I just got a H&R Thumbhole Ultra in 20ga and am interested in wringing as much accuracy out of it as I can. I have searched and found one thread of help, but it stops a year ago. http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=42544&highlight=slug+reloading. I had hoped to simulate the SST hornady load and work from there, but need to know where to begin.
I have loaded precision rifle for over a decade, but never even thought of a shotgun. Now, with the urge to try something new I want a load accurate enough for long range, but primarily it is for coyote and deer in closer than 100yds. My standards for rifles are .5"@100, but I guess if I can get sub-2" out of loading for this "sniper like" shotgun, I will be happy (for a while anyways;))

That is a tall order even for the H&R. You can spend some large sums finding the right slug.
It is a trial and error process for factory loads. At $17.00 a box of 5 it will temper your
ardor for commercial loads.

Is there an answer ? Well yes but if you thought loading for rifles was an education, slug loading
is a whole new world. My suggestion is that you get some Lyman 20 ga. Sabot slugs (they use a
shotgun wad) and start to experiment. They should work well in that piece.

Here is the site from which I have been buying my 20 ga. slugs. Jim Gardner runs a one man
operation. His product is excellent and his quality outstanding for the price. That is why he has a long
waiting list. Give him a try. Tell'em Fritz sent you.
Good Luck.

http://gardnerscache.com/index.html

I'd sure like to mess with that too gdcpony. Member James Gates is the guy to speak with.Owner of this board is no "slouch" on the matter either. You might want to read some of his "Tech Notes". Lots of good information there.

Board members on this forum are "on the cutting edge" of making firearms shoot,and shoot well. Use search and look around.

Cheezywan

I know I'm asking allot of a shotgun. I have always been extremely precision minded so shotguns were off the list. Last year my inlaws told me I couldn't take my bow on their drives anymore (the day prior I dropped a BB and the doe my father in-law wounded with one), and tossed me some slugs and a 12ga pump with a smooth bore. I would have been lucky to hit a car, much less a good humane shot on a deer. I wanted to tell them my honest opinion of their spray and pray tactics, but they like me and I want to keep it that way. This year I plan to play their game my way.
So the H&R wears a Konus 1-5x32, and a bipod. I always use one of those because it may not help, but it can't hurt. At the very least, it is a good way to put the gun down for a bit. I have two boxes each of several slugs from the SST's to cheap Federal rifled numbers. I figure until I start reloading I will play it like a rimfire and find the one it likes.
I heard of using a muzzle loader bullet in a load, but can't pin it down. I also am checking for loading data as all mine refers to rifle and pistol. I'd hate to blow this thing up as it took 6mths to find one available (something about takeovers and moving production to a new plant- mine is from the old plant).
As I have said, sub 2"or bust. I hope to find a semi flat shooting load as this may become my 'yote gun too. The .223 is just too big and heavy to move fast.

This is a manual that might help your project along, from Ballistic Products:
http://shop2.mailordercentral.com/bpicart/prodinfo.asp?number=00MSLUG

Pete

I also have a 20ga ultra and find it likes the CCS slugs better than any others. You can buy the slugs loaded from the company or just the components and roll your own. Loaded last year was $8.99 per box of 5 plus shipping. Sabots and gas seals were $80 per hundred and the loading data comes with them. I buy primed chedite hulls and use Blue Dot powder. I load the hornady XTPHP 300 gr 45 cal pistol bullets for my hunting loads and the 250 gr bullets for shooting holes in paper as the recoil is less. I roll crimp mine but have tried them with no crimp at all and they shoot just fine. If you take a notion to try these call Emma at 609 261 2576 after 5 PM and she will fill you in on all that you need to know.

This is by no means all inclusive, but I wanted to let you know how my gun did with factory loads. I took four boxes out today and shot 100yds. I cleaned between groups and timed my firing to one per minute with the barrel allowed to cool in between to ambient. The first shot can be considered a "fouler" and maybe the second as well. The gun was rested via a bibod, and my fist in the rear. Scope was a Konus 1.5-5x32. I just wanted to venture the thoughts of a varmint hunter on this slugger.

1- Remington rifled slugs. I tried the cheap slugs hoping for the best. I acknowledged that I would have lead problems, but I am a cleaning nut so it didn't concern me for a few shots. With the gun rested I put my watch up beside me and cranked off a round. Five minutes later I already knew this slug was not going to work. The barrel looked horrible, and the shots were sprayed all over the target. I didn't even bother to measure the spread. Recoil was ok, but for a precision varmint hunter who has broken both shoulder blades and collar bones, it would leave an impression.

2- The Federal rifled variety didn't fare much better. It shot two together, and at least all the shots were in the same quad, but not exactly what I want from a deer/predator gun. The recoil was similar, and I went to a .22 while it cooled just to be sure I wouldn't develop a flinch. Further proof that a rifled slug and barrel aren't the best combo.

3- Hornady SST. I really wanted this one to shoot well. I have loaded their bullets into countless shells, and never been disappointed...until today. I wish I could tell you what they were doing, but the only clue I have is that before it was hit by shot number five, #3 looked key holed. Could they not be stabilizing well in my gun? One big plus for this round was the lack of recoil. Considering the ballistic info, I expected a lot more punch from the gun.

4- Lightfield EXP Hybred sabot slug. I think the pictures say best. I think I have found the slug for this gun until I can start loading. Center to center of the farthest of the group (#1 is considered a fouler as the first shot after a cleaning should be) came in at just over 1"! I can certainly deal with that. It was the heaviest kicker as well, but I can deal with that too.

I plan another test on some other slugs, and will post them up too. I will simulate conditions as best as I can. Lightfields will be shot again to see if they back this up, but the others are now out of the running. Boy, this is gonna get expensive! Any other slugs you guy want to see put through this thing? I have some more to try, but I'm always willing to try more as long as I can afford them.

Once I find if this will be my ultimate load I will want to simulate it in a load, so any input would be appreciated. Also my 9yr old wants a 20ga, but weighs a scant 60#. I'll be trying to sabot some light projectiles for her that are still deer capable. I don't ask much do I?

One interesting thing to me. I found not one sabot. I know they are supposed to separate, but what happens to them:confused:? Maybe a stupid newbie question. I did manage to knock over a 10" cherry that was behind my target though!:D

Interesting Indeed! Another shooter that is moving to shotgun bore ammo!
Now....Let's keep it simple! There are three ways to approach the situation with a rifled barrel on a shotgun:
(1) A factory sabot load.
(2) A cast bullet in a regular field wad.
(3) A full bore hard cast heat treated solid
Marshall has had very good results with the Lyman hourglass slugs loaded as (2). Another option is the Lee Key slug. Also Ballistics Products Inc sell various slugs and has a good printout on all kinds of slug loads for sale.
I have never been impressed with sabot loads. Many in 20 bore are loaded with pistol type bullets. Of course, owning Dixie Slugs, I lean toward full bore designs.
Now...If you plan to reload, there's all kinds of options! If I was going to do that, I would get a mold and play around with various powder recipes.
The 20 bore full bore solid should should drop from the mold about .625" with what alloy you decide to use. Not more that.003" larger that groove diameter though.
If you have a mold...play with pure lead, wheelweights, and even heat treated slugs. The best solids (rifled barrels) should run about 500 grs and can be pushed to 1400'/" without much trouble. The last time I checked...Dan at Mountain molds would let you design a 20 bore slug/bullet.....and set the diameter for what alloy you plan to use.
You will find that you will have as much fun working with 20 bore and solids...as you do with other cast applications in centerfire rifles and handguns. Remamber tha same drill applies...cast hard with a large meplat is best.
Number 2 works best with smoothbores and number 1 and 3 works best with rifled barrels. The attached is the 20 bore bullets that Dan cut for Dixie.
Regards, James

I have never cast a bullet in my life. My loads tend to be fast in the centerfires: ei. a .223Rem 40gr @ 3800, 7x57Ack 140gr@ 3000fps, and the fastest yet a 243win 55gr@4300. This and a lack of time for casting leaves lead in the jacket for me. I'm afraid time is limited to assembling the shells from bought components. I would want a limitted quantity of components for testing, or else I will have tons of money in things that, while good, don't work for my firearm/shooting.
On the full bore how is the recoil, leading, and trajectory? I shoot enough to make repeated poundings a difficult ordeal. I have broken 45 bones and some of them are right in line with the recoil path in the body. I tend to prefer lighter projectiles and faster speeds to give them as much energy as I can. Then I practice until I got the round's drift, and drop dialed in. Also I got allot of leading from the rifled pieces in very few shots.
I am not belittling your product. I like the concept. I can see tons of possibilities to it. A 300-400gr jacketed projectile with a good polymer expansion tip, and BT design fired at 1900fps sounds like the ultimate deer slayer for a rifled barrel. I just have no time or funds to try it.
If the Lightfields back up their performance, I will load as close to it as I can and work it from there. I also have different sabots from Remington, Winchester, and Federal to try still. I hope to shoot them this weekend coming.

The NEF 20 ga Ultra is one nice simple firearm. We have both. the Tracker and Ultra in our test guns for 20 bore. The single most important factor in shotgun bore ammo is bullet design...period!
I am amused at shooters that use sabot rounds loaded with bullets they would not use in centerfires. Simply because its in a sabot does not mean it will perform. Yes, we make, and prefer, hard cast heat treated We do not aave to worry if they will expand, fail to expand, or even fragment.
A sfor leading the barrel...no more so that a proper lubed hard cast handgun load....and certainly leaves no plastic residue that sabot will.
The Lyman Hourglass and Lee Key Slug work pretty good in a smoothbore, but leave something to be desired in rifled bores.
Bottom line is to use what you have confidence in. Consider a mold and loading your own if you are a reloader.
Regards, James

Here are two others I tried out this last weekend.
Winchester Super-X sabot- Well, I guess it works in some guns, but not in mine. I would say the group is on par with the rifled slugs, but is it really?
The next was a Federal Sabot with a Barnes expander - OUCH! I don't think I would trust this group as I dreaded even aiming in after the first 2 shots. It kicked like a mule! The 3" shell probably was a little much for someone like me.