My son turns 12 in time for next years hunting season. Here in NY that means he will be old enough to hunt. :cool: I want to give him a head start by getting him his first "real" gun now so he has a year to get used to it. He takes after me at that age in that he is a little guy for his age, skinny, maybe 60lbs and short guy in his class. I measured the distance from the inside of his elbow to his 1st finger knuckle and it is just over 13". His airgun has a LOP of 13" but it is too long for him. He struggles to get his cheek in a good location to line up the sights properly. I have a couple options for his first gun.

I want his 1st to be a .22lr or small gauge shotgun, no preference towards either yet. I have an option to purchase a used Mossberg .410 pump shotgun at a bargain price. I know if I get it I will have to cut down the stock and may have to have the barrel cut back to reduce weight and balance it properly. I am wondering about how much it may cost to have a choke tube installed on that shortened barrel and if it would be good value to do so.

I also know that several manufacturers make used shotguns and rimfires. Too many mfg's to rattle off my head.

Anyone want to throw out their opinions ;) as to what direction they would go for a first firearm for a little guy?

Any experience out there with Savage, Remington, Rossi, etc youth guns?

MikeW

.22 definitely, single shot preferably, and one of the "chipmunk" models to fit him. He'll eventually outgrow it, but it'll be there for HIS children.

Rifles demand better technique (read:accuracy) to hit your target than a shotgun and promote good habits. Even the smallest shotgun kicks more than a .22 and may be too much for a slightly built boy.

Single shots are somewhat safer in that loading/reloading requires a specific procedure. A clip fed bolt action is certainly an option, but I'd stay away from a semi-auto for a first gun.

A bit of shopping should find you a used youth model for a very reasonable price, and short of using it for a crowbar, it's pretty hard to hurt a .22

Savage makes some great youth guns with a short pull , they even have some that come with a scope and boresighted for a reasonable price. A 22 magnum or a 20 gauge would be great first hunting guns that will easily take a deer but not punish the young guy . Where you at Weave , I used to live in Hornell and have family in Corning , Bath , Dansville and Utica.

I am definitely staying away from the autoloaders.

pfoxy, you make agood point about a .22 maybe helping him with good habits. Hadn't considered that.

I figured that 20 gauge would be maximimum. 28 or 410 better.

My biggest concerns are length of pull and total length/wgt of the gun. He has shot my Marlin M60. He did OK but the problem was, besides LOP, ithat it is too long overall. He has trouble holding it up to aim because all that length hanging out there is like a giant lever pulling down on him.

MikeW

BillyJoeJimBob,
Grew up in Buffalo suburbs, live in Genesee County now. I spend a lot of time in the Corning/Bath area. We visit Keuka Lake several times a year.

MikeW

Its great hunting and fishing in western NY . Gotta love those rolling green hills . I am in Oklahoma now but should be back for a visit soon . Good luck on the gun hunt , theres nothing better than the outdoors with the kids .

I'll bet you can find a CZ 452 "youth model" if you look around. I saw a new one not long ago for $179. It is a fine rifle.

Hi weave,

Your best bet is a 22. Then teach him position shooting and he will use the knowledge the rest of his hunting life. The 410 is a very poor choice for a first gun. The 410 requires precision due to it small payload. It might work for squirrels or rabbits but a single shot would be a better choice. Let him learn safety and gun care with an inexpensive 22. There is plenty of time to start with a shotgun. A 20ga would be the best choice when he is bigger and more responsible.

Frank

I agree with "drducati" that the CZ Scout would make a fine first rifle for a young shooter. I took the liberty to borrow some info from the CZ-USA website about the rifle.
Cal; .22LR
LOP;12"
Bbl; 16.2"
OAL; 32.8"
Wt; 5#

Rifle comes with adjustable sights and a single shot adapter. Five and ten round magazines are available.

I own five of the full sized CZ 452's in.22LR and can attest to their accuracy and solid build.

Doesn't Rossi have a 3-barrel combo, .22 LR, 20GA shotgun, and I forget the third?

Seems to be aimed to the youth market.

Another vote for the 22 rimfire rifle as a first gun for a younster.
I also suggest that you consider a single shot,as first preference,ans semi auto as last.
A singleshot will force him to appreciate the value of the accuracy of each shot.
Frank

One idea would be a combo gun from NEF/H&R or Rossi. In OH only shotguns for deer so my 9yr old will hopefully be getting a .22lr, .223, 20ga (or 410 if I can find it) combo. I found it once at Gander Mt. for $250, but they sold it and now I'm hunting again. I think it might be worth considering for you as it would give your son a varmint gun, squirrel gun, and bird/ deer gun all at once.

She weighs about the same as your son (60#) and my guns are all varmint weight so she can't shoot them well. She currently uses an old Ithica 49 for squirrel. For deer she plans on using her bow.

:cool:When I was twelve my dad got me my first gun. A 22 pump.:)
I would recommend a 22 repeater, but not a semi-auto. A bolt gun is good. I have used single shots, but this takes alot of the 'fun' out of shooting. The 'follow-up' shots are fun. As you can see I am particial to the pump. There are several out there, but Taurus has one which I would recommend.:)

My dad got me a 22LR bolt action single shot as my first "gun". While the single shot concept is fine, it got to be a PITA when I became proficient with the rifle. I never felt I had enough "firepower". Suggest you start your son off with a 22LR bolt action magazine fed and put the magazine in the gunsafe until he becomes a safety conscious, responsible shooter. If that rifle will take a single shot magazine, all the better. Years later, he will always treasure that gun.

I agree that the .22 bolt action is an excellent choice for a new shooter. However, I shudder to think of someone using a .22 to hunt game birds. It is not legal for hunting migratory birds such as doves anywhere in the USA and not legal for pheasants, sage grouse, chukar partridge, quail, or sharp-tails in Colorado. Although I now hunt Pennsylvania squirrels exclusively with a .22, I pass up about 3/4 of the opportunities because of the lack of a safe background (squirrel in tree without large branch or trunk behind it to stop bullet). To paraphrase an old ditty originally penned for archers: "I shot a bullet into the air - it landed I know not where".

The .410 is definitely "an experts gun" for skeet competition where 2 1/2" shells with 1/2 oz of shot are used, but the 3" shells have 11/16 oz of shot - only 1/16 oz less than the 28 ga. or light 20 ga. loads. I started small game hunting in Pennsylvania with a hammerless Savage Model 220A .410 with 3" shells containing no. 6 shot and used it for about 3 years. It accounted for numerous pheasants, rabbits, and squirrels. I then moved up to a pump 16 ga.r and started killing the birds on my 3rd shot. Because of the lighter shot charge, a .410 should be choked tighter than a larger ga. used for the same purpose. Avoid the single shot .410s that have an exposed hammer that must be cocked before firing as cocking is difficult for a small individual and may be a safety hazard in the excitement of a flushed bird as well as result in many lost opportunities. The slightly smaller pattern of the .410 is not a major drawback as long as the youngster is not put in a position where he/she is "competing" for shots.

If you're not attached to getting him a new rifle, what about the Winchester 67? It's got quite a heritage as a boy's first rifle.

If you do want a new rifle, I keep hearing good things about that CZ 452 Scout. There's a rental one at the range which I've shot a bit. I found it easy to handle and shoot. The instructor thinks it's an excellent rifle for the money. I'd consider it seriously if I wanted a new rifle.

My son turns 12 in time for next years hunting season. Here in NY that means he will be old enough to hunt. :cool:

If he is as bloodthirsty as I was when I was twelve; I would recommend a 20 gauge shotgun. We were started out with .22s and shotguns pretty much simultaneously. I liked the 22 more for shooting but the shotgun would sure roll those squirrels out of a tree.

Thanks all for the advice. I would have responded yesterday but the bandwidth issue on the forum kept me off.

I did end up picking up that .410. The deal was too good to pass up. It is a beauty. Mossberg M500. Looks like it has never been shot. Not a scratch anywhere to be found. Full choke, 24" barrel, full length vented rib. I will need to reduce the length of pull but my son seems to be able to point it OK. His birthday was Saturday. I gave it to him yesterday. He is excited. So am I. Momma is bummed. Her little boy is becoming Daddy's pal. I wonder if he'll let me borrow it once in a while? ;)

But I am not done yet.
You all have convinced me that a 22 would be appropriate. So I guess he is learning quickly that you cannot have enough guns !! :D I will spend the next couple of months looking for a .22 to put under the Christmas tree. I am not partial to new as I have purchased my share of used guns over the years.

MikeG, I saw one of the Rossi's you mentioned. Comes in .22lr, 20ga, and .243. It looked good and was inexpensive but I am a little concerned about my son being able to keep that hammer under control during cocking and de-cocking. Also, anyone have first hand experience with one? How's the quality?

How about the Taurus pumps? Any experiences out there with that one?

My thoughts are Marlin or Savage bolt, Marlin lever, or Taurus pump. We deer hunt in a rifles-allowed area of NY and I use a Marlin 35Rem. I was thinking that a lever .22 would get him ready to step up to a 30-30 when the time comes.

Thoughts? Opinions? I know we've got lots of those here.

MikeW

I think any persons (young or old) first gun, whether long or short should be a .22. For a young person, first starting to learn to hunt, you can't beat a single shot .22 rifle. Letting them rabbit or squirrel hunt with a single shot will make a very good shooter out of them. There will also be less wounded animals get away. I still hunt with a single-shot 30-06 for deer or long range varmints. Also have a Thompson Center Contender .44Mag if I want to hunt with a handgun.

weave: congratulations to your son in advance on his first rifle. IMHO, I suggest a 22LR Bolt action. I also like the single-shot concept for a boy's first rifle. Have a look at this Savage model.

http://www.savagearms.com/markigy.htm

I started with a Ruger 10/22 and a Mossberg 500 20 Gauge.

I like the .22, but I'd even recommend a precision air rifle for a first rifle. There is no noise or recoil for a young shooter to establish with shooting. My mom never liked guns and never wanted me to shoot or hunt, and my dad probably took us hunting 2 or 3 times and to the range just as many times. I bought all my own guns and taught myself everything I wanted to know about shooting and reloading. Now I shoot competitively, so its more about the desire of someone to excel at a skill, but being supportive sure helps a lot.

I'd start your son with a single shot or repeater at the most. My sons got semi-autos (10-22 rugers) starting out and they all developed some bad shooting habits despite my best intentions. Guess it comes too easy to take another shot instead of making the first one count.

Airguns, airguns. No recoil. No noise. Near one-holer precision can be had for a modest investment. Practice can be done with a backstop in the basement. If you stick with pneumatic ones, there is no possibility of rapid fire for developing bad habits. The near total lack of noise and recoil let you keep the sights aligned through the shot to develop follow-through and the ability to call the shot placement on paper. Even the best match ammo is cheap compared to firearm ammunition.

I started out with a 22 single shot and a H&R 410 single barrel. I can't count the squirrels I killed with that 410. I still hunt with it today. I am in the process of refinishing and rebluing the old 22 single shot to give to my grandson when he is of age. I hope your son enjoys the 410 as much as I did mine. But do get him a 22. His practice with that will help with his 410.

I would also take a look at the Keystone Arms Cricket it is a very short youth gun that you can usually get a new one for around $100 they come in a variety of colors as well as synthetic and wood. They are a single shot .22 they have a base you can but so you could put a scope on for him. good luck with your search.

Here is there website to look at if you are interested. http://www.crickett.com/CrickettRifle/crickettrifle.html

Definitely start with a .22. I had no problems loading and unloading my Ruger 10/22 when I was 10, neither did my any of my friends. I would suggest a Ruger 10/22, I still hunt with it and I can pop apples at 100yds. No telling how many varmints I shot with that rifle. A .410 will be more gun than a .22 and may cause problems early on with flinching.

If you're not attached to getting him a new rifle, what about the Winchester 67? It's got quite a heritage as a boy's first rifle.

I can't argue with that! Grandpa had a model 67 I started shooting at 6. A truck load of lead must have passed through that barrel since it was new. That old rifle has been handed down to me and it will continue down the line when my grandson gets a little older.

I agree with the choice of a .22. My first was a "hand me down" single shot in pretty bad condition. I put a lot of ammo thru it trying to see where it would hit. I used to borrow a neighbor's lever action to hunt with(he only let me have one bullet at a time). I finally saved up to get my own Marlin because my Dad said it would be the same size as a 30-30 and I should get used to it. I think it was good advice. Kids tend to have growth spurts and you don't want him to outgrow something in a couple of years, either. I think after the 22 a 20 gauge is an excellent choice. Good for birds and you can get 00 buckshot or slugs for it, as well.

go for an m1 carbine =D

not that heavy and not a huge kick

it was my first rifle but im a tall thick kid

The Chipmunk .22 Cal. rifle would be my choice. it is a fine rifle and his childrens children will give it to their children. It is built to last. I recently shot my friends kids Chipmunk and it shot 1 inch at 50 yards all day long. It is also safer and easier to use than most other weapons.
For safety reasons, I would stay away from any lever action weapon.
Good luck to both of you,

Kudu40

I have Marlins myself and the 39 levers are a sweet 22 but on the pricey side , you do good to find one used around 500 or so . Savage makes a good lever 22 for about half the cost . I bet that young guy is going to have a grin from ear to ear with that 410 .

He is a happy guy with the 410. He doesn't know that a 22 is on his Christmas list.

Lots of opinions on which 22, huh?

Thanks all for the links and info. I've got lots of shopping and research to do !!

MikeW

rossi makes a 22lr, 410 or 20ga, and 50cal smoke pole combo. these are all single shot and it exposes them the different hunting rifles out there. rossi has combo that include a center fire in 243 and 270cal.
wolfpack795

I kinda like a .22 bolt for a youngster. Teaches them control.

Started out my grandson at age 4 on a .22 Chipmunk. He graduated to the .22 Hornet by 7 and now at 10 has his own customnized Swede 6.5mm (came to me in a sack of parts, guys - don't get excited! :eek:) Took a fine whitetail doe at 160 yds with one shot last winter. Probably be wanting a .50 Barrett when he's 12! :p

Board member TPV now has the Chipmunk teaching his grandson.