Hey Guys,

Got a question for you 9mm reloaders. I just picked up 1000 Speer Gold Dot 147gr bullets for my Glock 17. I would like to reload them to full 9mm factory pressure and get something over 1000 fps out the barrel. I already have the loads from the Speer manual #14 (which is bullet specific but not inclusive of all powders) and have done some with with the 147gr Golden Saber with AA7 and Blue Dot.

Do any of you have specific reloading experience with this bullet in your 9mm's? I am not looking for crazy pressure loads.... just all I can reasonably get in a safe full pressure load. Any insights greatly appreciated.

1000 fps will reguire atleat a +p load. I do not have access to my notes (I am in AK and they are in AL):eek:, but I do recall the 1000 fps with the 147 gr is a higher than normal pressure load.;)
The factory 147's are about 950 fps. Atleast the ones we were issed. It is a worthless load for selfdefence. Fine to practice with though.

Thanks Jim. Actually, the Speer #14 shows a 1000 fps load at standard pressure. But you are totally correct.... based on bullets. I spent a couple months wrestling with the Precision Delta 147gr fmj tc bullet. When all was done the best I could get with it was a bit over 900 fps. While it is likely a very accurate bullet, it is VERY invasive in the case and has the maximum possible area touching the barrel. Both factors make for either very high pressures or very low velocities. The 147gr Golden Saber hp is about as invasive as the Precision Delta bullet but has far less surface area bearing against the barrel. The down side is the jacket materal is brass and much harder to push down the barrel. I did finally end up with a 1000 fps load with this. I won't swear it's not a +P load but I don't think so.

Now comes the Speer Gold Dot. It has less surface bearing area than the PD but more than the Golden Saber. Being that the jacket is pure copper, friction/drag in the barrel is way down over either the PD or the Golden Saber. Hence my question. With 147gr bullets in the little high pressure 9mm case, every bullet is a law unto itself.

So has anybody been down this road before me with the Gold Dot? Any help appreciated. Thanks

Check out the facyory VV 3N38 load for the 147. Impressive. Im going to try it.

You might also checkout the alliantpowder website for loads with
PowerPistol.

1000 fps will reguire atleat a +p load. I do not have access to my notes (I am in AK and they are in AL):eek:, but I do recall the 1000 fps with the 147 gr is a higher than normal pressure load.;)
The factory 147's are about 950 fps. Atleast the ones we were issed. It is a worthless load for selfdefence. Fine to practice with though.


Dr. Martin Fackler, President Of The Intermational Wound Ballistics Assc. certainly dissagrees with that statement. If fact he recomends the 147 grain hollow point in the 9nn and yes in the +P loading. A bullet that penetrates deep enough to always reach the vitails will be effective. Nothing lives with a perferated heart..

Well we adopted this load, as did many other departments, and it failed miserably litterly in all of our shootings.
Look at the reality of it.
147 gr, .355, 950fps. This is nothing more than 38 SP +p. It CAN'T be more than the ballistics show. Sorry, it don't live up to what the FBI thought it would.;)
The average depth of the human chest, according to him, is 9.7 ins. I guess he has not seen the people on the street today!

According to the San Diego PD the 147 grain hollow point +P increased their stopping ability of the 9mm vs the lightweight bullets. This seems to be in direct contradiction to your assessment.
Can you list your wound ballistics qualification as to how they trump a man that's profession is "Wound Ballistics"
You give no information as to shot location, whether the bad guys were determined attackers or not. You give no wound channel information at all, you just state that it doesn't work.

Yes I can:
127 gr, .355, 1285 FPS.:cool:

Well guys... Actually this post is about the 147gr Speer Gold Dot and reloading it to 1000 fps out of a Glock 17. It is not about the preference of the 124 or 147 weight for any specific use. If anyone wants to get into this, please start your own thread.

So... has anyone any experience with this bullet? Care to share your experiences?

Thank you.

We have talked this death. BUT the 127 gr 1285 fps is as good or slightly better than the 357 Mag, 125 gr at 1250 fps (fired from the 2 1/2 inch bbl) and this load has been found to be one of the best ,if not the best, load in a handgun to stop the fight!:cool:
I will conced this is a +p+ load, but it works and makes my 15 shot 9 a 15 shot 357!;)

The original poster is not interested in this BS about the light weight 9mm bullets, he is only interested in the Gold Dot 147 grain bullet loaded to 1000 FPS.

:):):):):):):);):p:p

Bill, I do not have any experience loading the 147 grain Gold Dot in the 9mm, but since no one has responded I will give you some recent Hogdon Data. Maybe this will be of some help.

From Hogdons web site;


<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=mini align=middle>147 GR. HDY XTP </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>IMR </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>800-X </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>.355" </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>1.130" </TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle>5.3 </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>1025 </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>32,900 CUP </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle><TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=altrow><TD class=mini align=middle>147 GR. HDY XTP </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>Hodgdon </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>Longshot </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>.355" </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>1.100" </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>3.8 </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>851 </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>25,700 PSI </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>4.7 </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>1004 </TD><TD class=mini align=middle>33,800 PSI </TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD><TD class=mini align=middle></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The 3N38 load gives 1200 fps with a Hornady 147 gr at standard pressure from a 4 inch barrel.

NO WAY! This would have to a +p+ load. You can't change the laws of physics!;)

The 3N38 load gives 1200 fps with a Hornady 147 gr at standard pressure from a 4 inch barrel.


Thank you Ironhead, JWP475 and others. I had my sights on Longshot as a possibility but had not considered 3N38. The 1200 fps claim with a 147gr bullet is wild. But... I went onto their site and it's right there. 1200 fps. They do not even list the powder for lighter bullets but only for that 147gr Hornady. They seat the bullet out fairly long for a 1.140 loa. They must have found a real sweet spot that flattens out the pressure curve while pushing a longer pressure wave on the bullet. Sure is worth a try. My experience with 147gr bullets in 9mm is that each is a law unto itself. The Gold Dots may or may not give the great speed claimed of the Hornady. Heck... I may just have to buy some Hornady's to find out. Frankly I am doubtful of getting 1,200 fps at normal pressures. I am also doubtful that our friends at Viht. would lie to us either. Their liability is too great for that.

Any of you 9mm reloaders care to join me in working on this? We have published load data and a heck of a possible payoff. I plan to try the 3N38 first and then the Longshot. Longshot only promises me 1000 fps and that's still what I want. The 3N38 is too interesting not to try. Hope my local gun store has these powders. Will find out on Wed.

Bill,

Not sure if this is helpful or not, but I have loaded Marshall's 160gr. FNBB to over 900fps without any trouble in a couple of 9mms.

If you already have the 147s, good luck with that, but if you want to go heavier it can be done :) I just wasn't sure what your motivation was for the 147 gr. load, not that you have to justify it.

Bill,

Not sure if this is helpful or not, but I have loaded Marshall's 160gr. FNBB to over 900fps without any trouble in a couple of 9mms.

If you already have the 147s, good luck with that, but if you want to go heavier it can be done :) I just wasn't sure what your motivation was for the 147 gr. load, not that you have to justify it.

Hey Mike,

Yeah, It's kinda disgusting... that I am shooting the stock Glock barrel that calls for jacketed bullets. Marshall's amazing 160gr bullet is basically the same length as the jacketed 147gr bullets out there. With the same length and far less drag in the barrel, it should make the absolute most out of a 9mm heavy bullet load. I shoot it in my 357 GP and SP with good results (easy to drive fast in short barrels) but they are sized too big for a 9mm.

For now though, I am focused on the 147gr jacketed bullets. Want to see what I can make of those thousand 147gr Gold Dot's I bought. This has been a challenging project as I go from bullet to bullet and powder to powder. Being a 44 mag kind of guy, the little 9mm has humbled me over and over. Teaches me to think better.

I think some here are disreguarding an important fact, "You can't get velocity with out pressure".:confused:
Higher velocity=Higher pressure:)

I think some here are disreguarding an important fact, "You can't get velocity with out pressure".:confused:
Higher velocity=Higher pressure:)

That's true if you stick with the same powder. There are powders that can achieve higher velocities with the same pressure. The trick is to find them. :)

By way of example: IMR 4198 speeds in a .45-70 +P rifle cart. can be acheived with Reloader 7 at lower pressure.

Yes and no, there is a limit. The burning rate of the power will determine the pressure curve. If you can bring up the pressure at a rapid to moderate rate and maintain it at max limits as long as possible you will get max velocity.
But a 4 inch bbl, 147 gr, very limited case capacity, 1200 fps within non +p+ limits???????;)

It sounded wrong to me too but I did some research and it seems to be true. Havent been able to find 3N38 yet but will report on it when I can.

1200 fps with a 147gr? I got to get some 3N38. I will have to order it tho. No one around here carries the VV brand.

Do you have a chronagraph and a 9mm with a 4 inch bbl? If so let me know. I guess I will have to take the 'show me' attitude on this one!;)

I am a little bit closer. Just stopped and picked up a pound of Longshot to try with the 147gr Gold Dots. My dealer did not have any 3N38 but ordered some for me. Can't wait to try this out.

Well guys... I have learned a few more things and made some progress. Again I have discovered AGAIN that each 147gr 9mm bullet is a law unto itself. Mixing bullets is dangerous at best.

For example, with AA7 the 147gr Accurate Arms listed max load is 7.2gr. With the Precision Delta 147gr TC bullet I ended up with a 6.0gr load max and just over 900 fps. With the 147gr Remington GS bullet I ended up with 6.8gr max and 1000 fps. With the new 147gr Gold Dot bullet, 6.8gr is way over max. All bullets are seated to 1.125" except the PD which is seated to 1.132". No doubt I am a conservative handloader but casually switching bullets and lengths is over the line of stupid. Velocities are out of my Glock 17. I also shoot the same loads out of my SP-101 as it likes to stick brass right around +P pressures. Gives me an extra indicator for pressure.

Though the 3N38 is not in, I got to work with the Longshot some. Published max is 1000 fps with 4.7gr of Longshot. They use a deep seated (1.100) Hornady XTP bullet. Though I started at 4.3gr of Longshot, this morning I ended up at 4.9gr of Longshot. This is with the Speer 147gr Gold Dot bullet seated to 1.128". Velocity in the 17 is 1025 fps with truly gentle pressures. So far this is the most promising heavy bullet load I have put together. I was looking for a powder with a burn rate more like Blue Dot that took up less space in the case. So far, Longshot seems to be that powder. I'll keep working on this. Don't need or want to go higher with the Longshot and the GD bullet. Unless further testing reveals mistakes, it looks real good and meets my requirements.

I can't suggest enough to be real careful with these 147gr bullets in 9mm. There are as many exceptions as there rules as you go from bullet to bullet. I don't know what differences there are between other guns too. Don't trust my numbers in your guns.

very interesting stuff here re the 147. Does anyone load lead 147s. I'm looking for a low recoil load for IDPA.
Thanks,
Bob

Hello Bill,
I was sort of in the same situation as you not long ago, I purchased 7 boxes of 9mm 147 gr gold dots for next to nothing. I ended up using 5.3 grs of power pistol under the 147 gold dots. The load is listed at 1005 fps with 5.2 grs. under a 147 gr xtp. I have put over 400 rounds through my 5904 with no cycling problems or signs of excessive case pressures.
Good luck,
rjw158

Hello Bill,
I was sort of in the same situation as you not long ago, I purchased 7 boxes of 9mm 147 gr gold dots for next to nothing. I ended up using 5.3 grs of power pistol under the 147 gold dots. The load is listed at 1005 fps with 5.2 grs. under a 147 gr xtp. I have put over 400 rounds through my 5904 with no cycling problems or signs of excessive case pressures.
Good luck,
rjw158


Thanks for your insights. I'll keep your data on hand. The only reason I have not tried Power Pistol is that none of my local dealers sell it. That's why I finally tried Longshot and it has worked well so far. Never did find any 3N38. Even tried the Cabela's in Hamburg but they had none ( I should have looked for Power Pistol but forgot).

Between you and me we have 2 1000+ fps load for the heavy 9mm Speer bullet.

I just got a good closeout deal on some Hornaday 124gr fmj fn bullets. Basically they are 124gr in weight but are the length of many 115gr bullets. So I get more room in the case. There is very little reloading data specific to that bullet but it looks like it could be very fast for it's weight. Of course there is no expansion with this bullet so it's probably more of a field type load. Should give a pretty good swat for a little bullet.

Thanks again!

I think some here are disreguarding an important fact, "You can't get velocity with out pressure".:confused:
Higher velocity=Higher pressure:)


Not necessarily you can be over pressure and have lower velocity...

This is not what we were discussing here, for max velocity, you will have max pressure (the pressure curve very). Fast powder, heavy bullets be careful. IE. 148 gr WC, 3 gr Bullseye.;)