot kills with less meat destroyed. So ok maybe "way better" was a little strong but this load does exactly what I want it to do so I will continue to kill deer with it. Same with my 180gr load. It works for me and kills hogs with authority.

.

I have been using spitzers in Winchesters for years. It was fairly common back before the gun writers "knew" that it would blow the gun up. Of the thousands run thru a tube magazine I have never seen a gun damaged by a "mag-fire". I know, cousin Charlie has a second cousin on his wife's whose sister's father-in-law once saw it happen but all I can say is show me.

.

Going to have to hunt up some of the old Remington Bronze points or military FMJ's and do some off-rifle experiments..won't risk a gun, but will risk a mag. tube.

Believe it is a risk, but slight, with pointed lead bullets...maybe less of a risk at 30-30 recoil levels, but still a risk that need not be taken.

Well I never load more than 2 rounds at a time. That way there is only one round left in the mag when I fire a round off. No chance of a accidental discharge there. Like I said, if you can't hit your target with two rounds then you need to go to the range for practice. Actually one round and one for back up. One shot one kill. Does the military still teach that to the troops?

.

I have been using spitzers in Winchesters for years. It was fairly common back before the gun writers "knew" that it would blow the gun up. Of the thousands run thru a tube magazine I have never seen a gun damaged by a "mag-fire". I know, cousin Charlie has a second cousin on his wife's whose sister's father-in-law once saw it happen but all I can say is show me.

.

I agree that I never ever heard an actual account of a round exploding in the magazine of a levergun.
I do remember someone,on the Web,somewhere,remarking that the point of the bullet does'nt touch the primer,it touches the cartridge base,near the primer.
However,I hunt the big Woods,and a pointed bullet adds nothing of value for me.I have no reason to experiment wit it.
Frank

There is some good discussion on the issue here. http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=18271&highlight=tube+detonation

It also backs up what Frank just posted about the relationship of bullet point to primer in the 30-30.

Not even sure what the mechanics would be that impact the primers. When fired, inertia pulls the gun back, rounds tend to stay still, compressing the mag. spring.....gun stops moving, mag. spring rams them all back. Whatever the point to primer orientation when you start, seems like they get 'shuffled' with each dose of recoil.

So it seems we'd be dealing with recoil foce....then the slammin back of the mag. spring...and that would probably also have a few bounces to it.


Whatever...when i get back home from vacation, will put some primed (no powder) rounds loaded with military FMJ bullets in a spare mag. tube (or substitute tube)...put them under the same aproximate spring tenstion as the mag tube 1/2 loaded...figure out the recoil force generated from a typical rifle..and start dropping the tube from whatever height aproximates that force.

They can and do. Might be rare, but rarer still is the person who can grow fingers back!

I don't have a problem with people doing it and being careful; still just don't see any practical advantage in the field to be honest. Have shot some critters over 100 yards with the .35 Rem and didn't feel handicapped in the least, both with flat-nosed and round nosed bullets.

.

How is it going to blow fingers off? A round fired in the magazine (by design) will not even damage the magazine. A cartridge cannot build any pressure in a mag, it just makes a little smoke and black residue. Several articles have appeared in Gun Digest and Handloader magazine on this subject where the author has set up a fixture to attempt to fire rounds in a mag tube. They could not cause a discharge without carefully positioning the cartridge and using more force than a 30-30 could ever produce.

Now a 45-70 was a surprise. The 45-70 loaded with a wide meplat bullet (wide flat nose) could easily be fired in a mag tube. Lay a couple out on the table and see where that sharp edge of the wide meplat rest. How about that? Yet we hear no rantings about using wide flat nose bullets, only pointed bullets.

Having fired pointed bullets from guns with tube mags, I have found no advantage in doing so. The 30-30 and 35 Rem for example, are more lethal with the round nose bullet IMHO. So why do we need spitzers in these calibers?

I agree with most of you that pointed bullets is of little value in a 30-30. I'm not convinced that Hornady's Leverevolution ammo is of much practical use once we get past the marketing hype.

.

Wondering where Ribbonstone is vacationing at? Does not matter to the thread.

I choose not to do it. I have noted (during my limited time on this planet), that trouble seems to come from "thin air". A "pointey bullet" resting against the primer of a live round in my hands is more risk than I care to take. I know of some bullets "designed" for the 30-30 that raise hair on my neck. Some are/were factory offerings.

For a lever rifle out to 200 yards (or so), Why risk it?
In a single-shot, what have you gained in terminal performance?

Cheezywan

I worked up to 2,400fps with the 135 Sierra SSP for my Marlin 336 .30-30 a number of years ago. The hunting club I belonged to at the time had several powerline areas that were deer funnels. Due to the cut over and growth the only place to put a tree stand high enough to see one very productive crossing was right at 200 yards away.

I had been loading Speer 170 grain flatnose bullets just over 2,000 fps and even at short ranges, expansion was minimal unless it hit bone. Not having the scratch at that time for a .270, and wanting to hunt the powerline funnel, I looked to the 135 Sierra SSP as the most logical choice.

It worked - more than once.

Oh, almost forgot to mention, with just two rounds loaded, the Marlin / K2.5-1 combo grouped quite a bit tighter also.

Ralph

Cheezywan:
Was visiting my mom in Pound, Va. That's a tiny coal mining town in the eastern tip of Va. (about 4 miles from Kentucky). NO cell phone service for miles, but she has 'net sercice.

Think the point is that if one round goes, the cnaces are very good that it would split the pluged at both ends mag tube (and possibly set off other rounds). Not going to test that, but will find a tube to aproximate a Win. 94's tube, make the powder less FMJ rounds, used drilled cases so I might hear the pop if it goes off, put them under spring tension, and drop them occasionally. Doubt I'll sit there and drop them a couple of hundred times, but will tape a tag to it and every time I get the urge, drop it from a pre-set height a few times as I'm about doing other things.


Will let you know when/if a primer goes "pop".

I loaded 10 Speer 150gr. spitzers after work today over some BL-C2. A little stress relief was in order. I could not "push" more than one into the magizine tube. I Don't care! Ain't gonna happen here! I won't do it.

Magizine capacity is six for a model 94(30-30). Never had more than three in mine.

Ribbonstone; Good on your experiment with a "mag tube". I am interested in "what happens"?
Sidenote: I found Pound. Looks like good fishing and hunting nearby. I wish that Mom is well. Sure looks like a nice spot.

When are we going to perfect the 30-30?

Cheezywan

Cheezywan:
Was visiting my mom in Pound, Va. That's a tiny coal mining town in the eastern tip of Va. (about 4 miles from Kentucky). NO cell phone service for miles, but she has 'net sercice.

Think the point is that if one round goes, the cnaces are very good that it would split the pluged at both ends mag tube (and possibly set off other rounds). Not going to test that, but will find a tube to aproximate a Win. 94's tube, make the powder less FMJ rounds, used drilled cases so I might hear the pop if it goes off, put them under spring tension, and drop them occasionally. Doubt I'll sit there and drop them a couple of hundred times, but will tape a tag to it and every time I get the urge, drop it from a pre-set height a few times as I'm about doing other things.


Will let you know when/if a primer goes "pop".

What exactly will that prove/disprove?

.

.

How is it going to blow fingers off? A round fired in the magazine (by design) will not even damage the magazine.

That may be true in some cases, but not all....especially higher pressure pistol cartridges with faster burning powders. Back in the late 1960's early 1970's users of tube fed Ruger semi automatic rifles chambered in .44 Magnum were warned not to use round nosed bullets because of reported magazine blow ups. THere was a picture of that rifle with a blown up magazine in the picture.:eek:

John

I have looked and calculated a lot of 30-30 rounds but could never top the Leverevolution round. It obsoleted everything else.

fknipfer

One of Elmer Keiths books has a picture of a 71 Win that had been rechambered to 50 alaskan. The owner was shooting max loads with a hard cast round nose and the mag tube exploded with devastating results to the shooters left hand. Lot of recoil there of course. On the other hand I have no problem loading round nose Hornet bullets in a 218 bee lever gun. Most flatnose jacketed bullets designed for leverguns are smaller in diameter than a large rifle primer anyway. The nose rests against the primer, if centered, anyway. I think it would be pretty hard to set off a primer with a soft lead bullet nose in any shape. On the other hand, trajectory depends more on velocity then bullet shape. Any cartridge in the 2000-2500 fps range isn't going to be a 300 yard cartridge no matter what the shape of the nose is. And I believe the flat and round nose soft points are better killers because of the better entrance wounds and more reliable expansion, especially at 2000-2500 fps. This is about the perfect velocity for standard cup and core bullets. Maybe thats why the 30-30 gained such a great reputation as a reliable killer on big game. The nose shape, velocity , and bullet construction all came together to make a very reliable combination.