A distant relative that I had not heard from in years brought me something wrapped in an old oily rag. "Can you tell me what this is?" he said as he handed it to me.:confused:

I was almost certain when I took hold of it but after unwrapping it I instantly recognized a M1911 magazine, with rounds in it.:cool: But the rounds looked odd, the bullet was not brass but bright, like steel. When I looked at the heads, well, I got interested.;)

The magazine contained 7 identical rounds of .45 ACP. The rounds were made (headstamped) by the Frankford Arsenal (US) in 1914!:eek: The bullets are indeed copper, FMJ, but plated with something like steel or aluminum. The primers are sealed, just as military ammo should be. This must be some of the first .45ACP ever made.:D

According to my cousin, the magazine came from a box that contains a pistol and holster that belonged to his great, great uncle. I've done a little research and found that the uncle was a Major of Artillery during WWI and returned from France severely wounded by gas.:cool:

The search goes on!

Neat find. Suspect the bullets are plated with tin. Post a pic if you can.

IIRC, tin plating was used to reduce the fouling caused by cupro-nickel bullet jackets. The bullets are a minor collector's item at this point, and you might want to auction them? I don't know what you'd get? Not a lot more than the postage, I expect, but perhaps the novelty of them being in the original magazine would help? It the gun and holster they went with are available, they should be kept together as a set and a gun auction site would be appropriate.

I have a half box of 1918 RA military 45ACP ball,and they have aluminum colored bullets.I'm pretty sure that they are tin plated Many military rounds,of different calibers,were tin plated at the turn of the century.45/70 military bullets were tin plated,as welll as 30 Krag bullets.I have samples of each.
Frank

Tin plated, or cupro-nickel? I have sample of WW I era .303 British ammunition, and it is a somewhat shiny 'silver' colour. They are cupro-nickel, as far as I can determine.

I seem to recall Hatcher discussing the tin plating as a fouling reduction measure in the context of match ammunition issued at Camp Perry between the World Wars which was made that way. It went away when the 5% Zinc gilding metal jackets were developed. A point of trivia here is that what we call copper jackets made with that alloy are technically bronze jackets. All copper/zinc alloys are properly referred to a bronzes, AFAIK.

I referenced Hatchers Notebook,and read thatthe WW1 wartime 30'06 bullet was cupro-nickle,and looked like tin plated.I referenced the Krag,also. Some Krag bullets were also cupro-nickle.
I also researched the 45/70 bullet.In 1899,a gulding metal (jacketed)bullet was adopted,and tinned.This was the 500 grain rifle bullet,and was the standard from then on.Carbine bullets were still made of lead.In 1888,an experimental batch of 450 grain gulding metal bullets was made for the Carbine.
I have Hatcher's book Brady's book of the Krag and Frasca's book of the Trapdoor.
Frank

I thought copper-tin was bronze and copper-zinc was brass?

Mike I tried to take pics but my camera just didn't do a descent job, just to blurry to see what is there! I only have the rounds, not the whole rig.

If it's digital, see if it has a 'macro mode' and that will help with close ups. On my camera the icon is a small flower, and I've seen this used on other models as well.

I got the feature but doesn't come out clear enough to read headstamp. Then I can't transfer them to here.

Did research and found that Frankford was involved in development of 45ACP (1904)but 1st production run was Aug 1911. These, made in January of 1914, would certainly have to be considered 'early run' considering the long run of production. The cartridge out lived the arsenal!
The bullets are copper-nickle acording to research.

It would be most interesting to fire that ammo- assuming it isn't worth anything as a collectors item, or family heirloom.
I wonder how a magazine spring compressed since 1914 would behave....

I think I remember something about tinned bullets sticking to the case and raising pressures. I wouldnt fire them.

A distant relative that I had not heard from in years brought me something wrapped in an old oily rag. "Can you tell me what this is?" he said as he handed it to me.:confused:

I was almost certain when I took hold of it but after unwrapping it I instantly recognized a M1911 magazine, with rounds in it.:cool: But the rounds looked odd, the bullet was not brass but bright, like steel. When I looked at the heads, well, I got interested.;)

The magazine contained 7 identical rounds of .45 ACP. The rounds were made (headstamped) by the Frankford Arsenal (US) in 1914!:eek: The bullets are indeed copper, FMJ, but plated with something like steel or aluminum. The primers are sealed, just as military ammo should be. This must be some of the first .45ACP ever made.:D

According to my cousin, the magazine came from a box that contains a pistol and holster that belonged to his great, great uncle. I've done a little research and found that the uncle was a Major of Artillery during WWI and returned from France severely wounded by gas.:cool:

The search goes on!

Great find! I checked my stash, and I have two REM-UMC rounds from 1918. They've been rolling around for 90 years, and the presumable Tin or Nickel coating has significantly worn off revealing a Copper jacket.
I also have several USCC (1918) and a single "W" marked round (1917) and they all have that Tin or Nickel plated projectile.
As an aside, I almost screamed with delight when I bought a box of 50 or so very old, odd .45 ACP rounds from a collector: One round is stamped "FA" with dates of "4 06"... Not bad at all! I managed to capture a round meant for the Colt 1905, or possibly for the tests of 1907...

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

Jack, I wondered the same about the mag. In the Navy we were not allowed to load more than 5 in a mag unless it was to be unloaded that day. I filled the mag in question with 7 and the last 2 were really loose! Plan to take it to the range and see how they feed thru a weapon. My bet, it won't feed the last 2. I have a good many mil-spec mags so I could change the spring.

O'Connersun,

http://www.odcmp.org/1101/can.pdf

F. Guffey