Anyone have experience with shooting a black bear with Nosler Ballistic Tips? I will be deer hunting in an area where there is a small chance of seeing bear. I am shooting a 280 Remington with 140gr. Ballistic tips. I have used them on deer with no problems, but never on a bear.

280 Remington,

If I haven't said so, welcome to the forum.

I moved your thread over to a hunting forum. You'll more likely get an experienced response here.

The song claims Davy Crockett "kilt him a bar" when he was only three, an undoubted exaggeration, but certainly many were killed with patched round ball back in the day, and with .30-30 around the turn of the last century. Black bears are not considered hard to kill. Bow hunters, who probably would not be sanguine about using their weapons on grizzly or polar bears, hunt black bear all the time.

That said, the Nosler BT expands pretty rapidly. I would want better bone breaking probability for something that bites back. If you like how Nosler bullets shoot in your gun (some guns love them and some don't), I would look at their Accubond bullet, at least, or better still, the Partition. Should I have to take a shot at a charging bruin, I would be wanting something that held together pretty well. I would also want it about as heavy as possible. Nosler makes a 175 grain partition, and that might be worth looking at if your gun's barrel twist rate is adequate for it?

I have some experience in both black bear & grizzly bear hunting. I would advice you to look around (contact Nosler by phone) and choose another type of bullet for your .280 caliber rifle. Ballistic Tip bullets are to SOFT in my humble opinion for going after bear. I am speaking of 250 lb and above bear.

A much better choice for penetration and staying together would be the Nosler Partition bullet, Swift A Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw or Barnes Triple Shock bullet. I also like useing a bit more caliber, such as a 338 Win mag, .338/06 or for over bait, the 444 Marlin and 325 grain hard cast bullets. Bears have thicker hides and larger bones than any of the mule deer or whitetail deer, that the ballistic tip bullet was intended for when hunting said animals.

You'll be OK with the .280 Rem for black bear with the 140 gr bullet, but as said, I'd opt for the Nosler Partition. Great for both deer and bear.

This doesn't have much bearing on your question, but larger caliber (bigger than .308) Ballistic Tip bullets are more heavily constructed than the small caliber stuff. Those 140gr 7mm BT's are really closer to a varmint bullet than what you need.

I've killed a bunch of black bear here in Idaho and even seen them shot out of trees with 22 rimfires. Lots of mine were killed with a 44 mag or 41 mag handgun shooting standard for the caliber weight hardcast bullets in the 1200 to 1400 fps range. They really don't seem hard to kill. I also shoot a 280 Remington with 139 grain Hornedy SST bullets and would not hesitate to take a black bear with one of those. Now when I was in Alaska I used a bigger gun, but they had bigger bears up there. Just keep in mind to make a good shot. You can wound an animal with a 458 Win mag with a poor shot.

Thanks for the input. I am not specifically hunting bear, but may get a shot at one while deer hunting. I will probably try the Accubonds. They should hold together a little better than the BT's but still expand plenty for whitetails.

I used to deer and bear hunt up in the Poconos of PA . Never killed a bear but did in a few deer !

There was a young fellow about 12 I think that popped a 660 pound dressed weight bear up there one year with one shot fron a 243 WIN and he was shooting the Nosler 95 grain Ballistic Tip !

I have used the Nosler 140 BT in the 280 REM before and I found it to be an excellent deer bullet and here in Virginia the majority of the bear we may see I would not be afraid to shoot a bear with the bullet .

I also have a 7mm SAUM that I load with the Hornady 139 SST and I wouldn't be adverse to using that either !

Everything above 6mm in caliber in the Ballistic Tip is constructed more heavily for use on deer.

Personally, I really like the .280 and its completely capable of killing bear, but I would go with the Nosler Partition.

I'd go with a partition too

Partition, or bonded. I'm a little distrustful of the BTs after putting a few of them in small deer and hogs. None of them would penetrate through and through, and it always looked like a bomb went off in the middle.

I know Nosler promotes them for deer hunting but I get a LOT less meat damage with my .35 Rem.

I guess if a bear shows up and that's what you have, well, take a good shot and don't expect an exit hole for tracking. Best of luck.

I killed a black bear last year with a 225 gr. Nosler B/T she ran 10 yards across a dry creek bed and that was the end of it. I've used it on deer and elk and it works fine if you do you part right.I still shoot it in almost every cal. I have and have had great results with it. It also shoots better that there partition when it comes to group size.

Hoeram :D

Hoeram,

It's not a surprise you tend to get better accuracy with the BT's. Thinner jackets are easier to keep concentric on forming. That's why match bullets have very thin jackets. The issue is really penetration and whether the luck of hitting or missing a bone will matter too much to the outcome? I would be interested to know whether you hit a bone or not and, if so, what you found behind it? Also what chambering were you using? 225 grains will have a lot of momentum which would help.

Unclenick

I shot the Black bear with a 358 STA also the elk and numerous deer all with the same rifle, all with the same load. The shots where taken either heart or lungs and the damage is not all that bad, And there where a few times when bone was in the way. But with this bullet and 3000 FPS a little bone is not a stopper. If I where hunting a thicker skinned animal I would use a bonded core bullet, but deer, black bear, elk are not cape buffalo and die pretty easy if you place your shot in the right place. I have not seen the need for the bonded core bullet as of yet for any of these animals. Granted I may have one run off one day but I'm thinking it will be my fault for making a shot I should not have taken. I've used the same bullet design 140 gr. Nos B/T with a 280 Rem. with just as deadly of results, it's the shot placement more than the bullet at least that's what I have always found.


Hoeram :D

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/black_bear_pic_.jpg

Moderate velocity + fairly heavy bullet = deep penetration.

I suggest heaviest round nose bullet your 280 will shoot accurately.

TR

spam deleted

Better off with a Barnes X or Nosler Partition.

Anyone have experience with shooting a black bear with Nosler Ballistic Tips? I will be deer hunting in an area where there is a small chance of seeing bear. I am shooting a 280 Remington with 140gr. Ballistic tips. I have used them on deer with no problems, but never on a bear.

Well, this might be a little after that fact, Except if you are hunting in the extended bear season area like we do but here goes.... I load a Nosler 165 grain ballistic tip with IMR 4831 @ 61 grains making it a compressed load to use for deer. Every deer at any range usually well under fifty yards has droped like a dirty sock.
About four years ago while hunting buck I had an shot at a two year old 185 lb. ( estimated live wieght by the game warden) male black bear. The shot was under fifty yards, broad side into his right shoulder as he stood along the edge of a logging trail. The first round hit clean and the bear walked away as if nothing happened. after traveling down a slope about 200 yard he hung up in some dead falls and expired. I might have though I missed him if he wasn;t so close. The 165 ballistic tip all but tore off his left shoulder. The resilance of this bear amazed me. So will the ballistic tip do the job? Well I have another bear tag this year and wont second guess the ability of that round to put another bear down.
I had considered possibly loading something like the A frame that another post mentioned if I were just hunting bear season. But then again, a 220 grain a frame wouldn;t leave much of either shoulder on a white tail.

Good luck
Hunt Safe.

Anyone have experience with shooting a black bear with Nosler Ballistic Tips? I will be deer hunting in an area where there is a small chance of seeing bear. I am shooting a 280 Remington with 140gr. Ballistic tips. I have used them on deer with no problems, but never on a bear.

Well, this might be a little after that fact, Except if you are hunting in the extended bear season area like we do but here goes.... I load a Nosler 165 grain ballistic tip with IMR 4831 @ 61 grains making it a compressed load to use for deer. Every deer at any range usually well under fifty yards has droped like a dirty sock.
About four years ago while hunting buck I had an shot at a two year old 185 lb. ( estimated live wieght by the game warden) male black bear. The shot was under fifty yards, broad side into his right shoulder as he stood along the edge of a logging trail. The first round hit clean and the bear walked away as if nothing happened. after traveling down a slope about 200 yard he hung up in some dead falls and expired. I might have though I missed him if he wasn;t so close. The 165 ballistic tip all but tore off his left shoulder. The resilance of this bear amazed me. So will the ballistic tip do the job? Well I have another bear tag this year and wont second guess the ability of that round to put another bear down.
I had considered possibly loading something like the A frame that another post mentioned if I were just hunting bear season. But then again, a 220 grain a frame wouldn;t leave much of either shoulder on a white tail.

Good luck
Hunt Safe.

Well, this might be a little after that fact, Except if you are hunting in the extended bear season area like we do but here goes.... I load a Nosler 165 grain ballistic tip with IMR 4831 @ 61 grains making it a compressed load to use for deer. Every deer at any range usually well under fifty yards has droped like a dirty sock.
About four years ago while hunting buck I had an shot at a two year old 185 lb. ( estimated live wieght by the game warden) male black bear. The shot was under fifty yards, broad side into his right shoulder as he stood along the edge of a logging trail. The first round hit clean and the bear walked away as if nothing happened. after traveling down a slope about 200 yard he hung up in some dead falls and expired. I might have though I missed him if he wasn;t so close. The 165 ballistic tip all but tore off his left shoulder. The resilance of this bear amazed me. So will the ballistic tip do the job? Well I have another bear tag this year and wont second guess the ability of that round to put another bear down.
I had considered possibly loading something like the A frame that another post mentioned if I were just hunting bear season. But then again, a 220 grain a frame wouldn;t leave much of either shoulder on a white tail.
Hunt Safe.

Light fragile bullets at high velocity generally cause much more meat loss than heavy well constructed bullets at slightly lower velocity. The wound channel of fragile high speed bullets through muscle generally has more bloodshot torn up meat while the damage beyond the wound channel of a heavy well constructed bullet is less torn up and one can "eat right up to the hole" . The 220 gr A-frame would cause less meat loss than your current ballistic load. On a chest shot not involving the shoulders, meat loss is not an issue and faster more fragile bullet usually kills quicker due to more damage to the vitals. But when the shoulder must be penetrated, the lighter fragile bullets may more extensively destroy the shoulder rather than penetrating adequately to the vitals.

I'll be using factory Winchester 130 gr .270 Power Points (3000+ fps in my rifle) for the first few days of PA's deer season in order to have a flat trajectory in the event I get a long range open field shot and then switch to Speer Hot Core 250 gr bullets loaded to 2450 fps in my .35 Whelen for better penetration when bear come back in season the last few days of the first week of the deer season in the unit I hunt (saw 2 in deer archery season). Based on my experience with the 130 gr bullets on deer and the 250 gr bullets on elk and moose, I expect less meat loss on a deer with the heavier bullet.

In a word (and IMHO) "No".

I would never, EVER use a Ballistic Tip on black bear. I have used them on deer and they are very frangible. Another poster alluded to the fact as well.............what the gun rag writers tell you about what it takes to kill black bears does not apply in Pennsylvania. In PA a hunter stands a good chance of going at it with a blackie that will dwarf inland grizzlies. 600, 700, 800 lbs. or more is not at all out of the question. Who here would recommend the Ballistic Tip for grizz??? I know firsthanded that you don't neccissarily have to use an ultra-premium bullet (my largest blackie was dropped by a Sierra Game King). But in no way shape or form would I ever use a Nosler Ballistic Tip for bear.........not here in PA..........not anywhere.

Funny thing happened to me this last week. I found that if you don't shoot animals in the meat portions, you don't wreck meat, regardless of bullet size or speed. I already knew that all, and I don't shoot animals in the shoulder for that specific reason.

Funny thing happened to me this last week. I found that if you don't shoot animals in the meat portions, you don't wreck meat, regardless of bullet size or speed. I already knew that all, and I don't shoot animals in the shoulder for that specific reason.

Unfortunately in much of the thick woods in Pennsylvania, unlike the more open country of much of the west, the only options may be to take a quartering shot that takes out a shoulder (either in entering or leaving the vitals) as the animal crosses an opening or not taking a shot at the only animal one has the opportunity to take all season.

In a word (and IMHO) "No".

I would never, EVER use a Ballistic Tip on black bear. I have used them on deer and they are very frangible. Another poster alluded to the fact as well.............what the gun rag writers tell you about what it takes to kill black bears does not apply in Pennsylvania. In PA a hunter stands a good chance of going at it with a blackie that will dwarf inland grizzlies. 600, 700, 800 lbs. or more is not at all out of the question. Who here would recommend the Ballistic Tip for grizz??? I know firsthanded that you don't neccissarily have to use an ultra-premium bullet (my largest blackie was dropped by a Sierra Game King). But in no way shape or form would I ever use a Nosler Ballistic Tip for bear.........not here in PA..........not anywhere.

I used to deer and bear hunt the Poconos of PA !

The last couple years I hunted there a boy killed a 660 pound dressed bear near to us that he shot ONE time with a 243 WIN using the Nosler 95 grain BT !

The following year a guy about a mile from where I normally hung my deerstand shot a 825 pound dressed bear one time with an 06 shooting the 180 REM Core Lokt factory stuff !

And my buddy up ther called me Thanksgiving night of this year to tell me another bear had been killed in the same general area as the 825 pounder . That one weighed 718 pounds !

On the 718 pounder he didn't know how many shots or what shot with . But it's still a big bruin !

The last couple years I hunted there a boy killed a 660 pound dressed bear near to us that he shot ONE time with a 243 WIN using the Nosler 95 grain BT !

I don't disbelieve the statement at all.

But a stunt like that is just asking for trouble. The .243 is NOT a suitable bear gun with any bullet, let alone a varmint bullet. Irresponsible.

Funny thing happened to me this last week. I found that if you don't shoot animals in the meat portions, you don't wreck meat, regardless of bullet size or speed. I already knew that all, and I don't shoot animals in the shoulder for that specific reason.

In my humble opinion, Better a shoulder shot deer that drops where he stands , then a deer lost in the woods after an "expertly " placed shot.

I don't shoot a deer unless I am going to use the meat. So I don't shoot the meat either, at least on unwounded animals. There have been a couple of occasions where it was just "shoot any part you see" to stop the already wounded deer, but my goal is always to preserve what I'm after.

A deer shot with an appropriate round through the chest will not be hard to find.

I don't think I would recomend the 140gr Nosler Ballistic Tip in the .280 rem for black bear. Black bear can very widly in size from as small as 120lbs for a yearling to over 700 lbs. A .280 can push a 140gr bullet to almost 3000 fps. That kind of velocity will mean a Balistic tip is going to expand very rapidly, and may not hold together enough to get deep enough penetration on a big bear. A ballistic tip loaded in somthing like a .35 Whelen, .350 Rem Mag, or .338-06 should work well for bear, but in the .280 I think I would preferr a bonded core bullet like the 150gr Swift Scirrocco, The 154gr Hornady Interbond, or the 160gr Nosler Accubond. As other have mentioned, the 150gr or 160gr Nosler Partition bullets should also work very well on deer or bear.

Zimmy