I have a beautiful bolt action custom gun made by a friend of mine in .243 with no markings, no serial numbers, nothing. Is there some law that requires me to stamp this gun to identify, etc?

You guys are the experts!

I posted this thread before, a couple guys argued about something un-related and the thread was closed before I got all the answers available.

I think the best answer to that question is call BATF and ask them but I would do it from a pay phone and give a false name just to protect your self Forest Punch:D:D:D

A gunsmith I used to know would always stamp some random string of numbers and letters on every non-numbered gun he handled. It allowed him to create better paper records, and answered the "is it legal" question.

You have to call the ATF. If they give you a positive answer, get it in writing from the Agent/Department you speak to. Long story short, guns made before 1968 didn't have to have a serial number; and an unlicensed individual can build a firearm for their own use.

When you say your friend built the gun, I assume he used a surplus receiver? The receiver is the firearm. Is it possible the serial number is under the scope mount? It gets really questionable if the serial number was ground off (as part of the polishing/reshaping of the receiver). The ATF probably can find the serial number if it was ground off.

It is possible that the receiver came from a firearm which had a serial number somewhere else on the gun.

You could have a gunsmith replace the action with a serial numbered action and destroy the old one.

This would definitely be illegal: If your friend ground off the serial number of a firearm made or imported after 1968. If the ATF somehow got their hands on the rifle and found/recovered a serial number which traces the gun to post 1968 you are in a bunch of trouble.

The advice to use a pay phone has a lot of merit....

Good Luck
Andy

Here are two links to the ATF, this stuff is really hard to read.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm

Was it made for you (or made for sale in general), or was it something he made for himself and had/used himself for a while and then decided to sell for some reason? If the former, and it was made some time in the last roughly 40 years, then it must have a serial number. If not and/or if it was something he made for his own personal use and some amount of time after he made it he decided to sell it for some other reason, then IMO the rule/law is pretty clear that no serial number is required. The gun in question was made by a friend here in Idaho? And so there was no interstate commerce? That opens still other possibilities in terms of a defense, don't you think? Naturally, and as with all internet 'advice,' this is my opinion as an internet user who has read the section(s) of the GCA that are pertinent here.

Still, it wouldn't be hard for ATF to put you in a jam over the matter (at least initially?), but then what would provoke their attention in the first place? They should end up chasing the 'manufacturer' for a thing like this, but perhaps they'd use you as a tool to do so? I suppose you do live in a town where ATF has 'flexed their muscles' a time or two before. There are things you could do, that the law doesn't necessarily require or that there is no federal authority to require, in order to protect yourself from ATF persecution, but whether you do that/them or not is really up to you. I don't believe our State is going to mess with you either way, but I haven't read our firearms laws with this question in mind.

what rocky said makes sense .. just engrave the numers you want on it..serial.numbers should be for identifying parts for repair.. not giving the gorernment a look into our buisiness.jmo

My custom rifle built in about 1960 has no markings on it. Back then it wasn't a requirement.

Was it made for you (or made for sale in general), or was it something he made for himself and had/used himself for a while and then decided to sell for some reason? If the former, and it was made some time in the last roughly 40 years, then it must have a serial number. If not and/or if it was something he made for his own personal use and some amount of time after he made it he decided to sell it for some other reason, then IMO the rule/law is pretty clear that no serial number is required. The gun in question was made by a friend here in Idaho? And so there was no interstate commerce? That opens still other possibilities in terms of a defense, don't you think? Naturally, and as with all internet 'advice,' this is my opinion as an internet user who has read the section(s) of the GCA that are pertinent here.

Still, it wouldn't be hard for ATF to put you in a jam over the matter (at least initially?), but then what would provoke their attention in the first place? They should end up chasing the 'manufacturer' for a thing like this, but perhaps they'd use you as a tool to do so? I suppose you do live in a town where ATF has 'flexed their muscles' a time or two before. There are things you could do, that the law doesn't necessarily require or that there is no federal authority to require, in order to protect yourself from ATF persecution, but whether you do that/them or not is really up to you. I don't believe our State is going to mess with you either way, but I haven't read our firearms laws with this question in mind.

Was made for me, and there are no markings anywhere.
Four years ago.
Made in Idaho

Did he make the action or is it a commercial action? I have several custom rifles built in the 50's and 60's, one is a German Mauser with the numbers ground off during refinishing and it is legal because it was sold before the requirement that they had to have a serial number.

Was made for me, and there are no markings anywhere.
Four years ago.
Made in Idaho


I'm impressed that he made the receiver as well, rather than just buying one? I hope it shoots well for you.

If I were your gunsmith, I know I would appreciate the opportunity to:
Show you where the serial number is, or
Make it more obvious, or
Correct my oversight, or
explain why/how no serial number is required,
as the case may be.

How do you know it's a 243? And 243 what?? Why don't you post a picture of this gun with close ups of the receiver and barrel just ahead of the reciever? I'm just curios as I have never seen a firearm that has been manufactured in the last 60 years that didn't have some kind of markings somewhere on the receiver, proofmarks and the like, but then again I haven't seen everything so show me.

Why did you start it up again in General Discussion???

I'm impressed that he made the receiver as well, rather than just buying one? I hope it shoots well for you.

If I were your gunsmith, I know I would appreciate the opportunity to:
Show you where the serial number is, or
Make it more obvious, or
Correct my oversight, or
explain why/how no serial number is required,
as the case may be.

Thanks for your concern, I have made arrangements to have this rifle inspected and marked.

Your friend has to have a license as a gunsmith (not just an ffl or collector) to make a gun that he then transferred to you. And every gun made after 1968 is required to be serialized in certain specific ways and, if I recall correctly, marked in at least two places, one of which would be obvious from an external view. I'd have recommended checking with a lawyer who understands gun laws first, rather than ATF and get whatever problems need to be resolved without involving agents of The State. If they feel like being nasty and your friend doesn't have the necessary license, they could seize the gun and throw your friend in jail. I'm thinking you don't go to jail because you didn't "knowingly" receive an illegally produced gun, and they need you as a witness.

You need to remember that what they told you in elementary school about the "Policeman is your friend." is not true - the policeman is a professional whose job is to look out for the interests and dignity of The State, and while he has prosecutorial discretion, no one should believe that he is going to sacrifice his professional integrity just to be your friend.