What's the world come to you ask ! Yeah, me too. Anyway, I've been collecting guns all of my life. Like many of you, hunting has brought me a great deal of pleasure over the years.

I guess I am moving into the "fishing" period of my life. I am semi-retired. I don't have enough money to fully retire so I have to do something to make ends meet. I have gone into the fishing business down in Mexico. In case you don't know, it is next to impossible to export guns to Mexico.

So, I am selling my guns. I've got what I consider a pretty interesting collection. I don't have them all posted yet but am working on it.

Anyway, to make it simple to show my collection to people, I have put them on a web page.



Please feel free to take a look. If you see something you just gotta take home that great. If not, that's cool too. I've had a blast collecting them over the years and I enjoy showing them off.

So, take a look and enjoy. NO, I am not a dealer. This is my private collection.

Cheers.

That's a great collection - I wish that I was in a place to be able to afford some of those fine rifles, but alas, it's just not in the cards at the moment. That said, you should be able to find buyers for those things because they certainly are desirable!

450NE -

I've edited your link for your firearms. The intent of the board is to list the firearms with your location and a price per unit. Links to private collections is frowned upon.

To save bandwidth, please be as brief as possible in describing the items for sale.

Okay. Whatever you say. Would it be permitted for me to say that if anyone would be interested in seeing some beautiful guns they can pm me or would that cause further frowning?

By the way, can you give me a link please. I somehow missed that in the rules. My apologies.

Yes, you may discuss sales with members through the PM system.

As far as personal website links, please peruse the board to determine how many you find for other members.

PM sent with request for the link.

450NE -

I've edited your link for your firearms. The intent of the board is to list the firearms with your location and a price per unit. Links to private collections is frowned upon.
What's the difference? If he uses the board as a means to advertise and sell, or whether he posts a link to a page showing his guns as a means to advertise and sell, (which has information regarding location and price per unit) isn't it essentially the same thing?

Regarding the thought about saving bandwidth, it has less to do with how much text he posts as it does how many times that text is accessed, and to that end, the graphics that are loaded on the page each and every time the page is refreshed to someone's computer browser suck up far more bandwidth than the simple ASCII text that comprises most of our posts. Even with formatted text, it's only adding HTML tags around that ASCII text - the only way he could really put a real dent in the bandwidth would be if he uploaded a lot of graphics, but the forum software puts limits on that to prevent that sort of thing.

I'm not trying to step on any toes here, but in one sentence you told him he couldn't link to an external site, but in the next sentence you warned him about saving bandwidth - if you allowed him to link to the other site, the bandwidth consumption would then be the problem of the other web host and not the problem of this forum. Wouldn't have been simpler to allow the link to the page? And for that matter, what if he adds that website to his profile? Does that still violate the rules?

Yes, you may discuss sales with members through the PM system.

As far as personal website links, please peruse the board to determine how many you find for other members.
Unless we aren't allowed to make use of the intrinsic tools of the vBulletin forum software, anyone can add a website to their profile and make it a part of their signature line.

First of all, let me say, that I appreciate all of the PM's and kind comments. You guys are great.

Please let me reiterate my position. I have no intent to give anybody a hard time. Especially the moderators. I have tried to tread lightly but seem to have drawn the ire of the moderators in any case.

I am not a dealer. Far from it, actually. These guns are like my children. I don't mean to offend any parents ! Maybe I should say, they are more like pets. Anyway, I didn't really expect members of this forum to buy up all my guns. Honestly, that wasn't even really the point. Don't get me wrong, if you want one, I will sell it to you. Happily!

In reality, I am motivated more by a desire share my collection with fellow members of this site.

I am still working on listing my guns. Once I am finished (this week?) I will purchase an ad in the Safari Club magazine. I feel this is probably the best way to get my guns in front of the most likely people to be interested in such things.

What you are seeing here, I guess, is a preview.

By listing a link, I thought the moderators would be happy knowing I WASN'T using up their bandwidth to list my guns and the accompanying graphics and stories.

Somehow I have a feeling that if I had just showed up and listed a bunch of guns all at once that this wouldn't have been appreciated either.

So ... to restate my position. I apologize to anyone offended. It certainly wasn't my intention. Please do look at my guns. You don't have to buy anything. Heck, just enjoy the visit and let me know what you think!

Cheers,
Richard

For my part, I'm not trying to get myself in trouble with the moderation staff, but I don't see there there should be much of an issue with the way that Richard was handling the thread - especially since it was posted in the Trading Post section of the forum - an area that is designed for this kind of thing. I could understand if he was a dealer not allowing the link to the external site, but since that isn't the case, the way I see it, it would behoove the Shooters' Forum to allow it due to the fact that it takes the bandwidth burden and places it on Richard's web host.

Just a thought.

what it comes down to is the wishes of the OWNER of the board....

we have to enforce the rules of this free board.

Sorry, that's the way it has to be.

Please feel free to PM me the link. Always looking for nice firearms

Best to all,

The owner of this board, Marshall Stanton, isn't charging anything for posting here, but he pays for the bandwidth. Richard expects a profit from his sales, so why shouldn't he get the extra traffic on his site and pay for it?

Bye
Jack

Sorry but I have to respond this. Anybody who plans to sell their gun collection for a profit might want to rethink that plan. That's why I have gone to great lengths to ensure nobody thought I was a dealer. "DEALER" definition, "one who makes a profit".

I love my guns but if you are collecting so that some day in the future you can make a killing...whoa! Now, if I had the foresight to be born in 1890 and had the money to buy a rail car load of Colt SAA's in 45 LC, I could have put them in storage. THen if I could figure out a way to live a hundred years or so, I would have come out peaches !

But ... I'm just not that smart.

Cheers.

The owner of this board, Marshall Stanton, isn't charging anything for posting here, but he pays for the bandwidth. Richard expects a profit from his sales, so why shouldn't he get the extra traffic on his site and pay for it?

Bye
Jack

I know you are a moderator so I will be as delicate as I can. Except for the profit part, your quote suggests that I do what I did do, which is put the bandwidth on my site.

Cheers.

I love my guns but if you are collecting so that some day in the future you can make a killing...whoa! Now, if I had the foresight to be born in 1890 and had the money to buy a rail car load of Colt SAA's in 45 LC, I could have put them in storage. THen if I could figure out a way to live a hundred years or so, I would have come out peaches !

But ... I'm just not that smart.

Cheers.
Richard, this is a bit off topic, but I inherited a firearm that my Dad bought in the 1950s that he paid a grand total of $60 for at the time:

Winchester Model 1886
Made in 1891
Chambered for .45-90
In excellent shape - retains nearly 70% of the CCH on the left, about 40-50% on the right
Retains about 90-95% of the original bright bluing on the barrel
Stocks have a couple of minor dings, nothing major
Here's the kicker - it has a 22" barrel, confirmed by the factory letter I ordered from the Cody Firearms museum.

To put that into perspective, of the total production of 156,599 model 1886's produced, they made 8,436 with 22" barrels. Of these, 6,223 were carbines (22" was the standard barrel length for carbines) and 2,213 were rifles. Mine is one of the 2,213. I have yet to do research past that point, but of the 2,213, I'm not sure how many of those are "antique" - made prior to 1899, but I would venture to guess that it isn't too many.

Needless to say, it's worth just a tad more than what my Dad paid for it in the 1950s. :D

I think there are some points of principle to be clarified:

We moderators have, in fact, pulled links out of quite a number of signatures because they went to commercial sites, and for which links Marshall's prior permission had not been obtained to use this site and forum for that advertising. That act illuminates the source of the related rules: This forum and the whole Beartooth Bullet site are paid for by Marshall's business, so it is a commercial site. The forum's brick and mortar equivalent is what the law calls a public accommodation. An example would be a store or restaurant. It's a place the public is invited to attend, but which is privately owned and which, therefore, is operated under the owner's "rules, boundaries, and limitations".

Just as a store owner does not have to allow street vendors to put up tables in front of his doorways, or allow the local end-of-the-world preacher to start bellowing admonitions at the customers about what to prepare for, neither does this commercial site's owner have any obligation to accommodate unwanted behavior or comments, or to provide a free advertising medium for outside commercial activity. Since the business owns and runs the site for its profit, it is not unreasonable that persons wanting to advertise be expected to pay to help support the cost of keeping it up. This is no different than other commercial sites require. You all know links that pay a bounty for the traffic that comes through them are common on the web.

At the owner's discretion, a couple of exceptions are made. One is that a link to a supplier that helps answer a posted question or solve someone's problem is allowed, because giving answers to technical problems is consistent with Marshall's philosophy of encouraging the free exchange of information. The other is the Trading Post forum, which makes an exception for members selling individual items from time to time. The 25 post minimum and the 7 day waiting period requirements are to discourage persons from joining the board solely to sell things and who have no intention of contributing to or participating in the board otherwise. In effect, the price of admission is contributing to the forum, whether by asking questions others will benefit from answers to, or by posting answers to questions by others, or providing useful information by some other means. The 25 post and 7 day rule is an imperfect way to determine anyone's intent; it is just an obstacle that is too much bother for most of the insincere.

Persons just wanting to sell usually can be found to have placed identical ads at many other gun forums on the web. They want to sell something eBay won't let them sell. Sites like gunbroker.com are where they properly would do best, but, like eBay, they will pay a commission there.

450NE has apparently created a site specifically for selling his collection. It is a creative idea, that site, and he has taken on the cost of paying for the bulk of the bandwidth, which is way more considerate than the spam we pull down every week. On the other hand, if he is getting out of shooting sports he is not likely to be an ongoing board participant. We just haven't run into this before. It creates a new kind of gray area. We moderators are discussing it in our top secret undercover conspiracy cave, and may seek Marshall's input on the matter? It's just not a perfect world and no set rules anticipates every situation.

Wow. That's very cool, actually. You know, whatever you guys decide, I didn't come here to cause trouble. I have even attempted to make contact with "management" but have never heard back.

Nick, the only exception I would take to your statement above is your "presumptions" made about my future. You don't know me and you had to grasp that out of thin air because I have not said or insinuated anything of the sort. You apparently made the leap becuase I am wanting to get out from under a fairly substantial collection of guns because I am not in a position to enjoy them as I once did. Keeping them in storage just really isn't my style.

In fact, this morning, my wife and I were discussing our next African Safari.

And as far as contributing to the site. Well, I was kind of hoping that some folks enjoyed some of my posts ... but maybe not.

As far as contacting Marshall. All I can do is apologize. If I was a commercial enterprise it would never even occur to me to post my guns without contacting site managment. In fact, I am a paid advertiser on several fishing sites because I actively promote my fishing charter business. I know how that game is played.

If the situation was reversed and I was a gun dealer advertising on gun type web sites, and I had a collection of highly desirable fishing reels sitting in storage, it would never occur to me that I would cause problems by posting them on a fishing site.

Again. Love the site.

Cheers.

Nick - that clarified a lot of things regarding the rules of the site and the purpose of the Trading Post - thanks for posting that!

I'm with Richard though - this is a great site, I'm glad I found it, and I'll continue to post as long as it's here and as long as I continue to shoot and love firearms - i.e., the rest of my life! :D

TrickG,

Glad that helped.


Richard,

When your first post said you liked hunting but were entering the fishing stage of your life and that your were selling off the guns, it seemed a natural inference to draw that you were putting the shooting sports behind you. Sorry for any misunderstanding there.

Nick, no problem. Easy assumption to make. It's certainly true I've backed off a lot but I don't know if it would even be possible to get it out of my blood completely.

It's all good !

450NE -
Sent you a PM requesting a link, & then re-read your post which directs those interested to your profile. I know, I know..., read the instructions.

Fantastic collection! I'd like to comment on my favorite, but due to time & space constraints it will not be possible. There are just too many.

You are a lucky man to have kept company w/ these gems.

Good luck w/ your current enterprise in the Yucatan. Never been there, but heard it's a great place. I am envious.

Back when I THOUGHT I had some money, I ran a 25' Mako out of Port Aransas, TX. Never caught a lot of fish, but SURE HAD SOME FUN! Offshore is a kick.

GCF, Thanks for the PM and the kind words.

Yeah, fishing is pretty much like huntin'. Even if you don't get anything you usually have a pretty good time.

That's neat that you ran a charter. There's a great charter captain on the west coast who was quoted as saying that: "if you want to end up with a million dollars in the charter business, you'd better start out with ten million". LOL !

Pretty good advice. There's no way I can make enough to live on but I can supplement my income a little and hopefully have some fun. It's a great way to meet great people.

Thanks again,
Cheers.

ok;

as we have worked out the requirements of the trading post, and 45one has contacted marshall about his dealings,
Please PM 45 for his link, and let's keep this on track.

All other info needed from or about 45one, please use your PMs

450NE - I didn't see a price on the .22 LR - SS Ruger Varmint Rifle. How much are you asking for it?

Thx!

Bob

As stated above, contact the seller via the PM (Private Message) system. Click on the seller's name, then click on the Private Message in the left hand menu.