Ok i have the new mossberg gun guide and they have an article on there new 464 lever gun, in it they say that there only competitor in the lever gun arena is marlin and the 336. Now i like mossberg i have a few of there guns and a new 464 would be sweet, but I feel and this is just me, they will never beat Marlin in lever guns!!!!!!:D What dose everyone else think??

I have had numerous Winchester and Marlin lever actions over my life. I still have Marlins but no Winchesters with the exception of two hierloom 92's.

I do like my Marlins, and Mossberg at one time was pretty much the same gun.

Now I've seen the Mossberg, (improved winchester clone) and it looks like they have done a lot of reseach on the levergun. Just too bad they spoiled the whole thing by putting a safety where you could mount a tang sight. That pretty much spelled the obituary for the win 94 in my book. To come out with a new gun with that same drawback is not right. I personally like the design up to the safety. The round bolt and top straps for mounting a scope is good.

While I am far from the most ardent Marlin supporter, having handled the the new Mossberg, there is no contest. The Marlin has far better materials (wood), fit and finish. If you are still thrilled by the Mossberg design, you would be far ahead to simply find a used Winchester.

Now I've seen the Mossberg, (improved winchester clone) and it looks like they have done a lot of reseach on the levergun. Just too bad they spoiled the whole thing by putting a safety where you could mount a tang sight. That pretty much spelled the obituary for the win 94 in my book.

I know this will cause a firestorm. The complaint about the saftey on the tang is the same type of complaint about the cross bolt safety. With the cross bolt safety all you have to do is push an easily reachable little button on the side of reciever to work it unlrees of course you have severe arthritis or some other malady that restricts the use of your hands. Bunches of you old timers compalined about and somebody put the saftey on the tang which is even easier to use. Now we get more complaining about the new tang safety because someone is inconvienced because he "can't" put a tang sight on the rifle. This sounds to me that there are a bunch of old timers out there that are to lazy to use their safeties when they are out hunting or at the range. And you old timers should know better. I knew a guy that was in Vietnam that told me that while his unit was on patrol They had more casualties caused by people that failing to use their safeties and accidently shot someone in the derrier than from enemy fire.

old timer or not, exposed hammer guns do not need safties, they already have them. With transfer bars and half cock, its a redundant system. My favorite is a single shot shotgun, exposed hammer and a side mounted saftey.... If you don't want the gun to fire, dont cock it. How would you feel if Ruger decided to add a crossbolt saftey to their revolvers?

Well, and the point of the safety, at least on my Marlin lever action rifle, is that I can leave the hammer fully cocked or at least half-cocked with round in the chamber and the safety on, and no danger of the thing going off - until I want to shoot it, and then I can just push a little button. Works fine. I use it. But if you want to leave the hammer down, and with no round in the chamber, then, agreed, you don't need it. But I think pushing the safety button is easier and faster than chambering a round and pulling the hammer back, regardless of whether I do it with the trigger or my thumb.

the guys that grew up without them do not like them, and the guys that grow up with them like them. the best safty is the person carrying the gun regardless of all the devices they put on the gun. i use chainsaws without chain brakes, and they are safe, unless someone is used to a chainsaw with one and forgets his saw does not have one.i am younger so the safties on my marlin's do not bother me. i would never carry a levergun with round chambered and hammer cocked regardless if gun had crossbolt or tang safty.not a safe practice. unless you are going in the brush to finish off a toothy critter still not safe but outways the other risk of being eaten.

Okay, point taken, yeah I have Marlins with crossbolt safety, my problem with the tang safety, push fwd on the safety then pull the hammer back? With the crossbolt leave it off and it stays off. Lot of folks want a lever with irons, some mount tang sights for a little extra. Most mount peeps. Thing is the new gun will lose sales because of the tang safety. Something we as levergunners do not want, an engineered drawback for sales. I have no doubt one of the big things the owners will have is figuring out a way of getting rid of it. Much as the Marlins have. Winchesters rebounding hammer design has been circumvented, new style trigger assemblies made back to the old style. Lawyerproofing a firearm for the sake of extra safties has gone full circle. They got what they wanted, the gun no longer being produced in The Win 94 case. Can't outlaw them work on the other end and lawyer them up.

Coyote is correct. How many safety systems does a firearm need? It is the poor gun handling, not the safeties, or lack thereof which make a firearm dangerous. Guns without hammers NEED manual safeties (I am not really comfortable with the striker fired autos) There are only two times I can think of when a safety would have any validity on a lever gun; unloading and moving through thick brush. These conditions can also be handled by teaching safe firearms handling, don't walk through brush with a round chambered, and keep your finger away from the trigger when you unload. A manual safety can be pushed off by brush as easily as the hammer can be pulled to full cock.

Now to the OP, I think the Mossberg will fail, there are way too many used lever guns out there for sale. I feel that is also what killed off the Win 94, why buy a 94 with an ugly safety and poor craftsmanship when you can pick up a pre-64 for the same money? Mossberg failed to compete in the market with their first lever gun (which had a manual safety) I think there are fewer lever users now, if you discount the Cowboy Action shooters. If Mossberg had brought out a modern model 92, they would have had a chance.
Andy

Coyote is correct. How many safety systems does a firearm need? It is the poor gun handling, not the safeties, or lack thereof which make a firearm dangerous. Guns without hammers NEED manual safeties (I am not really comfortable with the striker fired autos) There are only two times I can think of when a safety would have any validity on a lever gun; unloading and moving through thick brush. These conditions can also be handled by teaching safe firearms handling, don't walk through brush with a round chambered, and keep your finger away from the trigger when you unload. A manual safety can be pushed off by brush as easily as the hammer can be pulled to full cock.
Andy


Andy that sounds like utter contempt and a cavalier attitude you and coyote have for firearms safety. If you aren't using the safety provided it sure as heck makes me wonder what other types of unsafe firearms handling you are doing. The Comics are still going after Dick Cheney for his hunting accident that was caused by a breech of safety protocal.

Can't outlaw them work on the other end and lawyer them up.

Swany what do you expect. guys like you compalin loudly about the croossbolt safety (which is much better than the previuos safety) to quote some one from another website "It's awkward to use" which is BS so guess what, someone comes up with the Tang safety which is even easier to use than the Crossbolt safety. Remember the old proverb "Be careful what you ask for you may get it." Well a lot of guys like you that have used the leveractions without the Crossbolt demanded that the manufacturers do something else. Guess what the manufactuerers gave you the tang safety. This is the type of stuff you demanded and you got it. So live with it and use it.

And as for over engineering what do you expect when the manufactuers get sued everytime some idiot (like some people here not using their safeties) doesn't safetly handle his firearm. like any other businesses they are trying to keep from getting sued out of business.

You miss my point. My point is that you cannot add enough safeties to a firearm to cancel out unsafe behavior. No more, no less. If you don't care to shoot with or near me, thats fine, its a big world.
Andy

I love Marlins more by far than any other brand of levergun. I have never had the same experience with buying other brands of ANY TYPE OF GUN as I did buying my Marlin 1895GS. Never have I seen a gun from the factory so mechanically and cosmetically perfect as my 1895GS. Now when it comes to safeties, I don't see why such a fuss has been raised over a little button that actually makes levergun use more convenient and safe. I don't see how anyone can weigh the millisecond of time used to depress a safety against the added safety, convenience and piece of mind that the mechanism provides. Just my two cents.

I also have an 1895GS and I agree with you 100% about their perfection. I would add perfect for their purpose, ie big bore hunting levergun.
Andy

I have rifles with and without the safety, and I have used the non safety Marlins and Winchesters for almost 40 years and never once have I had an accidental discharge with either. I did have a Remington 700 BDL Varmint rifle in 25-06 years ago that would go off when you pushed the safety to the fire postion. So anything can and will happen sometimes. There is no substitute for common sense, and all the safety's in the world will never change that fact. Keep your guns pointed in a safe direction at all times.

Bucolic buffalo hunts with the supplied trigger lock on, just in case the crossbolt, and half cock safty, and lever closed safties fail.... He also has had adult whitetail walk up, look at his gun and walk away laughing as he is fumbling around for the trigger lock key

I have had both Marlins (1894 cowboy) and a Winchester '94, and I much prefered the Marlin. I can't imgaine the Mossberg would change my mind on that one. --Mykal

Bucolic buffalo hunts with the supplied trigger lock on, just in case the crossbolt, and half cock safty, and lever closed safties fail.... He also has had adult whitetail walk up, look at his gun and walk away laughing as he is fumbling around for the trigger lock key


This and your attempt ealier to change the subject of the safety discussion shows that you have no effective intelligent argument infavor of your position. let me know when you switch on your brain (If you have one) and can come up with an intelligent defence of your position. Right now you are just showing how childish and ignorant you are. Not only that you are showing me that you spout a good game about practicing firearms safety but you really don't. And I must remind you coyote that you are the type of person that gives ammo (no oun intened) to the anti-gunners.

A gun is just a tool . If used in a safe manner no harm will come. I have no problem with safties. But please explain to me how half cock is not a safety device? What is it's purpose if not for safety ?

You miss my point. My point is that you cannot add enough safeties to a firearm to cancel out unsafe behavior. No more, no less. If you don't care to shoot with or near me, thats fine, its a big world.
Andy


Andy,

You miss my point you fools that complain and moan about the croossbolt safeties and then strip them out shows that you mouth off about firearms safety but you actually hold it in utter contempt. Besides where do you know for a fact that the half cock safety was not replaced by the Crossbolt or tang safety? Are you a Marlin Enginneer by chance that can speak officially on the subject?

OK, guys. Calm down and be polite.

Bye
Jack

A gun is just a tool . If used in a safe manner no harm will come. I have no problem with safties. But please explain to me how half cock is not a safety device? What is it's purpose if not for safety ?


I don't have to because 1) the safety under disscusion is the Crossbolt and Tang safety. 2) if the rifle has a crossbolt safety on it are you sure that there is the halfcock option on it? I've got a leveraction with a crossbolt safety and believe me there is no halfcock safety in addition to the crossbolt safety on it. And I bought the rifle brand new from the factory.

Andy that sounds like utter contempt and a cavalier attitude you and coyote have for firearms safety. If you aren't using the safety provided it sure as heck makes me wonder what other types of unsafe firearms handling you are doing. The Comics are still going after Dick Cheney for his hunting accident that was caused by a breech of safety protocal. I definately do not want to be around either of you two at the range or hunting wondering if you are handling your rifle safely. You are literally accidents waiting to happen.

It's guys like you that have utter contempt for firearms safety that give ammunition to the anti gunners to grab our guns.

Dude! You need to take a chill pill and show a little respect for those with differing opinions. Hunt or don't hunt with whomever you like but those with a different opinions have the right to do the same.

Originally posted by Bucolic Buffalo
I don't have to because 1) the safety under disscusion is the Crossbolt and Tang safety. 2) if the rifle has a crossbolt safety on it are you sure that there is the halfcock option on it? I've got a leveraction with a crossbolt safety and believe me there is no halfcock safety in addition to the crossbolt safety on it. And I bought the rifle brand new from the factory.


A gun needs a safety , Winchesters with the crossbolt or tang safety don't have a half cock option. Neither does the new Mossberg . So you do need to use that safety. I read back to Swany's post about wanting to put a tang sight where the safety is. His opinion has merit. It comes back to what is wrong with the half cock safety. Everyone has an perception of what design is better than others. Lawyers dictate newer designs based on lawsuits . If there is a cartridge in the chamber some type of safety device needs to be in play. What type of safety is all up to personal preference.

Marlin has it right in my opinion. A non-obtrusive cross bolt. Use it if you want, don't if you don't.

I don't use it on mine but it doesn't bother me in the least being there.

I would also add that I believe the only function a safety SHOULD be DEPENDED upon is to prevent you from soiling your under pants in the case of an accidental discharge.

No matter what, an AD should not injure anyone because the muzzle is ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction.

The Mossberg levergun has been met with lukewarm reviews at best, and having looked at one I think there's no contest between it and the Marlin, plus the Mossberg, at least where I am at, is more expensive. The action is clunky, the wood to metal fit isn't good, it just feels cheap.
That's my two cents.