Date: July 14, 2008
Contact: Ed Mitchell
(208) 334-3700



wolf report: f&g investigates wolf killings


Idaho Fish and Game and federal officers are investigating three wolf killings.
A June 27 investigation showed a wolf killed by a sheepherder on June 21 on Thorne Butte in Boise County was determined to be legal under state law. The wolf was attacking the sheepherder's two border collies.

Officials investigated an illegally taken wolf in Casner Creek near Lowman. The wolf was shot with a small caliber rifle, either .22-250 or .223. The investigation is ongoing.

Fish and Game and U.S.D.A. Wildlife Service officers investigated a call that an Arco landowner and rancher had killed a wolf that was in with his cattle on the south side of Timbered Dome. The investigation showed that the take was legal under state law.

Wildlife Services on June 28 confirmed that wolves had killed a calf on BLM public land in the Pahsimeroi. This is the third confirmed depredation by this pack in the past two months. Wildlife Service killed two wolves on July 2 and 3.

On July 8, Wildlife Services investigated a report that wolves had killed several sheep on a Boise National Forest grazing allotment in Lester Creek, just west of Anderson Ranch Reservoir. The carcasses had deteriorated and federal agents could conclude only a "probable' wolf depredation on two sheep.

Wildlife Service confirmed on July 9 that wolves from the Galena pack killed a calf on private property near Obsidian.

Also on July 9, Wildlife Service confirmed that wolves killed a ewe and six lambs and injured another lamb that is unlikely to survive. The incident occurred between Burgdorf and the Salmon River on the Payette National Forest. Two days later, federal agents trapped and killed an adult, gray male and shot and killed another adult, gray male wolf that was seen chasing a guard dog.

On July 10, Wildlife Services confirmed that a pair of wolves killed a calf on private land on Smith's Prairie near Anderson Ranch Reservoir.

A wolf monitoring research project involving the University of Montana, Nez Perce Tribe and Idaho Fish and Game is in its second year and is off to a good start again this year. The field season is 40 percent complete and the scat survey crew has already collected more than 600 genetic samples. This does not mean a change in population but a refinement of the sampling protocol after learning from last year's field season.

The telemetry-howlbox crew continues to obtain data and pup counts - 66 percent of study packs have pup counts and breeding-pair determination - on packs in the four study areas. The crew also continues to test and refine the howlboxes, remote devices that track wolves by recording their howls. Field work will continue through August.

No decision has yet resulted from the May 28 Missoula court hearing on a preliminary injunction in a legal challenge to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's decision to delist gray wolves in the Northern Rocky Mountains.

The injunction was sought by 12 environmental, conservation and animal rights groups, pending the outcome of the lawsuit.

Since killing a wolf in your area is investigated like a major crime, it may be time for the three S rule. That's Shoot, Shovel and, Shut up about it. Absolutely NO bragging about it . Not even on the internet. You may be sent to prison and lose everything you own just for protecting your stock. The tree huggers don't realize the wolf, bear, and lions were killed off for a reason.

What this means is that Idaho’s wolves are not much better protected than Wyoming’s. This all came from the law slippped through the Idaho legislature on the very day of delisting, Feb. 28. which allows any owner of any kind of domestic animal to kill a wolf if it is molesting the animals, but “molesting” is defined to broadly that they can almost always claim a wolf was molesting. Here is the definitions as stated in the new law: Molesting means “the actions of a wolf that are annoying, disturbing or persecuting, especially with hostile intent or injurious effect, or chasing, driving, flushing, worrying, following after or on the trail of, or stalking or lying in wait for, livestock or domestic animals.”
“Worrying?” How can a person tell? “Annoying?,” how can this be proven or disproven without interviewing the horse or lamb? “Lying in wait for?” People who dislike wolves generally feel that any wolf they see is thinking of eating them or one of their animals — lying in wait.
Found this on a pro-wolf web site while looking for regulations for killing a wolf. I thought is was OK if you felt personaly "threatened" but apparently the same holds true for domestic stock. Best to know the law no matter the reason. I would look farther and will before hunting season this fall. Everyone of us that lives or hunts where the wolf runs free should know the law as best we can.

Edit: Pretty good answers from IDFG here.
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/wolves/livestockQA.pdf

I Spared you the pictures of dogs ripped in half.

Close encounter raises concerns about wolves
By Scott Richards - For the Idaho Press-Tribune Posted: Sunday, June 4, 2006 3:11 AM CDT Read Comments
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GRANGEVILLE — Hello. My name is Scott Richards. I have lived in Grangeville for the last 17 years. I have enjoyed training my hunting dogs for the past 34 years.

To do this it takes a great deal of love for your dogs and for the great outdoors. I have always prided myself in the manner of which I train my dogs and take care of them. When I choose a new pup, he or she spends the first 6 months in my house. He or she is loved and a bond is there forever.

I do not believe there are bad dogs, just inexperienced owners. I have spent the last four years trying to introduce this sport to as many young people as I can. My photo albums are full of pictures with children sitting under a tree with the dogs, telling them they did a good job. That has all changed now.

The reason I am writing this story is not to debate whether the Canadian gray wolf should be or should not be here. I am not going to debate anyone about how many wolves are really in the state of Idaho. I will say our elk, moose and deer populations are in serious trouble now.

The real reason I am telling this story is that I have a conscience, and what happened to my dogs and me Wednesday, May 24, at 9:45 a.m. might open a few eyes. It’s been a few days now, and the shock has turned from fear to disbelief to anger, and now the major concern for the safety of anyone who lives in or visits our state. My life that I have loved raising and training these special working dogs is now over.

Crying wolf

This Wednesday morning started like most days when I train dogs. I was a few miles from my house and turned up the hill on the Service Flats Road. I let my dogs out of the box, jumped into my truck and followed them up the road for a mile, letting them clean out. I had eight dogs with me, and seven of them were very experienced 2, 3 and 4-year-olds. I had one five-month-old pup. I loaded four dogs on top of the box and four inside the box. I did not have to drive far, and the dogs sounded off, letting me know a bear had crossed the road.

My friend, Bryon, had driven up from Lewiston to train some of his young dogs.

I turned out a 4-year-old named Jasper. He left the road and let me know the track was fresh. I told Bryon to turn his dogs loose as did I. They quickly dropped into a canyon, where bears hang in the brushy bottoms in daylight hours. When all the dogs reached the bottom, five went up the other side of the canyon headed toward Fish Creek campground. The other group of dogs came right back up the hill to us. They put the bears in a tree 20 minutes later.

The other group of dogs treed about the same time about 1 1/2 miles away. Bryon and I went to the nearest dogs first. When we were under the tree, we found they had a mature sow and a 2-year-old cub. We took a few pictures and were back in the trucks ready to go to the other dogs.

We drove back up to where we heard the group of five dogs top over and shortly thereafter tree the bear. We checked where the dogs still had the bear treed. We drove as close as we could and stopped and listened. They were about 400 yards away, treeing solid. I made the decision to move the truck 200 yards to the low side of the saddle; this would be an easy way back with the dogs. When Bryon and I crested the hill, instead of hearing a roar of barking dogs treeing, we heard nothing. We were looking at each other like, “Where did they go? We just heard them there five minutes ago.”

One dog barked, and another barked just 50 yards away. I said to Bryon that neither of the dogs we heard sounded like any of our dogs. He agreed. Then I heard a dog bark that I knew was mine, but at the end of his bark there was a sharp yelp. Bryon and I headed down the hill in a hurry about 75 yards apart.

About 300 yards down the hill I was stopped dead in my tracks by a big dark-colored wolf. Blackey, my dog, was getting attacked; I was 20 yards away now and closing fast, screaming and yelling as I ran. I stopped at about 12 feet from the wolf, and even though I was screaming and waving my arms, the wolf did not break from the attack. Every time Blackey tried to run, the wolf would sink his teeth into Blackey’s hindquarters. All the while I was screaming louder than I ever screamed in my life. Without any thought I picked up a 4-foot stick, stepped toward the wolf, swung and hit a tree. When the branch went crack and the tree went thud, the wolf instantly lunged at me.

I remember thinking I was going to die.

I ran from tree to tree straight up hill toward my truck. When that wolf lunged at me, I believed I would have been seriously hurt or dead if not for Blackey. I did not see what took place, but what I heard was my dog giving his life to save me. As I reached the truck, Bryon was digging around in his truck for a gun. As I ran up he started yelling, “We got wolves.” I was trying to listen to him as I was searching for a gun as I took my pistol in my hand and turned toward Bryon.

When I looked into his eyes I realized I was not the only one threatened by wolves. We headed back down to see if we could save Blackey, Lady or Halley, but there was no sound. I wanted to hear a bell dingle or a bark, but nothing. As Bryon and I hurried back to the truck to get my tracking box, I finally understood that Bryon was able to fight off three wolves and save two dogs. Snyper and Bullet were safe in the dog box with no life-threatening injuries.

With the tracking box in hand, I tuned in on Lady’s tracking collar and said to Bryon, “Not Lady, not Lady,” but I knew she was dead. Then I tuned to Blackey and told Bryon that Blackey was dead, and then I tuned in Halley’s collar. One beep every four seconds — that means all three dogs had not moved for at least five minutes. All dead. I was just standing there in shock.

We decided to look for Halley first. We were getting real close; the receiver was pegging the needle. I knew that with a few more steps I would be looking at one of my babies.

My heart skipped a beat when Halley’s tree switch went off. I didn’t know if she was alive or if a wolf was dragging her off. We ran the direction the needle was pointing, and in a few yards there she was. She was trying to get up; her stomach was ripped open and her guts were hanging out a foot. She had more than 60 bite marks and deep gashes all over her body. Her stomach was torn in multiple spots.

Bryon went into action. Of came his shirt, and we wrapped it tightly around her stomach. I carried her back to Bryon’s truck and put her in the front seat; Brian headed for the vets. I remember thinking I wouldn’t see Halley alive again.

I started tracking Blackey next; it did not take long to find him. He wasn’t far from where the wolf came after me. He was dead and lying in a pool of his own blood. He was bit and torn so full of holes that I just fell to the ground bawling and crying. I could not quit thinking, “He gave his life to save me.” I was sitting there when it hit me: “Lady! I’d better get to Lady.” When I tuned her in, I knew she was within a 100 yards. I lined up with her collar, and the next thing I knew there she was in a heap, her eyes wide open, looking straight into my eyes. For one second I thought she might be alive. When I knelt down beside her, I knew she was dead.

It’s very difficult to describe the type of death these dogs were handed. It was easy to see that the wolves want to cripple their prey, torture it and then kill it. I have never seen a worse way for any animal or person to die.

I made it back to town and took care of my dogs who made it through this nightmare that happened in the light of day. Then I headed to see if Halley needed to be buried. When I walked into the veterinarian’s office, I was greeted with, “Did you find the rest of your dogs?” I tried to say they were all dead, but I could not get the words out; all I could do was cry.

After a few minutes standing alone, I heard a voice behind me say, “Halley is still alive; do you want to see her?” I instantly headed for the back room, and when I turned the corner I saw this little black ball covered in stitches — swollen twice her normal size.

I stopped and said out loud, “Oh my God, Halley, what have they done to you?” When she heard me say her name, she lifted her head, whined and waged her tail. I kneeled down, held her and comforted her — the whole time wondering if she was the lucky one, or were Blackey and Lady the lucky ones? When I looked into her eyes it was easy to see the only reason she was still alive: the wolf had choked her out.

Her eyes were full of blood; they had left her for dead. The doctor said it was a miracle she was alive at all. Her lungs were badly damaged, but what most concerned us all was infection from all the tears and bites.

I knew this little dog had more heart and desire than a 1,200-pound grizzly bear, and yet was as gentle with my granddaughters as my chocolate lab. If it were just a fight with infection, she would win.

On the way home I called the Idaho Fish and Game to report what had happened. They were very understanding, and I could tell they were sincere when they said they were sorry for my loss. They also made it clear there was nothing they could do for me and that their hands were tied. They said they would write the report and call a federal agent.

Justin, the government trapper, contacted me by phone and arranged to meet me at first light. We were at the site of the attack early the next morning. We went to the site where I had laid Lady in the shade.

She was gone without a trace.

I took Justin to where Blackey was laying, and he had also disappeared. We searched around and found nothing. About that time a crow down below me called three times, so we walked toward the sound.

It did not take long before we were standing over the remains of the dog that saved me from harm. All that was left of him was his head and backbone. Had we been an hour later, there would have been nothing left of him.

We had spooked the wolves off while they were finishing their prey. In five hours all we found of Lady was a pile of fresh wolf scat full of white, brown and black dog hair. Lady was a tri-colored walker — that color.

Justin and I buried what was left of Blackey. We piled heavy stones on his grave, and I walked away thinking that it could have been me. I could have been just a pile of wolf scat lying on the ground and leaving people to wonder where I had disappeared to.

I couldn’t help but think of the 22-year-old man who was killed and eaten by wolves in Canada this winter. There’s been a slaughter on hound dogs and pets in Idaho, and it is getting worse daily. I have been assured that if these wolves kill any cows, sheep, goats, pigs or horses, they will become a problem and will be dealt with, and the owners will be compensated.

That’s a relief.

Dogs have no value to anyone in the government, it seems.

So what I love to do is over; I will not send another dog to slaughter or feed another starving wolf pack. My concerns now are that the wolves are running out of easy prey and are now eating dogs.

In wet, muddy areas where elk and moose have always been plentiful, I no longer can find even a track.

Perhaps aliens took them off to a safer planet. I hope you did not find that funny.

This is the first documented case in Idaho where wolves have eaten a dog after killing it. The real reason I had to write this story is public safety.

The general public is unaware of the danger that awaits them. Since I retired, I have spent no less than four days a week in the mountains. What has amazed me are how many of these wolves are right around people’s homes. When they are out of easy prey, be ready.

For as long as I can remember, when you were in the mountains for any reason, a dog by your side was a great defense to warn you of predators. I used to believe in this. But now a dog is nothing more than bait to lure wolves.

Recently, while cougar hunting, an associate of mine, who is a licensed guide like myself, had a wolf encounter. He was cougar hunting with a dog on a leash when three wolves charged up on him. With waving arms and a screaming voice, he was able to persuade them to leave, but what if they had been a little hungrier? Your natural instinct will be to defend your companion. I am not saying you should leave your friend at home, but be prepared.

Put a bell or a beeper on him or her so you know where they are at all times.

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to pack a firearm. I personally believe pepper spray will not work in a pack attack. Keep your dogs quiet when you are walking — no barking. If they are tied up in camp, no barking. And don’t let your children play with your pets and have them barking while they’re playing.

My personal belief is that the war has been lost. It’s too late to save our big-game herds in my lifetime.

What I have loved to do for most of my life is over, so enjoy it while you still can. Be prepared. I pray you never encounter a pack of Canadian gray wolves.

What do you think?

What’s your reactions to the reintroduction efforts of wolves into Idaho and the western states?

Your story breaks my heart.

I can't give advice, other than to pack a sidearm when out in the woods.

I'd definetly want revenge.

here in carolina .. if that sort of threat were to come about.. it would not be be spoken of much..
the wild life folks try to do a good job.. but you can t expect them to be everywhere..
nuff said..you have my sympathy.

Twelveknuckles,
All I can say is I wish there were more "wolf kill" reports than what you list!

All I can say is after having a grey fox sneak up within 6' of me while I was watching a nice whitetail buck, and having left my rifle at home that day, is, I havent repeated my mistake. You never know when a firearm may save your, a friends, or even your pets life. I'm sorry for your loss, and I wish I would have done the same, but when I saw the one dog being attacked, I would have told him thanks for his sacrifice as I was in high gear for the truck. And would have only come back after I had found my firearm. Secondly, if you were treeing bear, why didn't you have a sidearm with you? Again, I'm sorry for you loss, and hope that it doesnt happen again.

Twelveknuckles,
I believe I have seen the pictures you spoke of in a store front window in Grangeville awhile back, they were not pretty to say the least.

We rode the motorcycle's up to the Lowman ponds last week, and my friend showed me how and where a wolf was sneaking up on him and his dog a couple of weeks prior. It had gotten surprisingly close and took a gutsy critter to be that near to a man on purpose. Since his incident I heard a wolf had been killed in the area and wondered if it was the same animal.
I never really thought much about needing a gun along in the woods here in Idaho till just lately, but will be armed at all times from now on I do believe.


All I can say is after having a grey fox sneak up within 6' of meI sat in a camper early one morning west of the Challis Idaho area, and watched my Dad as he walked away to a restroom in the campground we were staying at. A red fox began to follow him getting as close behind him as 20 or 30 feet then following for 100 yards or so. After Dad entered the RR another fox appeared and the two then frolicked in the general area till Dad opened the door, then both ran for cover. Dad never had a clue either was there till he returned and I told him about it.

I want to make sure everyone understands that the dog/wolf story is a quoted story; it did not happen to me.

I maintain a perimeter, so to speak.

By The Associated Press
KETCHUM, Idaho (AP) _ As Idaho awaits a federal decision to delist its wolves, conflicts between the predators and ranchers in the central part of the state have re-emerged with the coming of spring.

A rancher south of Sun Valley last month shot a wolf he says had been harassing livestock on private land.

Federal rules allow ranchers to shoot wolves that are disrupting their cattle or sheep.

The rancher killed the wolf, a 90-pound female, on March 19th.

Then on March 27th, federal Wildlife Services agents confirmed other wolves had killed a calf on the same private land near Picabo, Idaho.

They're now trying to remove the wolf or wolves that did it

Below is the list of FAQ from Idaho Fish and Game:

Questions and answers for livestock owners protecting their animals from wolves, black bears and mountain lions.

Q: What does Idaho law say about livestock owners protecting their livestock?
A: Idaho Code 36-1107(b and c) – The law states: b) Control of Depredation of Black Bear, Mountain Lion, and Predators. Black bear, mountain lion, and predators may be disposed of by livestock owners, their employees, agents and animal damage control personnel when same are molesting or attacking livestock and it shall not be necessary to obtain any permit from the department. Mountain lion so taken shall be reported to the director within ten (10) days of being taken. Livestock owners may take steps they deem necessary to protect their livestock.

(c) Control of Depredation of Wolves. Wolves may be disposed of by livestock or domestic animal owners, their employees, agents and animal damage control personnel when the same are molesting or attacking livestock or domestic animals and it shall not be necessary to obtain any permit from the department. Wolves so taken shall be reported to the director within seventy-two (72) hours, with additional reasonable time allowed if access to the site where taken is limited. Wolves so taken shall remain the property of the state. Livestock and domestic animal owners may take all nonlethal steps they deem necessary to protect their property. A permit must be obtained from the director to control wolves not molesting or attacking livestock or domestic animals. Control is also permitted by owners, their employees and agents pursuant to the Idaho department of fish and game harvest rules.

Q: If I find livestock I believe was attacked or killed by wolves, bears, or mountain lions, what should I do?
A: If you believe your livestock or pets have been killed by a wolf, bear, or mountain lion you should attempt to protect the evidence by placing a tarp over the carcass, take photographs of the carcass and the immediate area, tracks, etc., limit disturbance of the site, and immediately call either U.S.D.A. Wildlife Services at 1-866-487-3297; or call your local Idaho Fish and Game office at the numbers below. If the carcass is verified by Wildlife Services to have been killed by a wolf, bear, or mountain lion it may be possible to receive reimbursement for the loss. It is important to contact officials immediately when either livestock or a wolf has been killed to expedite the process and to maximize evidence associated with the investigations.

Q: When I see a wolf, lion, or black bear on my property what can I do?
A: “Molesting" shall mean the actions of a wolf, bear or lion that are annoying, disturbing or persecuting, especially with hostile intent or injurious effect, or chasing, driving, flushing, worrying, following after or on the trail of, or stalking or lying in wait for, livestock or domestic animals. If a wolf, bear or lion is merely in the general area and not molesting your animals, it can not be killed under this law. If the wolf, bear, or lion is merely feeding on a carcass but has not been seen attacking or molesting, it can not be killed; that animal may have died from other causes. If you are concerned about your livestock, you should contact Fish and Game or Wildlife Services. The Department will help you monitor the situation and may be able to assist in preventing a potential problem.


Q: Will I get a ticket if I shoot a wolf, lion or black bear that is molesting my dog or horse?
A: The Idaho Department of Fish and Game believes that a person should be able to protect their private property including all domestic animals. Protecting your animals is allowed, but the Department is also obligated to assure the killing was legitimate. Everything you can do to help demonstrate what happened is in your best interest, including protecting the site and reporting the incident in a timely fashion to the department.


Q: If I shoot a wolf, lion, or black bear to protect my animals, what do I have to do?
A: If you kill a wolf or a mountain lion, you are required to report it to the Department of Fish and Game. In order to preserve the carcass and assure that the animal was taken legally, the kill should be reported as soon as reasonably possible. Under this law, killing a wolf requires reporting within 72 hours, with additional reasonable time allowed if access to the site where taken is limited. Killing a mountain lion requires reporting within 10 days. However, to assure the animal was taken legally, it is in your best interest to preserve the site and report the killing of the animal as soon as possible, including bears. Additionally, a wolf, bear or a lion may be killed by a tag holder during the open season and must be reported to IDFG within 24 hours for wolves, and within 10 days for bears and lions.

Q: If the wolf, lion, or black bear has killed my livestock or caused a safety problem or property damage, but it is not caught molesting or attacking, can I still kill it?
A: If a wolf, black bear or mountain lion has recently killed or injured your legally present livestock or domestic animals, or has caused real or significant property damage, and/or shows a continued threat to property or human safety you may request a “kill” permit from the Director. You should contact the Department if you are having problems with wildlife and the Department representative will review alternatives including non lethal techniques to reduce or eliminate potential conflicts. Hunting, including the use of depredation hunts will be considered a preferred alternative.


Q: Can I keep the wolf, lion or bear I killed to protect my livestock?
A: No. Unless it was legally taken during hunting season and you have legally tagged the animal it remains the property of the State of Idaho. You may however, be able to purchase it at the Department of Fish and Game’s annual fur and antler auction depending on the State’s disposition of the carcass.


Q: What about other predators?
A: Coyotes, skunks, weasels, and jackrabbits are legally defined as predators. They may be taken year-round by any licensed hunter. Landowners, or their agents are not required to have a license to kill these predators if they are molesting domestic animals. Grizzly bears, eagles, hawks, and owls are protected by federal law and may not be killed. Grizzly bears in the Yellowstone delisted area are no longer protected under federal law, but are protected under state law and currently there is no open season on them. Grizzly bears may be killed in self-defense. Grizzly bears may not be killed to protect livestock. You should contact the Department if you are having grizzly bear problems.

Help us manage wolves!
More information and wolf reporting forms are available at http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/wolves/ . If you believe you have a wolf depredation contact Wildlife Services at: 1-866-487-3297. For a wolf mortality, or other related incident requiring immediate attention, contact your local IDFG Office at:

My Son and I will be fishing in that area in 2 weeks. I think the 357 will come with me. Usually my Lab is also along so I will keep good tabs on him. I have always had a pump shotgun in the tent.

Please be aware that any other canine presence is taken as a challenge by wolves; they are highly social and built for killing first; then survival. They kill for sport; proven so many times; so be very careful about taking a lab into wolf country. Good security system as far as making noise if wolves approach- but dangerous in that wolves will get aggressive about any other canine presence.

"The domestic dog is an extremely close relative of the gray wolf, differing from it by at most 0.2% of mDNA sequence..."

The pack that you may encounter already has it's pecking order; and you lab will not fit anywhere in it; it would be a kill target.

Your dog would bark before they got to it, but also you are much more likely to have problems with a dog than without.

Dozer Twelveknuckles is giving you good advice. If your planning on being in an area with a wolf population and leaving your dog home is an alternative take the alternative. Our cat and bear hunters here have had their dog packs decimated.

Read the story he posted above and think carefully about what it says about having your pet with you. I simply don't take my dog to the woods anymore.

Below is the list of FAQ from Idaho Fish and Game:

Questions and answers for livestock owners protecting their animals from wolves, black bears and mountain lions.



Q: What about other predators?
A: Coyotes, skunks, weasels, and jackrabbits are legally defined as predators. They may be taken year-round by any licensed hunter. Landowners, or their agents are not required to have a license to kill these predators if they are molesting domestic animals. Grizzly bears, eagles, hawks, and owls are protected by federal law and may not be killed. Grizzly bears in the Yellowstone delisted area are no longer protected under federal law, but are protected under state law and currently there is no open season on them. Grizzly bears may be killed in self-defense. Grizzly bears may not be killed to protect livestock. You should contact the Department if you are having grizzly bear problems.

Help us manage wolves!
More information and wolf reporting forms are available at http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/wolves/ . If you believe you have a wolf depredation contact Wildlife Services at: 1-866-487-3297. For a wolf mortality, or other related incident requiring immediate attention, contact your local IDFG Office at:

I'm relieved...we can still kill skunks and jackrabbits w/out having to prove they were attacking us or our animals. We're still in the "land of the free".

Yes, the bunnies in Idaho have a knack of chewing the hamstrings through on horses and cattle before they can defend themselves.

But if you lay a piece of rope around them....

Dozer Twelveknuckles is giving you good advice. If your planning on being in an area with a wolf population and leaving your dog home is an alternative take the alternative. Our cat and bear hunters here have had their dog packs decimated.

Read the story he posted above and think carefully about what it says about having your pet with you. I simply don't take my dog to the woods anymore.


We will be fishing the S Clearwater. About 10-15 miles below Elk City. Same area we have fished for years. We do not venture into the woods, mainly stay along the highway/river. Dog is usually in the truck and gets out only when we are just letting him swim a bit. So far I have not seen any sign nor heard any howls in the area.

We will be fishing the S Clearwater. About 10-15 miles below Elk City. Same area we have fished for years. We do not venture into the woods, mainly stay along the highway/river. Dog is usually in the truck and gets out only when we are just letting him swim a bit. So far I have not seen any sign nor heard any howls in the area.

Be listening just at dusk, that's when we hear them. They will howl to gather to hunt, then turn it off just like clicking a switch. It's a totally different sound than coyotes make and once they gather they stop making noise and go hunting. Pretty eerie sound.

Tough subject, I know I wonder if I have enough firepower in the woods in Idaho. I go to some remote areas and fish. Depending on the average pack I would be fine given enough warning. In the last month I have run in to 2 bear and 2 cougar. all within 30 yards. I have fished and hunted in Idaho for the last 14 years and not seen any of the prior animals. This year has been dynamic.

Check THIS out boys, right here in Idaho again!



Wolves kill six hunting dogs in attack near Kamiah


Incident took place Sunday in Smith Ridge area as dogs were chasing bears in pursuit-only season

By Eric Barker

Thursday, July 24, 2008

A family of hound hunters is mourning the deaths of six of their dogs that were killed by wolves on Sunday.

Jake, Steve and Mike Schilling of Kamiah were running several of their Walker hounds in the Smith Ridge area on Sunday during a summer pursuit season in which hunters can use dogs to tree bears but can't shoot them. Drex Schilling, the men's father, said three of the dogs treed a bear and were baying. At about the same time, more dogs went in another direction.

He said radio collars worn by the first group of three dogs indicated they had treed a bear. The collars send a signal when the dogs lift their heads to bark at a treed bear.

When the men walked to where the bear was treed, the other dogs started baying. But by the time they reached the second group, they could only hear one of the dogs, 7-year-old Mickey. Schilling said his sons thought that was odd. When they got about 200 yards away from the dog they heard a big ruckus followed by silence.

"Lady dog came out of the woods and Michael couldn't get her to go back down in there and be with Mickey after the big commotion and then silence."

He said his son soon found Mickey dead.

"Mickey dog is almost a legend in this area," Schilling said. "Just a heck of an animal."

They started looking for the other dogs. The tracking device they were using was receiving a weak signal. The men returned to Kooskia to get another tracking device, but when they got back, the signal was still weak.

They searched the area and soon found Whiskey and Vic, both dead. They walked another hundred yards and found two more dead dogs, 2-year-old Lochsa and a 6-month-old puppy. Then they found Dora.

"They didn't think she was alive," he said. "She started wiggling her tail a little bit and they packed her out of there."

But Dora died while they were on the way to a veterinarian.

"They made it clear to Ferdinand and she died," Schilling said.

Like many hunters, Schilling is dismayed over the recent ruling that returned wolves to federal protection. He thinks there are many more wolves in Idaho than the 700 to 800 wildlife biologists estimate.

"If you want to get a pretty correct count on what's in the woods you should contact the houndsmen of Idaho. They know," he said. "Every winter it gets worse and worse. There are days you see 20 wolf tracks and only one elk track."

He also doesn't understand people fighting to keep wolves protected under the Endangered Species Act and suspects they want to stop the sport of hunting.

"I love all animals and I think a wolf is gorgeous but how many people do you see in the woods enjoying wolves. Why would they want to see one animal instead of 10," he said. "They are trying to stop all hunting."

Fish and Game officials recommend hound hunters check the areas they are hunting for wolf tracks before they turn their dogs loose and to try to stay close to them to ward off wolf attacks. Wolves are territorial and will kill other canines they encounter.

Schilling said that approach might work during winter mountain lion season when tracks in the snow show if wolves are in the area. But in the spring and summer when the snow is long gone, it's much more difficult to determine if wolves are nearby. Schilling also said a running bear can cover great distances before it is treed, making it difficult to stay close.

"If you get a running bear he might go 15 miles, you have no clue," he said. "Some bears tree in half an hour, some never tree, it's something you can't get a handle on."

Schilling said his son Steve has lost seven hounds to wolves now and all three of his boys are questioning how much longer they can participate in hound hunting. The dogs are pets and a good hound can be worth $10,000 or more.

"They are just like your family. People have pet dogs and hounds are the same way," he said. "You get a good smart hound and you have something pretty precious."

The men returned to the area Tuesday to document the attack with a trapper from the Federal Wildlife Services agency. George Fischer, a conservation officer for the Idaho Department of Fish and Game, said the only tactic he has heard that helps prevent wolf attacks on hound dogs is to try to stay as close to them as possible. But he also said many hound hunters now believe luck plays a bigger role.

"You just don't know anymore," he said.

Fischer also worries if hunters are close when wolves and hounds interact they could become injured. He's seen plenty of domestic dogs get into fights and tried to break them up.

"They could care less that you are there," he said. "I fear it would be the same thing with a hound dog and a wolf."

Friday's ruling by Judge Donald Molloy in Missoula, Mont., nixes a wolf hunting season planned for this fall. But people are permitted to kill wolves to defend pets and livestock in the act of being attacked or pursued by wolves.

Guess you COULD use dogs for bait!
Just kidding, would never let a DOG get hurt!

What a shame. Wonder how judge Malloy will feel when someone is killed, not 'just' dogs. I value my dogs over some people, mind you! Well, if anyone is going to use a dog as bait, make it a parvo dog....

Might have to take care of this problem ourselves. I'm probably under 'watch' now from "Defenders of Wildlife" volunteers now, so you guys will have to go do the dirty work!:D

No wonder so much trouble up in Bob's area and around the larger general area of Lowman and more.

This is a worth looking at map, but I have seem one wolf in a area not highlighted on this map, and just Saturday heard second hand of a F&G fella seeing 7 in the Owyhee County area.
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/wildlife/wolves/state/07_activity_map.pdf

Sounds like they need an electronic caller with baying hounds on it. "No dog will be hurt in the making of this tape", can't say the same for preditors!!

What really gets thier attention is smell, especially urine markings that every canine makes;they take this as a challenge.

Guess you could pack a "squirt" gun.

PRAIRIE -- Biologists say wolves aren't a threat to human safety, but one Idaho hunter says he was afraid for his life when he ran into a pack while bow hunting.

Richard Besendorfer has bow hunted for years, saying he's even encountered wolves in the wild. But this season while hunting mule deer in Unit 39, an encounter got scary.

"I knew there was wolves in the general area but... I'd never seen one in the general area and didn't think that I'd have any issues there either," said Besendorfer. But he says he did have an issue when he noticed a pack of wolves chasing elk, and then they noticed him.

"They [saw] my movement, I guess, and came directly toward me and my first instinct was to run but for some reason I just tried to keep my composure and just kept working down the ridge towards where my camp was and they followed me all the way down the ridge," he said.

Besendorfer says the wolves surrounded his tent for hours.

"I left my zipper open a couple inches and I'd look out every once in awhile and sometimes three feet away there'd be a wolf standing there by the side of the tent," Besendorfer said.

Idaho Fish and Game wolf biologist Steve Nadeau says he gets 50 or 60 wolf reports from hunters during the season, and that this year the area near Prairie has been particularly active. The state has already removed two packs in that area this year, and that Besendorfer's sighting of what he believes was seven wolves could be a new pack or part of the Steel Mountain Pack, which has been in the area for awhile.

Nadeau isn't worried about human safety, saying wolves are naturally curious.

"They didn't run after me or anything, it was more like a curiosity kind of thing, I think, but it was still very [unsettling,]" admitted Besendorfer.

However, the reports do prompt biologists to investigate whether new packs have formed. They are currently focusing on an area several miles south of Lewiston, near Council, the area north of Prairie, and close to Mackay.

"And we're having packs show up in areas where we probably don't want them to," said Nadeau, "Our research indicated that the best quality habitat is already occupied." That means young wolves dispersing looking for mates to create new packs are setting up on the fringes of Idaho forest lands. That also puts them closer to private land, livestock, and population centers.

"They're spreading out... and it's bringing them closer to home," said Besendorfer. In fact, biologists say it wouldn't be a surprise to see wolves in the Boise Foothills this winter, and that they've been there before.

"We've had wolves up there reported beyond Bogus Mountain and we've had wolves reported up Mores Creek and we've had wolves reported fairly close to Boise," said Nadeau, "When the game comes down I suspect wolves will be up on the hills, it's certainly no need to panic."

He says the state has the authority to eliminate wolves if they have conflicts with people. However, some biologists, like Curt Mack with the Nez Perce tribe, believe that the wolves will run out of viable habitat before the population gets so large it pushes packs into population centers.

Nadeau agrees, saying that the yearly 20 percent growth in the Idaho wolf population will eventually slow. But Besendorfer doesn't believe his encounter was a solitary case, and thinks hunters and outdoor enthusiasts will have to protect themselves.

"It's gonna change the way that we hunt and it's going to have to change the way that we're prepared going into the forest," he said. Besendorfer says, for the first time since he started bow hunting, he carries a sidearm with him into the woods for protection.

Nadeau says though you are able to legally kill a wolf in self defense, common sense is a better tool. He says if wolves approach you, don't run, but yell loudly and try to look as large as you can. Also keep dogs closely leashed when in wolf territory. Most times, wolves ignore humans, and it's an experience to enjoy more than fear.

"Wolves are part of Idaho now I think it's time people begin to understand their behaviors and realize that they're just another animal out there on the hill trying to earn a living," said Nadeau.

I beg to differ.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A07EFD9173BE733A2575AC1A9679C94 6397D6CF

Kind of puts a problematic hinge pin in the wolf advocates claim that there's "...never been a documented case of a wolf killing a human..."...."...in modern times...". Or, something like that. Of course, we know about the young fellow that was killed in Canada in much more recent times.

I've met Steve Nadeau at one of the F&G presentations they've put on in communities around the state of Idaho. He seems to be a reasonable person. F&G isn't the enemy here. They, and us, are under the heavy hand of the ESA, and the well-funded anti-hunting forces that brought the suit to stop delisting.

Tell me about Canada?

Here you go Twelveknuckles.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2007/11/01/wolf-verdict.html

Check this out!

http://www.prosts.com/Article-Wolf-Attacks.htm

Wolf attacks on humans are much more common than the pro-wolfies will report, this is our future-more wolf attacks and less people apt to go into the woods because of them.

I guess this is another ingredient that can be thrown into the mix I had not thought of before.
http://www.canislupus.info/index_files/7855722ebf687b3258e68cf9fd25b29a-5.html

Stupid is as stupid does; I wonder if we get meth addicts under control or eradicated; if they will decide that they were part of society and need re-introduced.

Look the government has established a hotline to keep you safe... No thanks I'll stick to me ruger, remington, winchester, marlin, glock, or whatever else I have at hand. I tell you one thing, a wolf is within 15 yards of my tent and I have a bow with broadheads, it is a bad day to be a wolf.

Could we reintroduce the black plague, it was just part of nature!

Heading fishing on Mon. The new plan is the dog sleeps in the back of the truck, Locked in, and not in the tent. I bought an inverter. I will take my boat battery and hook it up with a motion sensor flood light. It will wake me up and provide shooting light!!

Let us know how it went, sounds like you have an excellent plan!

Check out the warning.

http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx?articlepath=APNews\US\20080427\Huntin g_Wolves_20080427.xml&cat=us&subcat=&pageid=1

Heading fishing on Mon. The new plan is the dog sleeps in the back of the truck, Locked in, and not in the tent. I bought an inverter. I will take my boat battery and hook it up with a motion sensor flood light. It will wake me up and provide shooting light!!

A twelve volt motion light, or 120 using the inverter?

A twelve volt motion light, or 120 using the inverter?

Very large deep cycle boat battery (my troller battery) hooked to a 400 watt inverter (to 110VAC) and 2 75 watt flood lights in the motion sensor. **** rodents and bears will probably keep me awake all night!! One area we stayed in had moose in camp with us.

Better Days

That is an old article from April. Wolves were placed back on the endangered list in July by a federal judge.

This is now.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19wolves.html

That is an old article from April. Wolves were placed back on the endangered list in July by a federal judge.

This is now.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19wolves.html

Ya, Marlin- that's why I called the post "better days"

The truckers nowadays are calling empty trailers "federal judge brains" instead of "dispatch brains"

Thanks for the article, Marlin!

Don't forget your shovel dozer!

Enemy judge Malloy cited Wyoming's plans as a basis for his placing the wolves back on ESA status. Any excuse will do when you're looking for one, but WY has been a hindrance throughout this whole process. While I do admire the States' stubborness, I think they need to accept that wolves are here and that applying a mountain lion-style hunt as management of the animal is acceptable. WY has delayed progression of the hunting of wolves in the other states most affected.

murphy says check and see how much light time you get with that set up. Might have a dead battery at 5 am....

murphy says check and see how much light time you get with that set up. Might have a dead battery at 5 am....

Trade the 75 watt for 2- 26 watt compact flourescents, more light; less energy.

How was the trip, dozer?
Did you incur any wolf action?

Actually I used 2 50 watt halogens on a 4 min on cycle. Didn't need much light!! Did not have any problems. Never saw a wolf or any sign. I watched the sand in the stream sides. Saw deer tracks but nothing else. In spite of that, I never let the dog out of sight and I always had the 357 with me.

Camp was no problem either. The forrest service had big sign where we usually camp, "no camping". Did not make my day. We had to go to a "public" camp. It was almost empty with camps about 100 yds apart. Guys next to us (gold miners) had a radio at full blast with a talk show on it. Can't blame the wolves for not coming around. I was ready to bite him when he finally turned it off.

Fishing?? Caught a lot of fish. Sound good?? It wasn't!! Couldn't keep the minnow trout off the line long enough for a real fish to get at it. Biggest thing we got was 8" brookies. I tried every fly I had, floaters, sinkers, big, little, and streamers. All the same. It hit the water and they were after it. Odd brains. Some of the streamers were bigger than some of the fish and they still hit it. Couldn't hardly get their mouth over the hook. Looks like the late season fishing needs to be done some place other than that!!

Glad you made it in and out allright, The radio may have been to ward something off, but I agree with you.

Beautiful country though, and you know what they say about the worst day fishin'!!

Some more information.
Please, post any sightings you may have while hunting this fall.

http://www.kpvi.com/Global/story.asp?S=8731820&nav=menu546_3_11

However..A person must realize that when entering into the territory of wolves...The wolf pack will protect that territory with it's life.....What you came upon was probably the Alpha male of the pack....The very move you shouldn't have made, you made....Never try to stand up to an Alpha male regardless of the price you must pay...He will accept it as a challenge on his territory and protect it with an attitude that you've never seen before....And remember, Alpha males won't back down from a challenge....I'm telling you this for future encounters with wolves...Treat em like grizzlies...They will not backup when protecting what they consider theirs....White Wolf

I just spent 11 days in an area supposed to be lousy with them. We had fresh wolf tracks around camp every morning and heard them howling in the evenings, but, saw nary a one. Didn't see any elk or deer either. Local cattlemen said they've never seen so little game while rounding up their cows in this area near Pierce Idaho.

We've had a couple of wolf/people interactions here in Idaho, but no one has been attacked yet. They've really cleaned up the dog packs local guys run cats and bears with over the last few years though.

Well, I'm sorry that I don't have any 'wolf killing' reports :rolleyes: but here's a photo taken I think within the last two weeks - not my photo; likely not in the last week given the absence of snow. But, that's not a pack of black labs! These wolves are 8-10 miles north of Ketchum, ID.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z210/shwncrea/image.jpg