I've been using a load of 20.9grs or WW296 with a 210gr XTP in a Remington case and a Fed 155 primer. I'm curious how this compares to the loads any of you .41 fanatics are using with a comparable bullet. I shoot these in all my .41's with no problem. I'm just curious how it compares to what you regularly shoot. It does flatten the primers somewhat with no additional pressure indicators and good case life.

I shot some 210g XTP's with 22.0g of H110 out of my redhawk and while the recoil negligible, the velocity was only 43fps more than the 250g cast performance bullets I shoot. If I had a long barreled 41mag, i'd probably use the XTP's for deer. It's a nice bullet, but I think i'll stick to the 250's for general use. doug

41fan,
the only reason I'm using the XTP's is that I bought 5K blem bullets last year. The blemish is cosmetic only from what I can tell and the accuracy is as good as any bullet I've fired. I also shoot a SAECO #415 220gr TCGC that I drop out of a 4 cavity. For hunting I'm still using some SSK's that I cast out of a borrowed mould a few years ago. It's the same bullet that Beartooth sells, about 295grs. That bullet will go 1300fps out of my Bisley It penetrates well, but doesn't have the meplat for a true killer of larger game. It's almost odd how the 41,44, and 45 pretty much push a 300gr bullet to almost the same velocity. The 45LC will push a better bullet a little faster, but I never feel undergunned with the heavy 300gr 41's. I'm thinking of having a new mould, or a LBT design, made up somwhere in the 260-270gr range with a length suited to the Ruger Blackhawk cylinder length. I also shoot a 657, but I would never feed it the super stout loads, as it is a pre-improved frame strength model. I may go a little heavier if the cylinder length allows. I shoot on an indoor range in the winter and like to shoot jacketed bullets when indoors.

I'm just trying to get a comparison to what other people are doing. The Hornady manual shows this load at about 1.5 grs below max. The Winchester data shows it as a .5grs above. It shoots well and with no adverse pressure signs in the 3 Rugers and the Smith I mentioned. I know the Blackhawks will handle the heavier load, but I like to have a load I can fire in all my revolvers. I use the 296 for a lot of cartridges because it's relativley inexpensive when I buy it in the 8lb tin. I've played with H110 and find it a little more uniform, but very little. I still keep a few pounds of it around to experiment with. I also like to use AA#9 in the 41, but the 296 in large quantities is more readily available where I live.

I've tried most suitable powders in the .41, but I mainly use max velocity loads.I'm just looking to see what other people are using in my favorite revolver caliber.

Has anyone tried the .41GNR from Gary Reeder? I've got a new 6.5" Blackhawk that's almost beggin to get a rechamber. The only problem I see with the GNR round is that it's hyped with light bullets, not the heavy ones. If I want a varmint pistol, I'll use a 10mm. I would imagine with a necked cartridge that it would be detrimental to use a heavy cast bullet that intruded on the powder column. I would think it would have a opportunity to heat the bullet before it got out of the case. That might be a question for Marshall.

Do use 296 in the .41mag., as well as 2400 and Unique, each with its own bullet.

Part of the problem is that Iv;e been shooting the .41 for a long time, found good loads that work, only to have later editions of loading manuals reduce thier charges leaving me "over the top". Noramlly, I'd not exceed a listed load...but in this case, i've been suing them for a bit more than 25 years, they show no problems in my guns, and I'll ****ed well keep using them (with the exception of the 2400 loads...presonal opinion is tht today's 2400 is NOT the same as the "old" 2400).

(Realize...these are my loads...I accept the possible danger of using them on a personal level, but don't recommend others use them).

Have used the 210gr. XTP, but tend to stick withe the old style speed JSWCHP 200gr. over 22.8gr. of 296. With a 220gr. cast SWC, have been using 18.0gr. of "new" 2400 in place of my old loading of 19gr....even the 18gr. loading is above what some data shows. Unique gets used in 9gr. doeses under a 210gr. cast WC.

Alos have an old 210gr. HBWC mold that gets used occasionally...but that ones gets very light target type loads...shoots great, but is such a pain in the rear to cast, I seldom use it.

H110 and WW296 are reported to be the same powder and differ just as one would expect lot to lot variations of the same powder. That being said I use a load of 23 grains of H110 with any bullet between 200-220 grains. There have been no pressure signs at all and the cases even drop free from the S&W revolvers. With the 170 Sierra I use 26 grains and with the 255 Cast Performance WNGC 22. Bullets used have been the Sierra 210, Hornady 210 JHP, XTP & FMJ, Speer 200 & 220, Remington 210 JSP.

One thing I did notice however is that Remington cases seem to develop pressure signs earlier than WW cases. I use only WW cases and WWLP primers for all full power loads and keep the Remington cases for target loads.

Attached is a picture of a .41 that Gary Reeder made for me two years ago. It is a .41 Magnum with a .41 GNR cylinder. Have not had a chance to load for the GNR yet. If you want something even better try the .410 GNR..I am thinking of having that cylinder added....

Bob

RJM,
Thanks for the input, I'm just trying to see where I'm at. The tip on the Winchester brass is also useful, although it's been my experience that different brands of brass can take on different characteristics as far as this goes dependant on the caliber. I don't have any real pressure signs, except a slightly flattened primer, which I believe is a worthless sign of pressure in a revolver, much dependant on the actual brand of primer being used.

Keep me posted on you progress with the .41 GNR, as I said, I've got a new 6 1/2" Blackhawk that is a likely candidate. In the meantime I'm anxiously awaiting my order from Corbin to show up! I should probably go cast some bullets and relax, as it will likley be a couple months before I get it. I'm going to be making some heavy for caliber jacketed and base-guard lead bullets. I've had very good luck with the heavy SSK design bullet in the hunting length revolvers and am looking forward to seeing what I can do with some jacketed slugs.

That's a very nice revolver, I've often looked at Gary's stuff and considered having him make me one. How much "better" than a stock revolver, trigger pull excepted, is it? Is his finish a durable one?

I am hoping to get around to loading up some .41 GNR rounds pretty soon now that the weather is getting nice enough to do some chrono work. But like you said, this cartridge is a light bullet proposition only. If you wanted to shoot real heavy .41s then look at his new .410 GNR. That will throw the heavy cast bullets very fast. It would also require a whole new barrel and cylinder on your gun as it can only be done 5 shot.
Garys work is excellent and well worth the money. I was lucky and had the work down when he was well below reasonable...it was cheap. The finish he puts on is great and much nicer than the Freedom Arms Premier finish. I am even thinking of having him do some engraving on that gun and put the Vapor Honed finish on.
Accuracy wise it is hard to tell. All my .41s seem to shoot well. This gun has only had 1 load through it and that is the 22 gr. H110/ 255 CPBC /1375 fps load. No target loads for this gun. I didn't get to hunt last season but hope to take a deer and maybe a black bear with it this year.....and antelope next....Bob

I put a red dot scope on a 657 Smith. Using Dry Creeks 230 gr Keith over 10 gr of AA 7 and resting the butt of the gun on the roof of my truck, I put 6 in 3/4" and in the center of the bull from 30 yards. Mild quiet practice load. I have never shot these over a chronograph but I am assuming they go about 1000-1100 fps.
I always end the shooting session with a full chamber of "hunters" so I don't get lulled to sleep by the light loads.

RJM-
SURE LIKE THE IDEA OF THE GOLD BEAD FRONT SIGHT, AND INTEND TO PUT THEM ON MY NEW REDHAWK 5 1/2, WHEN IT GETS HERE. WHAT DOES THE REAR SIGHT LOOK LIKE?? I TOO AM A LONG TIME FAN, AND LOADER OF THE 41 MAG. i USE XTP'S FOR ALL HUNTING HANDGUN LOADS, AND USE A LOAD IN 800X THAT I GOT FROM GEORGE NONTE, FOR THE 41. I JUST SEE NO REASON TO GO ELSEWHERE HERE. WHILE IT IS TRUE SOME NEWER INFO MAY DELETE YOUR LOAD, IT SURE DOESN'T MEAN IT IS UNSAFE-- THAT HAPPENED TO ME WITH A 10MM LOAD FROM IMR-- I CALLED THEM ON IT, AND WAS TOLD THEY SIMPLY COULD NOT RECOMMEND IT AS A STEADY DIET IN THE AUTOS, BUT IT WAS FINE FOR REVOLVERS, OF WHICH I NOW HAVE 7. IF YOU HAVE A LOAD, AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, I FOR ONE WOULD NOT BE REAL QUICK TO THROW IT OUT. IF THE POWDER MAKER STATES THERE HAS BEEN A BIG CHANGE IT YOUR POWDER, CALL THEM. CHANCES ARE, THEY WILL CALL IT SOMETHING ELSE, AS IN A NEW POWDER. REASON BEING THERE IS JUST SO MUCH INFO OUT THERE. OR THEY WILL JUST STOP MAKING YOUR POWDER ALTOGETHER, WHICH WE HAVE SEEN DONE.

STILL- BE CAREFUL--:)

Tusker,
If you ordered your gold bead from Ruger, the rear sight is a shallow V with a verticle white line beloe it. Works pretty good.


kciH,
About primer signs. I loaded 50 rnds of 230 Leadheads over 10 grs of A 7 and 50 rounds over 14 grs of A7. The 10 gr rounds have a flater primer than the 14s do. I assume it's not getting enough expansion to seal the brass to the cylinder walls and allowing the cases to slip back a bit. Nice load though, goes where you look.

Read an interesting article about Skeeter Skelton. He was an advocate of the 44 special 250 gr bullets and speeds of 1000 fps or less except when elk hunting when he bumped up to the Keith load of 17.5 grs of 2400 which gave a 1200 fps load. The point being that you don't HAVE to shoot a load that hurts you as bad as the recipient.

For further evidence of what Jim is saying about hunting loads, just read Linebaugh's deer and antelope hunting loads. The loads he has used to good effect are little more powerful than the factory ammunition with better designed lead bullets.

Jim,
I understand that the primers can be seen to get flatter, my argument is that if you use different brands of primers, they flatten at different pressure levels as a result of harder/softer cup material. The best way I know to determine if you're getting a good seal is the lack of black soot on the cartridge walls.

I'm sure you're right on the primers but I wouldn't know. Two things that don't change for the 41s are the primers, CCI 350s and the brass, WW. The 44 gets the same primers with Starline brass.
All of the light loads I have tried have shown smoky brass. The guns are dirty after shooting but my hands don't hurt. I'm not real big on unnecessary pain.

Tusker...sorry but I have not been over here in some time. The rear sight as was stated by another poster is an Express V with a white line. I shot ok with that set up but ended up replacing the rear sight with a peep sight from ONE RAGGED HOLE that is available through Brownells. It is like looking through a peep sight on a rifle.

Glad to see that there are so many .41 shooters out there. Just got to handle one of the new Ruger .41 Hunters...might be on the top of the "must have " list...and who here has bought one of the new Marlin .41 carbines to make sure that they keep them in production.....Bob

RJM,
I have trouble with verticle stringing of my groups with the peep sight. Have you seen any of that?

RJM,
In spite of Marlin listing the .41 carbines on their website, they are NOT a regular production rifle. They are making a certain number of them, all of which are allocated to dealers. If you want one, you'd best get it soon. If your dealer didn't want to get one, you can have him "find" one for you. There will be some around, but I'd rather buy it from a dealer now than get gouged for it later. The other unfortunate thing is that Marlin made this a Micro-groove barrel on the .41.

http://www.fototime.com/2D7FE8AEF84EF69/standard.jpg

RJM- The TWINS--
This nice set of consecutive serial numbered MDL 57's arrived at long last. I've always been a fan of the 41, and HA! the 10MM. After arrival, it was decided that these are two pair of factory Rosewood grips, sure did make my day. :)

Nice Pair Tusker!!!

Old Jim,
No I have not had any problem with stringing shots with the peep type sights. Using a bead front sight I just put the bead on the target and when everything is centered just "squeeze" just like the peep sighted rifles I shoot. Had the same set on a Redhawk but recently sold the gun because only the factory grip came close to fitting my hand and with heavy loads it was unpleasant to shoot.

kciH...I am checking with my distributor as to the availability of the Marlin .41. I already have one of the original straight stock ones but if the right "used" pistol grip model come along I can't say I would turn it down.

Bob

Tusker...what are you getting for velocity out of the 800X with the 210 Hornady...?

Bob

...and while we're on the subject of .41s.....has anyone tried loading the new 300 grain jacketed Hornady bullet for the .405 Winchester in the .41 Mag. case? The bullet diameter is .411 .vs .410 for the magnum.... Might be able to got 1500-1700 fps from a rifle. Just a thought....

Bob

RJM,
What kind of velocity are you getting out of your lever gun with the 210gr bullets? I'm thinking of getting one of the carbines to go with my revolvers.

Lets see....23 gr. H110/ WW case and primer/ 210 Hornady/1350 from a 6" M57 and 1850 from the Marlin.

Factory loads... Federal 210/1350 from M57 and 1705 from the Marlin. Remington 210 SP/1310 from the M57 and 1780 from the Marlin.

All the above was fired on the same day.

The 170 Sierra with 26.0 gr. H110/WW case and primer/1535-5.5" Redhawk/1650-6'5" Blackhawk/1800 10" TC/1990 14" TC/2100-Marlin.

Bob

Called one of the distributors yesterday. The salesman said that the Marlins have been available but demand has so far outstriped supply. He has seen 6 or so come through and they never gather any dust. Bob

RJM,
I may have made a mistake in saying that these are not regular production. My dealer is now telling me they are not allocated because of a limited run, but because of the demand as you mentioned. My mistake. Either way I'm covered because I ordered mine tonight. Hopefully it will be here soon so I can include it in my testing with some new loads. It will be interesting to see how it compares velocity-wise with the revolvers. Did your dealer give you a ballpark price on these?

...you will enjoy the rifle. I set mine up with one of the Ashley Scout Mounts and Leupld Scout Scope. It already had a Williams receiver sight on it and with the scope removed the peep sight looks right over the mount. It is also possible by using a set of Weaver 4X4 Extention Rings to mount a regular eye relief scope. 3 in 1..how can you go wrong.

It will cost your dealer about $380 with postage to get the rifle into his shop. What he charges from there will depend on his overhead...and how nice you have been in the past....


Bob

Bob,
I'm most likely going to go with a Williams peep sight. I've got to find a smith around here who will drill and tap the reciever for it and not make me leave it at his shop for 3 months. I really don't want to put a scope on this, I think I can get pretty good accuracy with a peep. Have you tried the Ashley Ghost Ring sight on any rifles? If so, how where they for accuracy testing?

As a side note, a LER pistol scope works perfectly on my Savage Scout rifle with the forward scope mount. I've heard several people say it won't work, and it may not with all scopes, but it is possible with some.

Thanks,

Steven

It is too bad that Marlin discontinued drilling for the receiver sights. You can however get one of the Willaims WGRS receiver sights that sit right on top of the receiver. I have one on a 700 Classic .350 Reminton Magnum with a B-Square Scout Mount and they work fine. The Ashley is a great sight but I am not real big on ghost rings...much prefer the Williams Gold Ring apeture. Check the Brownells Catalog as they have 3-4 receiver sights for Marlins that will require no drilling.

Some pistol scope will work..it just depends on their eye relief.

And my mistake..the Leupold Scout Scope is on the 700 Classic. There is an original Redfield IER scope on the Marlin that dates from the 60's.

Bob

Bob,
Thanks for the tip on the no-drill sights. I'm not terribly fond of the WGRS, I have one on my TC Black Diamond. The sight works good, the adjustment sucks. I'll take a closer look at my Brownells catalog tonight and see what's available.

Thanks

kciH - You're right about the LER pistol scope. I have a Burris 2x7 Signature Posi-lock on an Ashley mount on my Marlin 1895LTD1 and it works perfectly at all power settings.

I've been intrigued lately of the pistol cartridges in the lever guns - especially the .45LC and .357 Max. Having the Ruger Blackhawk 3-screw in .41 Mag just might be the push off the fence to get one chambered in that round.

I enjoy your comments here on the board.

kdub,
I don't know of any .357 Max lever guns, and I'm afraid we'll never see one unless it's custom made. I'm still waiting on my .41 lever gun to show up. I wish I would have had it yesterday at the range.

Yesterday I put 3 different loads using the 210gr XTP and Lil'Gun through 5 different revovlers in 41 Mag over the chronograph. This was done to see the differences in 4 different barrel lenghts. I'll probably check the difference in the cyinder-barrel gap to see if it corresponds with the difference in velocity of the two revovlers with the same barrel lenght. I"ll perhaps post the info as an Excel spreadsheet if anyone is interested in seeing what I came up with once I have the time to type it up. I was somewhat dissapointed in the consistency of the loadings, accuracy was good however. I also tested a couple loads with my SAECO 415 bullet and 2400, the uniformity seemed near the same as the other loads tested. I'm borrowing data for that combo from the 210gr jacketed data, so I'm still working up. I'm thinking of heading to the range today, but I still have 5 revolvers to clean :(

Hello kciH,
I'd be interested in seeing your spreadsheet when you're finished.

I've been checkin into casting my own but haven't decided yet what I want to start with.

I went to the range and came home with 5 guns to clean.....once! :D

ps... I picked up my 41 lever on Friday, hopin to shoot it this next friday, it's been a long wait.

Shoot - I hardly EVER go to the range with less than 5 firearms. Any less and it doesn't seem worthwhile!! My system is that it requires a week between outings to get the guns clean. It also takes the week to reload ammo. By the time the guns are clean and ammo loaded, it's time to load them up and head out the door again!

Have been concentrating on the hunting loads for the selected rifles planned for the coming season - providing the Gods that control the draw cooperate. Now that hot weather is here, will be shooting the small bore stuff which don't heat up so fast.

I've got the data from this weekend in spreadsheet format. If you want a copy of it let me know by PM. You will have to have MS Excel 2000 or newer to view it. I tested 5 loads in 5 revolvers. You can download a program from Microsoft that will allow you to view this, but make no changes or additions, for free by clicking HERE (http://office.microsoft.com/downloads/default.aspx?Product=Excel&Version=95|97|98|2000|2002&Type=Converter|Viewer)
Just download the Excel 97/2000 Viewer and you will be able to view and print the data.

KciH,
Thanx for the spreadsheet. I'm already convinced that I need a chronograph. There's a lot to pour over, well, a lot for me. I'll study it more tonight, but I have one question. Were the cast bullets with a Gas Check?
I'm assuming so unless I hear differently.

Ira41,
The bullets did include a gas check, that's the GC in TCGC, the TC stands for a truncated cone design. They are listed as a 220gr bullet, but come out at 224 made from wheelweights with the gas check and lube applied. These are not a good hunting bullet design, but they have been very accurate for me in the past. I have a feeling that 1600fps will be attainable with these out of the longer revolvers. The bullets where quenched in water straight out of the mould and sized to .411 and showed no signs of leading out of any of the revolvers tested. I shot 100 of them out of the Blackhawk Hunter on Sunday after I had installed a 2x scope and they where making one big hole at 25yds and groups of about 1.5" at 50yds for 6 shots. I didn't see any real difference in accuracy between the two powder charge levels. I'll see how they do at 100yds when I take the 2x off and put a 4x on it.

Did some shooting with the Marlin Monday. At 120 yards from the sitting position put 6x6 on a 1 gallon antifreeze jug. This is one nice shooting rifle.

Bob

Jug huntin at 120 yards, I'm ready to do a little of that! I'm gonna kill some railroad ties on sunday.

My marlin is in the corner and it won't stay there, keeps jumpin into my hands evertime i go into that room.