Well the rain finally stop this weekend so I could get out and throw so more lead down range! The more I shoot this gun the more I like it. I've got almost 100 rds throught it and the action is just as tight as the day I bought it-so much for the folks who said it would fall apart after a 100 rds or so!! Now I grant you my loads have not been Hot loads!! Starting / mid range loads! ( 1900-2050 fps ). Must of the rounds have been Cast bullets250-300gr - a few Jacketed 250gr-300 gr XTPs It seems to like Jacketed over Cast bullets- except maybe for the PB 255 gr SWC which by the way my Win 94 just loves. I have some 300 gr XTP mags coming and I don't see any problem of pushing the to 2100-2200 fps out of this gun.

Now if your in the market for a companion rifle for your favorite 454 side arm, one will not go wrong in getting one of these! You'll also have a very capable rifle that is capable of taking anything that a 444, 450, 45-70 can take at the same ranges !! Welcome to the world of the 454 Casull in a rifle.
:D


http://mypeoplepc.com/members/gacker1143/gregshuntingfirearms/

Glad to hear you are getting good results! How is the recoil in that little gun?

ID

I was thinking about your posts when I saw one of these at the gun shop. Did you have a recoil pad put on yours? How do you like it? Is it drilled for a reciever sight from the factory?

IDShooter

Well I'll tell you if it didn't come with the recoil pad you wouldn't shoot it much.!:D The gun only weighs 6.3 Lbs!!
And you know when you've let one go. Its stout, but not abusive. I've shot some big rounds- 338, 300 Win Mag etc.
I don't think it as bad as the 338! Besides in a Lever BB you kind of exspect a good kick!:D This going to make a heck of a Timber gun for Blackies/Elk/Cougar!

kciH
It comes with the pad- I don't think you can put a reciever site on it cause of the safety. And putting a linear site probaly wouldn't be a good idea-Recoil!!

Shot mine for the first time today. Love the 45LC through it. Probably going to be the staple diet for mine. I have to get some dies to really begin to play with this rifle. The 454 is all there. I have a new found respect for those who shoot this out of a handgun. Haven't done any shooting for accuracy yet, but when I do I'll post the results.

Anyone have any ideas on how to get the 45LC to feed better from the mag??? I read something somewhere, but can't recall where. Thanks, LIV

lostinVt
Mine seems to feed well with LC ? Maybe it's the bullet stile?
With 454 rounds I've notice that with mine I have to keep the OAL at no more than 1.650 with the WFN/SWC Cast bullets. The bullets seem to catch on the lip of the breech. Yep the 454 has a healthy kick to it -don't it!!:D

Well the testing is done for the load for Bear(Spring Hunt).
Settled on 300 gr XTP-Mags- Still working on the 300 gr WFN Cast bullets-haven't found the accuracy I'm looking for-yet?
the load I'm going to use is just slightly under my requirement of 2000 fps out my Rossi 454-but make the requirement for the SRH of 1600 fps.

300 gr XTP-MAG
30.5 grs of W296
OAL 1.650-anything longer will not feed!!:rolleyes:
MV 1995 Avg.
ME 2,668 ft lbs

Range Vel Energy Moment Drop
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs/sec) (inches)
0 2001.5 2668.4 2.67 -1.5
25 1953.0 2540.7 2.60 0.3
50 1905.3 2418.0 2.54 1.5
75 1858.3 2300.3 2.48 2.1
100 1812.2 2187.5 2.41 2.1
125 1766.9 2079.4 2.35 1.4
150 1722.4 1976.0 2.29 -0.0
175 1678.7 1877.2 2.24 -2.1
200 1635.9 1782.7 2.18 -5.0
225 1594.0 1692.5 2.12 -8.7
250 1553.1 1606.6 2.07 - 13.3

Looks like I got a good load for just about anything I want to shoot with the 454! Accurate- 2" at 60 yards!! Now to see what it does 100, 150 ,175 and 200 Yds if I can see that far with open sights? :rolleyes:

Looking for a light load using a 250 grain LRNFP with 454 cases and blue dot if anyone has some. I have some H110 and Lil Gun around too, but think that light loads would be a bad idea with them. Thanks

lostinVt

I don't know of any data for blue dot, but if you can get a hold of some W231/Bullseye you can use the data for reg 45 LC loads for light loads in your 454's. I've used 10 grs of W231 under a 230 LTC bullets for plinking/whisle pig load. It should work fine for your 250gr load as well. Should come out at around 1300-1400 Fps. Unfortunately we don't have alot of data around for the Rifle in 454 though most loads for the pistol work I've found you can not use the same loads for rifle as with the pistol you have to start at the starting loads for pistol and work up. I've had some pretty bad case failures at the top end of some loads- don't know if its the brass or the loads were to stout?

It would be interesting to see the results of your 45-70 equivalent loads.

Charlie Z
I guess your wondering about 350gr-405gr loads? Unfortunately I don't have any of these bullets in these weights. I was basing this on getting a 360gr bullet to run 1400fps-1493 out of a 7.5" barrel SRH so out of a 20" barrel
454 Lever gun it should come out at around 1600-1700 fps which is very close or better then some 45-70 loads.
a 405gr pistol load at 1300 fps should run about 1650 out of a 20" barrel.
Compared to most of the data I've seen for 1895's in a few load swaps the 454 measures up to and surpasses some of the loading for the 45-70 . Granted yes the 454 will be working at the top end of it's load range where as the 45-70 is not, it does compare /is in the league of the 444, 45-70 and 450. Which in my opion makes it a very good heavy game getter!!:D

OOOOOooooooWEEEE!

What a little darlin! I love this thing.

I have had the little whippersnapper for a couple of weeks now and am just getting bugs worked out.

I think I may have found the perfect solution to my ultimate brush gun. It is very easy shooting and accurate with the loads I use in my Smith Mountain Gun and hits like a sledgehammer when loaded up to snuff in Casull brass.

I like the idea of keeping my reloading bench simple. It did get a mite cornfusing with the .458 bullets for the 45-70 laying about.

Being able to push 300 grain gas checked .452's to velocities relegated to the 45-70 makes the .454 a giant killer. The ease of downloading makes it a real meat gun.

I am pleased with it. Very pleased.

I can only wonder at the type of loads that will come about as folks begin to experiment with the .454 in a rifle. I think that experimentation with sabots will be in order.

All my best,

Scotty

Coldfingers
Yep it rocks!! For the 454 Casull shooter it a marriage made in heaven!!! Bore bore punch!! And able to take just about anything out to 200 yds or more! What more could a mountain hunter want!! I feel the Rossi rifle in 454 Casull is going to take this cartrdge to bigger and better things-as far as loading anyway!! God I love these big 45's!!!:D

LostinVt,
My Hodgdon load manual #26 shows a starting load of 19grains of Blue Dot for a 250gr Bullet, unfortunatley it doesn't list a maximum. I have used 17 grains with a 285gr bullet, and it was a real nice shooting load, just dirtier than I prefer, but as the 2 pounds of Blue Dot were free, I am not complaining.

Beeman,

Timely post.

I had a large quantity of cheap cast 300 grainers that will never get shot from my Smith MG.

They are great plinking fodder from the Rossi over 17g of BlueDot.

Since the BlueDot seems to be the favorite powder for the MG, this works nicely.

I am sure enjoying having a rifle that eats my handgun ammo with ease.

The river broke up a few days ago and I almost have the honey-do list to the point that a boat trip will not cause me to HAVE to sleep outside. Our black bears are moving and the Grizz are are cleaning up winterkill. Life is good.

I am still fiddling with the front sight so that I can get both the Casull loads and the Colt loads to print within the parameters of the rear sight ramp. The front sight was too tall to even get close with the rear sight all the way up.

Scotty/North Pole

I have noticed that 45 Colt type loads do not print anywhere near the 454 loads. I am still looking at putting a taller front sight on so that I can get the 454 loads to shoot where the front sight says it oughta. At 25 yards I bet that there is at least 8 inches difference between the light and heavy loads. Sounds like a good opportunity to put a firesight on the front end to me. Still love shooting it though. There is no doubt when you pull the trigger that you are unleashing the hellhound. I shot a 5 gallon pail the other day that had been filled with dried hardwood. Due to the hot loads hitting high, I ended up hitting in the top 6 inches of the pail, dead center. I am recovering from the recoil...not unpleasant, just roll with it, and the target is gone. It knocked the bucket over, and sent it meandering down into a ditch in front of the sand banking. Shot the bucket doesn't have as much of a ring as kicked the bucket but I think the results are the same.

For those of you who have heard of Terry Murbach from Cor-Bon, he reports that his 454 Rossi is still as good as the day he first got it. Terry planned on shooting his each week with factory 2nds ammo just to see if it would blow apart as predicted by some. Still going strong so far. That's about it from Vt. Spring has sprung...all 3 days of it. Take Care LIV

Unique seems to be a versatile powder, great for plinking loads, I'm sure there is a few using the bullet you mentioned. I think there is a few in the Speer manual. A little dirty though. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

Rmouleart
I just tried some Unique loads this weekend- 10grs under 300 XTP-mag. Shot great but only came out at 1195 FPS!
Was trying to get a light load for daughter to use bear hunting -just alittle to light-group was alittle over an inch at fifty yds!:D

LostinVT...I think that Rossi got the hint about the taller front sight before mine came off the line. The front sight on mine was so tall that I had the rear sight run all the way up for the .454 loads and could not bring the light loads onto paper no matter what. A six inch mill file has succeeded in getting it so that I can use the avaliable ramp to get both to print on paper.

RAMbo...I have a mass quantity of the old (dirty) Unique on hand. It'll work in a pinch. I should just resign myself to using the cleaning rod and get that stuff burned up.

GunNut...1195 would do it with a cast bullet I am thinking (up close and personal anyways) but I wonder if that XTP would expand at that speed. I have been running a few of the same bullets over a hefty dose of H110. I think on meat they would flatten out to the size of a quarter at least.

Still havin fun, The Puma is like one of Homers Sireens (sic?) She just keeps singing that song...

Scotty

It's nice you guys bought the .454, but all your loads duplicate .45LC. We haven't seen any data (or bruises) on .454 elephant loads... :D

Charlie,

I had made up a half dozen loads with a Hornady 300gr XTP-MAG over 30.5grains of H110.

Seemed to be a thumper at both ends but no real data at this point.

I am still scrinchin my face up and pluggin my ears when I shoot it with heavy loads. I guess I just don't quite have the faith in it as the heavy loaded Marlin 45-70 ;*)

The 454 in a rifle at this point is kind of new territory for alot of folks (me included)

I had my first case split in it today shooting a 255 gr Keith over a heavy ruger load of H110.

I will say that at a hundred yards, an old propane tank will not hold the bullet. There was a guy next to me plinkin at my tank with a Marlin 357. (shooting specials at 158gr) He was making dents, but not holes.

Time is goint to tell if I wasted money on the Puma. At this point, I think I am ok...

Scotty

Well, Scotty, at least it'll be a better moose gun than a .22!!!

Hey, if you get a chance to put a bullet in a roadkill moose carcass, that would be interesting to see how it work at the velocities the rifle will give you.

Wow. I'm sure it'll hold together. I just get a little punchy with 5lb elephant guns... Sounds like it would be a really good plane gun.

Charle,

Rossi was kind enough to put a nice squshie recoil pad on the rifle. That should have been an indicator of sorts...

So far, no bruising to report thanks to Rossi.

My thoughts when I picked up the little rascle was to use for the truck/plane/boat rifle. It fits that application nicely. It is a very mild shooter with the loads for my Smith. I plunked a few round balls around the yard the other day with it. That was kind of fun. I am going to attempt to make a shotshell of sorts with a roundball on top to see if I can make an acceptable grouse load.

If I had any complaints at all, it is the brass life with the heavy loads. I guess the 45/70 spoiled me in that respect since it is hard to wear to that brass. On the other hand, 45Colt brass is easy enough to come by. I have also been watching the ammo supplies at the general sporting goods stores around. .454 ammo is as common as .44 or .357 (although no where near as cheap!)

My only other beef was the split that developed in the forearm. I think that is a common trait.

All in all, this seems to be a very versitile leveraction and is built very tight. For the die hard Colt finatic, it is a real treat.

I had gotten some data from a fella at Marlin talk for loads using a resized 405 grain bullet from the 45-70 stock. I am having a machinist make me up a sizer die so I can try those.

Jack R...I understand that there are a limited number of stainless "trappers" put out by Rossi. If I stumble accross one, I bet that fate will tempt me beyond reason! I do like the 20" blued version though. I bet it is going to look real sexy when the bluing starts to wear off the the stock gets chewed up a bit from warding off charging chipmunks.

Mike, the thing I find most appealing about the little carbine is that it feels just as slim and trim in the hand as my .22Mag, and is about as cheap to shoot with reloads. My guess is that it will be just a tad more effective if I ever make a moose mad again (not that I ever want to do that mind you!) I am eagerly awaiting the next roadside service I am called out to perform. I am betting I will need a shovel to dig the bullet out of the dirt for inspection though.

All my best,

Scotty

Coldfingers
That's exactly the load I've worked up too, but mine is with W296. I'm getting 1995 FPS average at 10f over the Chrono
and it gives me a nice 1-1 1/2" group at 50 yds! :) Tried 31 gr but the group opened up to about 3" so I backed down. It still beats all the Trapdoor loads for the 45-70 and some of the Marlin loads as well for the 300 gr bullets.

I also had a win case split in two at the 31gr loadings- did you just buy thoose cases- cause I'm thinking they had a bad lot?
:D

GunNut,

My case split was with Win brass in .45Colt using H110 under a 255g SWC. That was the only one of the batch that did that so who knows. I shot up the rest of that bunch this am at the range. There was a mansized chunk-o-steel at the 300 yard mark. It took a few to figgure how much front site to have sticking up with those loads, but once I got that down...

A very satisfying clang kind of sound from way down yonder.

The MarlinTalk folks would hang me in effigy, but this is the funnest rifle I have ever had. I can see why the folks that have them in .357 get so worked up.

I only have a weeks worth of black bear clients this spring so it looks like maybe, just maybe, I will get some time to hunt durring the two week "prime time". I sure enjoy taking non-residents out in the field, but not being able to hunt while under contract is kind of the pits ;*)

I am definately going to have to start casting if this keeps up 8*()

Scotty

Coldfingers

What are you using for loads and methods with the roundball plunkers that you are playing with. That sounds like quite a bit of fun. Any luck yet on a shot shell. I thought about using a cardboard wad, birdshot and another cardboard wad with a nice roll crimp on top. Maybe a little wax to complete the seal, but I am not sure. I imagine that the 454 brass would hold a decent charge of shot, especially compared to the other handgun cartridges. A 45 acp shot capsule would probably be interesting as well.

I agree about the .357 Rossi. That sounds like one **** of a fun gun. Cheaper to shoot with either factory ammo or reloads.

Charlie Z-

I shot the last elephant in Vermont a few years ago and have since put the elephant loads away. OK I am lying, I still play with the elephant loads. I touched off 36.5 grains of Lil Gun under a 240 grain XTP Mag that made me decide that taking the elephant charge might be the easy way out....Actually I would use that load for hunting, but not for plinking. I think that slowing it down would help quite a bit in the recoil dept and it would help the bullet to hold together if you had to punch it through a shoulder ar something. I plan on using some 300 grain XTP Mag bullets under a stiff charge of Lil Gun to reach 2000 fps or so for a moose/bear/anything New England has to offer load.

The recoil with this gun is different from anything else that I have fired. It is hard from a bench and it pushes a lot, but the pad works and it is wide enough that it distributes recoil over a large area so that I have not noticed any bruises yet.
From the standing position or sitting position, it is pretty easy to roll with the recoil and absorb the energy without any discomfort. More of a push than a kick. It is a lightweight rifle, which is one of the biggest reasons that I love it; but nothing in life is free, so you pay with increased recoil. Tailor your loads and there is no problem. LIV

"It's nice you guys bought the .454, but all your loads duplicate .45LC. We haven't seen any data (or bruises) on .454 elephant loads... "

Here are some of my loadings that I posted here in October '02 from my Puma.


"Here are my chrono figures for my new Puma 92 .454 levergun vs. my .454 SRH:

All loads are 5 shot average, all reloads use 1.775" OAL and CCI SR MAG primers unless otherwise noted. TEMP 65F ELEVATION 5000ft

The usual disclaimer applies "please work up your own loads, what is safe in my weapon, may not be safe in yours"

Puma 92:

Magtech 260JSP - 2251fps
185 Golden Sabre 36.5gr 2400 - 2463fps (1.70")
230 RP FMJ 34.5gr 2400 - 2286fps
255 "Keith" SWC 35.0gr H110 - 2218fps
265 CPBC LBT 35.0gr H110 - 2221fps
300 XTP/MAG 32.5gr H110 - 2057fps
300 CPBC LBT 32.5gr H110 - 2158fps
335 CPBC LBT 31.0gr H110 - 1955fps
360 CPBC LBT 28.0gr H110 - 1828fps
395 CPBC LBT 24.0gr H110 - 1584fps
405 BTB LBT 25.0gr H110 - 1627fps

.45 Colt loads in the Puma:

255 "Keith" SWC 9.2gr 700X - 1280fps
255 "Keith" SWC 13.5gr 800X - 1505fps
300 XTP 22.5gr H110 - 1577fps
300 CPBC LBT 23.5gr H110 - 1675fps


I was able to shoot a 3" group @100yds using the kneeling position and no rest using the 360gr load and a 2.66" group at 100yds using the 335gr load. Overall, I would recommend this rifle for anyone who either has a ,454 or anyone who has always wanted to get a .454, but didn't because of the felt recoil on your hands. I shot more than 100 full throttle .454 loads and another 100 .45 Colt loads in one session, and today I am not in the least bit sore. I believe that this is the ultimate companion for my SRH!
-Mike"

MCNETT
Yep just order some 240Gr XTP-Mags Thursday! I want to see how good these will work. Did you just work these loads up off the cuff they seem a little stout! Where were the starting loads printed (Manual)? My 300 Gr xtp mag load was the most I could get out of mine-when I went higher the accuracy just went to ****. Every gun is different. My 300 gr WFN load peaked out at 30.3 gr W296 for about 2010 fps ,which is still plenty for what I want the gun to do! I load for accuracy first then get the most power while keeping the accuracy acceptable.

I have been playing with the 240XTP Mag with stout charges of Lil Gun underneath. That Rossi may have a new name after those loads. Rockin' Rossi sounds fitting. You are suddenly well aware that you have unleashed a whole can of whoopa$$.

Without a doubt I had them bullets moving faster than they were designed for, but I have not been able to find out that exact figure from Hornady. I figure they were doing 2350fps. I recovered a few bullets out of some hardwood and kind of expected them to have blown apart. The jacket was still attached to the core, and the mushroom was rather large. I want to hit a coyote or even a woodchuck with one of these soon just to see the intestinal mayhem, and to see the wound channel. I am going to have to soak some newspaper and use a better medium than maple to see what the bullet will do.

Still kind of curious about loading some round ball loads in LC brass for the PUMA, or some shot charges for it in 454 brass. Any ideas. Thanks, LIV

Originally posted by Gunnut45/454
Charlie Z
I guess your wondering about 350gr-405gr loads? Unfortunately I don't have any of these bullets in these weights. I was basing this on getting a 360gr bullet to run 1400fps-1493 out of a 7.5" barrel SRH so out of a 20" barrel
454 Lever gun it should come out at around 1600-1700 fps which is very close or better then some 45-70 loads.
a 405gr pistol load at 1300 fps should run about 1650 out of a 20" barrel.
Compared to most of the data I've seen for 1895's in a few load swaps the 454 measures up to and surpasses some of the loading for the 45-70 . Granted yes the 454 will be working at the top end of it's load range where as the 45-70 is not, it does compare /is in the league of the 444, 45-70 and 450. Which in my opion makes it a very good heavy game getter!!:D

Those numbers aren't near the 45/70.There are guys on Marlin Talk pushing a 405gr bullet at 2150fps out of a 22in Marlin.Those are numbers the 454 can never match.it will push a 405gr faster and with more energy than the 454 can push a 300gr.If thats in the same league.I'm missing something. Enforcer

Enforcer
Yes for those few over at the Marlins board that shoot a 22" barreled gun that maybe the case -most of those guy's are in fact shooting 16-18" Guide guns, so knock off a couple hundred FPS then we're at 1900 fps range!! So if I can push a 405 gr-haven't shot any yet- at 1700-1800 fps out of the 454 then I would definately say the 454 is in the same league as the 45-70. If those guys are pushing a 405 gr out that fast in a lever gun they are also over what the books are calling safe loads for a lever. Best loads I've seen in the books only show lever guns coming up to 2075 fps in a 20" barrel. The 454 in a lever is all virgin terratory we're just seeing the possibilities of this cartridge in a rifle format. Is it a 45-70 no, will it perform as good as 45-70 yes in many applications! It's just another great round to tinker with- just think to actually have a powerhouse pistol and rifle combination and not have to worry about grabbing the wrong box of ammo!! So far I've got a great load that works in both guns equally well and that a great plus in my book- both capable of take anything I care to shoot.
:D

Point taken .I just don't see how its so close to the 45/70,when it holds no where near the powder of the 45/70.

454 CL 1.39
45/70 CL 2.105

454 COL 1.70
45/70 COL 2.55

454 Rim Dia .512
45/70 Rim Dia .608

454 Base Dia .480
45/70 Base Dia .500

454 Bullet dia .452
45/70 Bullet dia .458

454 Neck Dia .475
45/70 Neck Dia .480

Barrel lengths for 45/70 from 16.5 to 32inches.I just don't see where the 454 has a chance against the 45/70.With out looking at the ballistics the 45/70 looks like the landslide winner in every area!Because it is.But somehow the 454 hangs tough.Good luck,and good round.
Enforcer

Enforcer. The 454 does what the 45-70 does with pressure because of it's more modern design, and the capabilities of today's metalurgy. That's the biggest difference between the two in my book. For those who want to dance on that edge with pressure, let the music begin. If you do not want to, there is no reason that you need to, stick with ol faithful. Either way, no game animal is going to know the difference when hit by either cartridge. LIV

The .454 is running at considerably higher pressure, even considering the generally-accepted limit of 40,000CUP for modern .45-70 lever guns. I think the .454 is standardized at around 65,000PSI.

So.... less powder at higher pressure, comes close to equalling more powder at lower pressure.

And you can get the .454 in a slightly smaller gun, and more rounds in the tube, and ammo that is also correct for your handgun. All minor points, perhaps, but a lot of guns have been sold for more flimsy reasons than that over the years.

I'm surprised it took someone as long as it did to get a .454 in a lever gun. I'm just now starting on a .45 Colt lever gun (Marlin 1894) and it will be interesting to see how that goes.

See my understanding is with todays 45/70 pressures are at 45,000psi (same as 450 Marlin)and the 454 is rated at only 50,000psi,not 65,000psi.The Puma or Rossi will not stand up to 65,000psi.Who are kidding?That little piece of #$%@,holding up to more pressure than the mighty Win M88,Savage M99,or Sako Finnwolf.With their ability to shoot rounds made for bolt actions and beyond the pressures of lever actions.With their one piece stocks(Win M88 Sako) for strength and better accuracy.Plus their use of the better quality spitzers for better down range ballistics and accuracy! Please!!!!

I have a 416-284 McPherson built on a Savage M99R with 350gr Barnes Solid at 2400fps-4475fpe,at 60,000psi.Thats about the max for the Savage M99,and its quoted by Frank Barnes as the strongest lever action ever made.

What you say may make sence to some that don't know any better.But has a handloader of 15years.I don't buy it.The 307win and 308win while rated at the same SAAMi limit of 52,000cup.It is understood that the 308Win is loaded to higher pressures .But that is not the reason the 308win is faster.The reason is it holds more powder,due to bullet having to be seated deeper in case of 307win to clear in action of Win M94 which can only go COL of 2.56.

Again the 284win is not faster than the 7MM-08 because its loaded to higher pressures though it is.Its faster because it holds more powder than the 7MM-08 or its parent cartridge 308Win.7MM-08 holds 52.23gr of water to base of neck,284 Win holds 64.60grs of water to base of neck.


You will not overcome the powder capacity difference between the 45/70 and the short pistol round the 454,by bumping up pressure.It just ain't going to happen.But i will discuss this with the Marlin crew and see what they say.Good Day!


Enforcer

Hi Enforcer,

Yup, 65,000PSI is the industry standard for the .454 Casull, according to the Nosler #5 manual, p628.

There is no set standard above SAAMI spec for the .45-70 (~28,000CUP per Speer #12, p402) for the stronger lever guns. However, none of my loading books go over 40,000CUP for the .45-70 in the modern Marlin. Some of the references don't even go that high. What that actually is in PSI, I don't have any idea.

A few sources goe to 50,000CUP for the Ruger #1 .45-70 and Siamese Mauser.

Note that Hodgdon's data for the .450 Marlin stops just under 43,000PSI - http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/450marln.php

Presumably the SAAMI spec for the .450 Marlin is a bit above that.

We're comparing some figures in PSI and some figures in CUP here, so it isn't exact by any means, but you can see that the .454 is running roughly 50% higher chamber pressure than the .45-70 lever gun loads. That is pretty significant!

Now the .45-70 has about twice the available powder capacity, with 300 grain bullets. Heavier bullets tilt the advantage more toward the .45-70.

As far as strength and durability, well, no one has blown up a Rossi .454 yet that I have heard of. Modern metallurgy is pretty amazing. My Taurus Ti .357 is proof that. Time will tell how they hold up.

Enforcer
Chill!! No need to blow a gasket! The 454 is just another BIG Bore thats come of age and made the jump from just a pistol round to a **** of a nice lever round. Your beloved 45-70 will still be usefull. Just that technology has taken what you got and made it better. Now even you have to admit that the good old 45-70 has improved over the last 20 year through tech changes in the guns/ammo/ powders ? If it wasn't for these changes it might have died off !! The 454 is just evolving into a very useful pistol/lever gun round.

:D

Alright,lets go down the list of corrections i must make.
First i was wrong about the pressure of the Rossi in 454.Manuals say Its 65,000psi.Oh my god thats high for a small tube fed rifle.But Ok.

Second,in the 45/70 cup and psi come out to be the same.So I said 45,000psi.You say 40,000cup which is the same in the 45/70 as 40,000psi.Ok

Third,I said the 450 Marlin was 45,000psi.Manuals say 43,000psi.OK

Fourth,i was right in all my dimensions for them both,and the 45/70 is the hands down winner in every area,but pressure.But in this case thats makes all the difference in the world.

Fifth,I don't own a 454,but I have shot 2 of my friends with 300gr bullets.It shot fine,recoil was heavy,but not as bad as one would think for such a small,light rifle.Accuracy was fair at 2in at 50yds.

Sixth,I had no idea,pressure was so high in the little Rossi.It certainly doesn't feel like a rifle built to take that kind of pressure.Its more like a Win M94.Than like a high pressure beast like the Savage M99,Sako Finnwolf,Win M88 or Browning BLR.

Seventh,It will be a handy little brush buster. Enforcer

Well, you might be right on the .450 Marlin. Load manuals generally stay a bit below the SAAMI max average pressure. On that one I'd say you were close enough to be considered correct.

Marlin is claiming a different heat treatment for the .450 Marlin guns. It could be a different alloy too, you never know (like Ruger did for the .454 SRH). Looks like the .450 is running about the same pressure as the .444 (which I *think* is about 44,000CUP) but the .450 has a bigger head size so more thrust back on the action.

It is pretty amazing performance in a lever gun that small. Just goes to show what a genius John Browning was when he came up with the '92 and the rest of his designs.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

For all the little quirks about the Rossi, I have to admit that it is one of the funnest rifles I have had in a loooonnnng time.

Being kind of stuck in the .45Colt rut, it is nice to have a rifle that will eat my handgun loads like candy and yet still have the capability to "turn up the heat" so to speak

I like the fact that it is almost as slim and trim as my Win 9422Mag while packing a serious punch. I will never get caught in a snowfield doing a death dance with a large hairy and a small rimfire agian (I hope!)

Perhaps because the Rossi does not have the fit and finish of my Marlin 45-70 I find that I have no problem banging it around in the truck, boat or aircraft. It is simple and functional and already taking on a rather "used" look.

It will move a 360grain hardcast w/gascheck at a fuzz over 1700fps. A slight gain over my .22Mag in the defense department ;*) It has proven to be a real rabbit thumper with my Colt loads of 255cast over 13grains of Blue Dot. I have several hundred 300grain cast bullets to burn up and am getting good performance with them over a dose of Unique (of which I have several pounds)

All that in a cartrage that can be loaded with carbide dies and a box of fifty takes up little room in the pack.

The simple ladder sight is getting fine tuned to several loads catered to "meat" my needs in the bush.

All in all, I am quite pleased with mine and yet would not be overwhelmed with great sorrow if it should somehow wind up in the bottom of one of our rivers or get crusty from too many weeks in a soggy tent.

Scotty

Enforcer....it takes a person with character to admit their errors; especially in a public forum such as this. From my personal standpoint I disagreed with some of your arguments, but left them alone because I did not want to argue with you. Incidentally, I also started to ignore some of your posts. Your retraction of some points has only lended you more credibility in my eyes, and I am sure others, and I for one will pay more heed to what you have to offer in the future. Thanks. LIV

Enforcer
lostinVt
Coldfingers
Have got some more data for you all. Went and bought some 240 XTP-mags and did some other loads with 255 gr SWC Cast. Chrono'd

240 XTP 35 gr W296 COL 1.745
MV 2315 Av ME 2856 1.5" at 50yds
Max load for W296 is 36.6 according to Hornady-So 2400 plus shouldn't be a problem

Got 1810 FPS out of my 7.5 In SRH with the 240's - 1791 for the 255 cast.

255 Cast SWC PB, 33 gr W296 COL 1.735
MV 2244 ME2851 2.5 at 50 yds

Both are safe in my firearms- recoil was heavy but not as bad as with 300 gr bullets- no preesure signs -brass extracted easy.

Enforcer-Now even you have to admitt 240-255 gr bullets at 2200-2400 fps put's the little old 454 right in the same woods as the 45-70 now!! Not much that's huntable can take a hit from some 45 cal at these speeds:D

Well lets see.

454 240gr 2400fps-3069fpe,Momentum:82,KO:37
444 240gr 2499fps-3329fpe,Mom:85,KO:36,Hodgdon
450 250gr 2509fps-3495fpe,Mom:89,KO:41,Hodgdon
454 255gr 2245fps-2853fpe,Mom:81,KO:36
444 250gr 2250fps-2812fpe,Mom:80,KO:36,Sierra

45/70 300gr 2424fps-3915fpe,Mom:103,KO:47,Hodgdon
450 300gr 2321fps-3589fpe,Mom:99,KO:45,Hodgdon


Yep close enough no game could tell the difference.

what primer are you using with the 300 xtp load of 296 with new starline brass and cci srp and 32 grains of 296 col of about 1.7 i get 1966.

kidcoltoutlaw

I'm using CCI SR-MAGs! Now you might get different reading as each rifle is different. Mine might be a little tigher than yours. Since your getting 1996 fps at 32 grs- which is the Max for W296 it sounds like you hit the Max for your rifle. :)

I've tried this load with Win, Hornady, and FA brass. And don't see very much varriation between them-a few FPS.:D
Though it seems that with the Win brass its a little hot-brass bulges more than I like-so they probaly will not last as long. With the FA brass I see none of this.

maybe the primers are the key to higher velocity i don't have and mag primers i will try them when i can get some.have you ever tried them with regular primers to see if there is a velocity difference,thanks,keith

kidcoltoutlaw
With W296-H110, Speer Manual #13 calls for Mag primers. So if your using the standard primers your not burning all the powder! You've probably see alot of fouling? And if you switch to Mag primers reduce or use the starting load because of the increase in pressure. I've made that mistake a couple of times and found that they didn't burn to well and the velocities were way to low. With 32 gr load you should be getting almost 2100 fps which is pretty hot for a 300 gr! :D

i even tried 33 of 296 only got 1976. i also tried it with a rem 7.5 if i rember right that is a mag primer.the col is 1.7.i will try cci mag primers as soon as i can get some.what kind or a velocity difference has anybody else had by changing the primers,thanks,keith

still the same velocity as standard primers.mine is stainless steel could that be the difference.does anybody shoot the puma in stainless,thanks,keith

kidcoltoutlaw
O.K is that stainless a 20" or a 16" barrel? If it's a 20" like my blue boy, you should be seeing about the same velocities as I'm seeing. Granted you might have a rifle that is not as tight in the chamber or rifling which could account for the low velocities! How is the accuracy at that speed? If it's shooting nice groups I would just leave it and shoot away-now if the groups suck then it's time to slug the barrel to ensure you don't have a bad rifling job or constrictions that would mess things up.:D

it's a 20 inch and the accuracy is very good.speer tells me not to push there 260 jhp over 1750 .do you think i could get by with it if i put another canulure (sp) i have a corbin tool.on the bullet to better lock the lead core to the jacket,thanks,keith

kidcoltoutlaw
O.K if Speer say's not to push any further -I wouldn't !! They're telling you, you'll see very ugly things happen with that bullet. Every bullet has it's limits-you said it's accurate so you've found the sweet spot for your rifle!:D I'm finding that I might not be able to push these 240 XTp-Mags fast enough out of my 45LC 94 Win -they are not mushrooming! In the 454 Rossi they expand very nicely!! Now those 260 speers are probably rated from 900-1600 fps for good expandtion!
Are you planning on hunting with the Speers? Should be fine for deer, but a little lite for elk and such.;)

I agree, the 260 would be light for big game. If you are going to shoot varmints and milk jugs with them, then you should be fine. I have loaded 185 Golden Sabres to insane speeds from my rifle (rated 850fps- 1200fps from Rem) and the bullet doesn't disintegrate in the bbl.
-Mike

i'm going to use them on ground hogs milk jugs and pop cans.who makes a good cast gc bullet in 300 or so that i can push to 2000 with blowing myself up with,thanks,keith

i mean without blowing myself up,thanks,keith

Casr Performance Bullet Company and Oregon Trail and of course Beartooth Bullets.
-Mike

kidcoltoutlaw
Hey I just worked up a load for plinking- How does a 230LTC Cast(Lee Mold) at 2300 FPS do ya!!

Nice load easy on the shoulder - but it has zip!!

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches)
0 2316.5 2740.3 2.37 -1.5
25 2194.4 2459.1 2.24 0.1
50 2075.4 2199.7 2.12 1.3
75 1960.2 1962.2 2.00 1.9
100 1849.1 1746.2 1.89 2.0
125 1742.5 1550.6 1.78 1.4
150 1640.5 1374.4 1.68 0.2
175 1543.4 1216.5 1.58 -1.9
200 1452.1 1076.8 1.48 -4.9

:D

sounds like it is easy on the pocket as well.i have not tried and lead bullet loads yet. i did have a feeding problem now i put a real strong crimp on it and it works fine,thanks,keith

Oh what a busy summer it has been. I have hardly been on-line but see that you guys have been busy with this thread 8*)

I am packing my pickup for a trip to the States to visit my boys and other relatives in Montana, Colorado, and Minnesota.

The "Canada Crossing" presents a problem with my normal carry habits so guess which of my firearms is making the trip? At fifty bucks a pop to transport a firearm through CaNaDa (and no handguns) I figgured the fo-fitty-fo would be usefull in an emergency of any sort while still having enough punch to dispatch a Montana Buffalo.(My son purchased a couple for the freeer but we have to go "get" them) It should be a good test for the 360 grain cast loads.

Now, if I can squeeze in some time to shoot a few Prarie Dogs I will be a happy camper.

I figgure to put about 10,000 miles on my poor ol truck and still make it home in time for Meese.

All my best,

Scotty

Nice to see you are still around. Hope you have an eventful visit. You gonna shot p-dogs with that 454? Won't be much left! Just kidding! ;-)

Have Fun!!!

Well I might be able to get out and get some more shooting in -It's been bleeming hot here for the last two weeks!!! 100 +!!! And I hate shooting in this kind of heat-reloads especially.:mad: But we've had some cool mornings so I'll just have to get out early. Been working up some plinker-yea right-loads? :rolleyes:

230gr (45ACP) cast
34 gr W296 2300 FPS!-I have to tinker with this one -accuracy just not there- I think i need to harden these some-might be to soft.

250 RN cowboy bullet cast
33 grs W296
Should be around 2100- 2200? But these are the best feeding bullets I have yet to run through this gun -feed like hot butter!!! I just hope they shoot as good!!:D :D
Since this bullet seats deeper than all my other bullets I went a grain less then the 34gr starting load posted . If I get out this weekend I'll post the chrony-accuracy results.

smoke them pd's you can't be to dead.

Now that was fun. I always wanted to shuffle some paper. This thread was tucked way back in the leverguns forum.

Now it has it's own little file.

I hope you folks don't mind.

Scotty

Is there any more input on the Puma 92 in .454 after all this time has passed. I've just ordered the new 16 inch "improved" model. I guess tghey are not available any more as they were allocated from the beginning. I sure would like to hear more reports.
Thank you.

Improved? How.

Perhaps they fond a way to keep the forestock from splitting under the recoil? That has been my only complaint.

Scotty

The other day I looked at a .454 Puma and it seemed like a very stalwart piece. However, I began to wonder how the gun would handle other hazards of .454 pressure levels besides the receiver & locking lugs holding together.

It seems to me that most other guns which handle the 50,000 - 60,000 psi loads have special provisions for venting gas in the event of a casehead failure. Since the M-92, albeit very strong, was never originally chambered for rounds likely to blow a head I'm wondering if John Moses Browning took this into consideration when drawing up the plans.

Therefore: In what direction would 50,000 - 60,000 pounds of gas go if a casehead blew in this Puma? .454 Brass may be strong enough to prevent this and maybe .45 LC is too, but if anything can go wrong it usually will for me.

I'm not saying the M-92 won't handle a casehead failure, but so far there hasn't been much mention of it one way or another. As I recall, manufacturers of high-PSI bolt guns frequently point out the lengths they have gone to regarding shrouded bolt faces, blocked firing pin channels, etc. to handle blown cases. Maybe I'm worrying about a problem that doesn't exist, but I'm no engineer.

[QUOTE=Coldfingers]Improved? How.

Perhaps they fond a way to keep the forestock from splitting under the recoil? That has been my only complaint.

Scotty
I bought my .454 through Steve Young at Steve's Guns http://www.stevesgunz.com/ServiceSG.htm
He glass beds the "wrist"--where the stock attaches. Many
people have mentioned the gun cracking there. Steve
got my gun at his price, which saved me about $60,
because I had him do the glass bedding, action job, bead
blast the stainless steel, and whatever.......
The other fix was done by the factory. The barrel band on
the older ones shot loose causing the sight picture to be
misaligned. Other than those two things I've heard nothing
but good about the .454 Puma 92. From reading around the
internet I've found people using these for "guide guns", which is sort of my use. I got the 16 inch stainless carbine because I wanted a truck, brush, woods, "fishing gun", if you know what I mean. The bear problem in some of the areas I wander in is getting kinda "scary" sometimes.
Thanks for the info.

You might want to send this to Steve Young http://www.stevesgunz.com/ServiceSG.htm
Ask him what he thinks.


The other day I looked at a .454 Puma and it seemed like a very stalwart piece. However, I began to wonder how the gun would handle other hazards of .454 pressure levels besides the receiver & locking lugs holding together.

It seems to me that most other guns which handle the 50,000 - 60,000 psi loads have special provisions for venting gas in the event of a casehead failure. Since the M-92, albeit very strong, was never originally chambered for rounds likely to blow a head I'm wondering if John Moses Browning took this into consideration when drawing up the plans.

Therefore: In what direction would 50,000 - 60,000 pounds of gas go if a casehead blew in this Puma? .454 Brass may be strong enough to prevent this and maybe .45 LC is too, but if anything can go wrong it usually will for me.

I'm not saying the M-92 won't handle a casehead failure, but so far there hasn't been much mention of it one way or another. As I recall, manufacturers of high-PSI bolt guns frequently point out the lengths they have gone to regarding shrouded bolt faces, blocked firing pin channels, etc. to handle blown cases. Maybe I'm worrying about a problem that doesn't exist, but I'm no engineer.

With the top of the action being open on a Winchester lever gun, I'm wondering how much of a problem venting gas really is. Surely a few case heads have been blown along the way with over a 100 years of production of several similar designs....

Now on a bolt gun the design of the receiver gives two pathways for the gas to head straight back to the shooter (the bolt lug cuts in the receiver), except the Savage, which has the little baffle just behind the bolt head.

The big flange on the 98 Mauser shroud is there to divert any gas / brass fragments.

Interesting question, I've never read much on how a lever gun (of any brand) is supposed to divert escaping gas.

Cliff,

I guess I never gave much consideration as to a gas leak. (perhaps like NASA and the O ring?)
Would be interesting to follow up on though for curiosity's sake. I seldom run the real heavy loads through mine but have shot enough of the 360grain BuffaloBores to know that the she handles them better than I can.

dz...While I also have a Marlin GG, I got the little Legacy for pretty much the same reasons you did.

I fiddled with the 45/70 alot but decided to keep it settled in with one very stout 405grain load.

The 454 sees lots of 45Colt level loads through it (many at CAS levels) since I use it for most everything that will fit in a stewpot or makes a mess on the porch. Being able to load it quite stout for a remote camp rifle is a bonus.

I have done a bit of tightening to it here and there using Devcon 2Ton Epoxy to strengthen the wood and fill a few loose spots.

All in all, I am very pleased with it. I may get some real sights for it someday, but my old eyes kind of like the big, fat things on there now ;*)

having no shortage of components for .45Colt, it is nice to have a rifle that will reliably utilize them.

For some reason, this little rifle has realy grown on me. It is not perfect, but I find it quite servicable. I will one day get a short stainless one.

Will check with Steve about the front sight. I have not had mine shear off (yet?)

[QUOTE=Coldfingers]Cliff,

I guess I never gave much consideration as to a gas leak. (perhaps like NASA and the O ring?)
Would be interesting to follow up on though for curiosity's sake. I seldom run the real heavy loads through mine but have shot enough of the 360grain BuffaloBores to know that the she handles them better than I can.
That bad, huh?

dz...While I also have a Marlin GG,
I want one of those, too.
I got the little Legacy for pretty much the same reasons you did.
I fiddled with the 45/70 alot but decided to keep it settled in with one very stout 405grain load.
That's a good idea. I see the .45-70 as a BIG GAME and DANGEROUS GAME gun. I certainly wouldn't varmint or predator hunt with it.
The 454 sees lots of 45Colt level loads through it (many at CAS levels) since I use it for most everything that will fit in a stewpot or makes a mess on the porch. Being able to load it quite stout for a remote camp rifle is a bonus.
I see that you have a perfect understanding of this rifle. It is a dandy multiple-use weapon, isn't it?

I have done a bit of tightening to it here and there using Devcon 2Ton Epoxy to strengthen the wood and fill a few loose spots.
All in all, I am very pleased with it. I may get some real sights for it someday, but my old eyes kind of like the big, fat things on there now ;*)
I think the new ones have different sights, or maybe it's the fact that I got a limited edition, which was allocated, and won't be available in that exact format again.

having no shortage of components for .45Colt, it is nice to have a rifle that will reliably utilize them.

For some reason, this little rifle has realy grown on me. It is not perfect, but I find it quite servicable. I will one day get a short stainless one.

Will check with Steve about the front sight. I have not had mine shear off (yet?)
Great. Thanks for all your time and consideration. I do enjoy knowing that other people see the potential for this rifle/carbine.

Gunnut Howdy-I have been trying to see if Rossi still sells or makes the .454 in a lever gun.I can't find it on there site.Do you no if it is still in production?If not,why did they discontinue it?I have been waiting to see how it holds up and gathering money also.I hope I didn't wait to long.

Best of luck.Jayco.

[QUOTE=logcutter]Gunnut Howdy-I have been trying to see if Rossi still sells or makes the .454 in a lever gun.I can't find it on there site.Do you no if it is still in production?If not,why did they discontinue it?I have been waiting to see how it holds up and gathering money also.I hope I didn't wait to long.

Best of luck.Jayco

http://www.legacysports.com/newproducts/index.htm

http://www.legacysports.com/product/specs/puma.htm

I am happy to see there are 1892 fans that like to shoot non S.A.S.S. approved loads!!!!
I looked around a bit as I seem to remember an article stating that the ROSSI 454 tends to lossen up after 5,000 to 10,000 rounds but I can't find it. Any thoughts??
I have three modern 1892's, two rifles & one carbine.( I must say I am a John Moses Browning & 1892 fan. ) Two are Rossi 357 magnums, one carbine & one rifle, the other is a Winchester/Browning/Miroku rifle in 45 Colt. After shooting the 45 Colt alot with 30,000 C.U.P. loads the 454 Casull sounds, well, interesting. The one load the gun likes is: Starline cases, CCI magnum primers, 300gr LFN bullets and a healthy dose of LIL'GUN ( see Hodgdon for data ). This load dents, dimples, craters my 1/2" steel plate @ 100 yards.
I would love to see what even modest 454 loads with 300 - 400 gr bullets would do out of a 20" barrel. Wow!!!!!

[QUOTE=DAVIDMAGNUM]I am happy to see there are 1892 fans that like to shoot non S.A.S.S. approved loads!!!!
I looked around a bit as I seem to remember an article stating that the ROSSI 454 tends to lossen up after 5,000 to 10,000 rounds

I would imagine that any high pressue load would loosen up a gun at around 10,000 rounds. However, I doubt that anyone would shoot that amount in a short length of time, and I know it would take me a long time to shoot even 5000 .454, let alone 10,000. I guess that's why there isn't much info available on it yet. The .454 is really a backup calibr for me, although I will practice with it. I imagine .45LC would be my mainstay. I'm told it can shoot .45 Schofield, and that it will take at least one more round in the 16 inch carbine with Schofield.
In order to enhance it's longevity with .454 I am having Steve Young reinforce it, among other mods, before I even get it. I prefer the looks of the 92 over the 94. Mine is a 16 inch, not a 20 inch. I want it as small as possible for my uses. What brand is your .357? I have this urge to convert a .357 mag to .357 Max, but it can't be done on the Marlin. I'd sure like to do it to a 92 rather than the Win 94, but I don't know if that's feasible. Let me know your thoughts.


but I can't find it. Any thoughts??
I have three modern 1892's, two rifles & one carbine.( I must say I am a John Moses Browning & 1892 fan. ) Two are Rossi 357 magnums, one carbine & one rifle, the other is a Winchester/Browning/Miroku rifle in 45 Colt. After shooting the 45 Colt alot with 30,000 C.U.P. loads the 454 Casull sounds, well, interesting. The one load the gun likes is: Starline cases, CCI magnum primers, 300gr LFN bullets and a healthy dose of LIL'GUN ( see Hodgdon for data ). This load dents, dimples, craters my 1/2" steel plate @ 100 yards.
I would love to see what even modest 454 loads with 300 - 400 gr bullets would do out of a 20" barrel. Wow!!!!!

dz...

I did a little shooting with mine again today. I had loaded up some cheap 255 cast over 4.5 grains of Clays (NOT universal clays) to see how they would work for small stuff. I did not use a chrony but found that I could cut a cloverleaf at 25yds. very little recoil. I passed up a nice fox that was hitting on the remains of an old roadkill moose (I know where most of those are ;*). I had neglected to renew my hunting/trapping license (but I fixed that now!)

It would have been a good situation to see what kind of fur damage I would get with cast bullets. I know my .22Mag will realy open them up on the backside. Next time perhaps.

I spent along time looking for a rifle that could be loaded through a wide spectrum. The case volume of the 45/70 makes a a bit difficult to download (although not impossible) I had to kill a moose once with the .22Mag and decided I wanted to woods loaf with something a bit more capable.

I have found that I can keep the Rossi mag tube loaded with some pretty hot stuff and just short stroke the lever to single-load my low velocity critter gitters.

Have you shot any of the 45Colt shotshells through yours yet? They are just the ticket for pesky red squirrels on the porch.

Logcutter...times a wastin...

Scotty

[QUOTE=Coldfingers]
dz
Have you shot any of the 45Colt shotshells through yours yet? They are just the ticket for pesky red squirrels on the porch.

No, my carbine is still at the gunsmith. It's nice to hear that the shotshells work on the squirrels. My friend's ranch has a small hill on it that must have a million ground squirrels. Well, maybe not that many, but a lot. I've never found shotshell to be effective on snakes, though. Snakes are actually pretty hard to kill . However, I've never tried a big caliber magnum load. Do you load your own? Would you like to share that load with me. I'd love to try it.
This has been a great thread. I'm learning a lot.
Thank you

dz...

I bet that your ground squirrels are a tad larger than our little pine squirrels and may be a mite tougher (to kill, not to eat!) I have used the commercial .45Colt shotshell loads on our squaks with good success

I have loaded a few, but am not satisfied enough to post a recipie yet.

There is a thread in the handgun ammo section that relates to shotshell loads for the .45acp. I am using that info for a starting point and capping with a .454 roundball. Bear in mind that if you top the shot load with a roundball, you will have one projectile that will go a loooooonnnnngggg ways and hit with a huge smack! Would not recomend use in the house ;*)

I will be ordering some .45colt shotshell caps from speer soon also.

I also have enjoyed this thread alot. There is good info here.

DAVID...I seem to remember one of Paco Kelly's articles stating that he had loosened up a 92 with HEAVY Colt loads. This was before Legacy came out with the .454. Mr Kelly had stated that he did not think it could/should be done. He had a small bite of crow in a followup article he did on the Legacy .454 (that one is on Gunblast.com) There are some impressive loads/velocities posted there if you care to wander over.

All my best,

Scotty

[QUOTE=Coldfingers]..................
He had a small bite of crow in a followup article he did on the Legacy .454 ...............

I do remember Paco saying what a great little package the Puma 92 would be if it does work out. A lot of people are going to eat crow on this one........Marlin, Winchester, and anyone else who can't see the "forest because of the trees". I got into a heated discussion on Marlin Talk because one yokel over there berated me something terrible for wanting a .454. He just could not understand it and was quite vociferous about it. Why would someone not be able to understand the great versatility of this gun? When I said I was going to order the 16 inch some "Cowboy" shooters warned me (nicely) that I couldn't get 10 shots in it. So, I asked around and found out .45 Schofield can be used, which allows for more rounds. It seems some 92s have to be modified a little to do that, and because they are shorter may not cycle as fast, but they will work. I can hardly wait until Steve Young finishes my gun.

[QUOTE=Coldfingers]dz...

I bet that your ground squirrels are a tad larger than our little pine squirrels and may be a mite tougher (to kill, not to eat!)
Actually, I can't get very close. I will probably have to use my Savage .17. They post lookouts and scatter at the slightest noise or disturbance.

I have used the commercial .45Colt shotshell loads on our squaks with good success
Is there one brand that is best?

I have loaded a few, but am not satisfied enough to post a recipie yet.

There is a thread in the handgun ammo section that relates to shotshell loads for the .45acp. I am using that info for a starting point and capping with a .454 roundball. Bear in mind that if you top the shot load with a roundball, you will have one projectile that will go a loooooonnnnngggg ways and hit with a huge smack! Would not recomend use in the house ;*)
Great info.
I will be ordering some .45colt shotshell caps from speer soon also.
That's good info, too.

dz..Mine sports a 20 inch barrel and had a very nice blueing job on it. The stock now sports some great dings and the blueing is wearing nicely in certain spots 8*)

I would imagine I could shoot it loose with a steady diet of heavy .454 loads. I doubt I could kill enough Grizzly, Moose, Muskoxen or Bison in my lifetime to do so though.

Now that we are getting warmer weather and some actuall daylight, I am planning to gear up to see if I can get any accuracy with a sabot round. They will have to be single loaded, but that is ok by me. The rifle lends itself well to a short stroke and a single load from the top.

Now I am having trouble waiting for you to get your rifle back from Steve...LOL
Scotty

[QUOTE=Coldfingers]dz..Mine sports a 20 inch barrel and had a very nice blueing job on it.
I wanted blue because it is more traditional, but I also wanted a 16 inch, so I took the stainless, but I'm having it bead blasted.
The stock now sports some great dings and the blueing is wearing nicely in certain spots 8*)
I would imagine I could shoot it loose with a steady diet of heavy .454 loads. I doubt I could kill enough Grizzly, Moose, Muskoxen or Bison in my lifetime to do so though.
Me neither. Even 5000 rounds of .454 is pushing it for me, so I'm not the least bit worried about it.
The rifle lends itself well to a short stroke and a single load from the top.
I hadn't even thought about it. That makes it very nice. I won't be using a scope on it. For me, this a short range carbine only.

Now I am having trouble waiting for you to get your rifle back from Steve...LOL
From what I've seen on all the sites I've visited, Steve is going to be pretty busy. Rossi has a backorder for far more rifles than they can make, and people are beginning to see the quality is good enough for most uses. However, especially with the .454 it is best to make some mods, and Steve is a specialist in Rossis. I hope that doesn't hold up my gun too much. I will keep you posted and send you a picture when I get it.
BTW, should I put a bigger loop lever on it? My hands don't fit my Marlins too well. I crank the lever with the ends of two or three fingers. With gloves that might be a problem. Just a thought.

dzrtram

"..... I prefer the looks of the 92 over the 94. Mine is a 16 inch, not a 20 inch. I want it as small as possible for my uses. What brand is your .357? I have this urge to convert a .357 mag to .357 Max, but it can't be done on the Marlin. I'd sure like to do it to a 92 rather than the Win 94, but I don't know if that's feasible. Let me know your thoughts."

Both of my 357 magnum 1892's are Rossi. The carbine came thru Interarms about ten years ago, the rifle came thru Navy Arms about ten weeks ago. Neither one will cycle ammo thru the action, let alone feed anything longer than a case @ trim to length with a 180gr Beartooth handgun bullet seated to the crimp groove.

Sad but true. The 1892 was designed for revolver like cartridges and the 1886 ate the Big, Fat, Long ones.

The idea has merrit, I have a friend who has an N.E.F. single shot in 357 maximum and it is funfunfun. Powerfull enough to raise eyebrows (edit) , but easy on the shoulder.

[QUOTE=DAVIDMAGNUM]dzrtram
The idea has merrit, I have a friend who has an N.E.F. single shot in 357 maximum and it is funfunfun. Powerfull enough to raise eyebrows (edit) , but easy on the shoulder.
Now you make me want to do that more than ever. I surf a lot of gun sites. The .357 Max seems to be making a comeback in rifles and carbines. I also have a Savage 24F (I think that's right). I wrote to Savage years ago and asked them if I could ream it to .357 max. They said only if they do it. More lawyer-proofing, I'm sure. Things have changed a lot since then. More and more people are doing it.

David,

I too have a pair of .357 Rossi 92's interestingly, one is a 16" Bbl. model from interarms, about ten years ago, the other is a 20" model about 17 years old. Either one work very nicely with the 180g WLNGC+P bullet, when loaded, as the bullet was designed in .38 special brass. On the other hand, the 185g FNGC bullet, which is designed for use in .357 brass feeds like butter in both these guns and the Marlin 1894's I shoot. The 180g bullet you describe was designed for loading exclusively in .38 special brass, so when loaded in .357 length brass, I'm not surprised that you are having feeding problems as those loads exceed normal COL by quite a margin.

Either load the 180's in .38 brass, or try the 185g FNGC loaded in .357 brass, and your feeding problems will disappear.

Give us a report!

God Bless,

[QUOTE=Marshall Stanton]David,
The 180g bullet you describe was designed for loading exclusively in .38 special brass, so when loaded in .357 length brass, I'm not surprised that you are having feeding problems as those loads exceed normal COL by quite a margin.

Either load the 180's in .38 brass, or try the 185g FNGC loaded in .357 brass, and your feeding problems will disappear.

Great information. Thanks.

Howdy Marshall

Just a clarification.
I'm not having any feeding trouble with my 1892-357 guns.
I was just saying they don't like loads much longer than.....
One weekend when I had time, bullets & cases to spare I loaded several cases at the "trim to" length with various bullets crimped at various places to create various overall lengths. The idea was to see what the guns would and would not feed. ( no powder - no primer )
I even toyed with the idea of 357 maximum cases trimmed to a length the guns would like. That length it seems is the same length Starline 357 magnum brass is shipped at.
Some day I will find a way to scratch that itch!!!

Thanks to all
alot of good comments & ideas.

Steve got my gun at his price, which saved me about $60, because I had him do the glass bedding, action job, bead blast the stainless steel, and whatever.......DZ,
Mind if I ask what this package is costing you? This sounds exactly how I'd like mine set up... Checking the gun auction sites, the 20" blues start at around $330, stainless at around $380. How does this compare to what you guys are paying for 'em? Sadly, there are none to be had locally... I would also be interested in a used one if anybody knows of any for sale.
Thanks!

Just joined Shooters Forum and i"m impressed w/ the knowledge that i have gained from you guys.(thanks). Have just got a Puma92 in .454. Its the newer 16" stainless bbl model.I love power so i know that i will fall in love w/ this weapon. Will try the LBT series of bullets first.They shoot great in my Taurus .454.I will try to use the proper protacall in posting but if i make a mistake pls forgive. Any knowledge that i gain from the more expierenced shooters/reloaders is much appreciated.----pruhdlr

[QUOTE=pruhdlr]
Have just got a Puma92 in .454. Its the newer 16" stainless bbl model.

Wow, you got the new one. If you don't mind would you mind saying where you got it and what it cost. There are some people I know that would like the 16 inch. You could be a big help.
Thanks

pruhdlr...

as long as you can resist calling us anything that ends with "head, face, or hole", I bet we will get along fine. Glad you joined us. I am very fortunate to be able to get down to Florida every couple of years to shoot in a Traditional Archery tournement, hunt hogs, and shoot Tilapia in the canals outside the Tampa area. What a neat place. I am continually amazed at the amount of wildlife in Florida. I love to hang out in a stand and just watch the critters wander by. I can go for days without dropping the string and have a great time.

Scotty

dzrtram
So how much does that 16" weight? Man a 454 in anything less then 6lb gun can't be fun! With heavy loads in my 20''
you know you've let loose some whoop a$$. But too each there own if you like the abuse go for it! I seen that Rossi has made changes to the front site? I think I might have to go with a taller one on mine- run out of rear site travel on lighter bullets. :(

Unfortonately since I started the range report thread I haven't had much time to do range and load work. Between
a job change and weather I had no oprotunities to get out.

[QUOTE=Gunnut45/454]dzrtram
So how much does that 16" weight?
Six pounds.

I think I might wear a thickly padded shooting jacket... ;) Actually, I've shot some pretty harsh loads in the past. I don't seem to be as recoil-shy as some people, but I have no plan to shoot a bunch at one time. I wanted a .45-70, but this one seems so much more versatile. I understand it's kind of hard to download a .45-70........NO, not on a computer...LOL, I mean "soft" loads. I can do much more with this gun, and it's quite a bit lighter and smaller for a truck, saddle, carry gun. Not much of a decision, really, but I still want the .45-70. I want to make a GG from the 1895 pistol grip. That reminds me; for me the pistol grip helps control recoil some, so I guess I will get even more recoil in the Puma with a straight stock.

There ae some poeple who just like getting knocked goofy ...they seem to thrive on it (although it's a good bet they were a little bit goofy to start with). Things like the old Ruger #3 with hot 45-70 handloads, 7 pound .375H&H's, 8 bore muzzle loaders...some folks get to a point were they not only tolerate that kind of recoil, they thrive on it.

Will say that in the field hunting, you'd probably not notice it...at least not unless you have time to sit and contemplate the shot for a good long while (same reason the opposing team calls a time out before the field goal).

[QUOTE=ribbonstone]
although it's a good bet they were a little bit goofy to start with...No matter what the activity there is always someone around to tell everyone that person is "goofy". Some of us thrive on it. :D
they not only tolerate that kind of recoil, they thrive on it.
Very true. I have never been a rifleman until the last few years. I was told how bad a Benelli shotgun recoiled. A friend let me shoot his. I was amazed. I felt nothing harsh at all. The a friend let me shoot his 300 Win Mag. It was a dream. From then on I was "hooked" on big caliber rifles, especially distance shooting. I love it.
Will say that in the field hunting, you'd probably not notice it..., or even at the range when concentrating on the shots.

Hi to all you Puma 454 guys--- just got back from the range.Shot a fistfull of LBT 265's over 35gr. of H110. No press signs.Shot several rds. w/ a whole mag. tube full of ammo.No bullet setbacks.Recoil seems like my 444Marlin w/ 300 grainers.My Puma is the 16" stainless mod.It has the fiberoptic sights.(2 greendots rear and 1 red dot fwd.) Even I can see them !! I got my weapon from the local gunshop after several calls to Davidsons (wholesaler). This perticular weapon is exclusive to Davidsons.Any local gunshop that deals w/ Davidsons can get you one.The stock number is: PUM68016.The 16" stainless comes in 480 Ruger also.(#PUM69016.The 265's group was 2.85" at 50 yds from the bench.This is plenty good for my swamp hog hunts.(Last year's 250 pounder was shot at 10feet.Got 3 this year already and the longest shot was 30yds.The little Puma seems to be what is needed for those close encounters w/ the big (350+)hogs that are said to be in the areas that I hunt.Any ?'s please ask. Good shootin'----pruhdlr

Also had to call Legacy and get them to explain how to get the bolt and lever out of my weapon.I probably was the only one that couldn't figure it out but if there is anyboby else out there just ask. By the way, the tech guys at Legacy are great to talk to. ----pruhdlr

[QUOTE=pruhdlr]
This perticular weapon is exclusive to Davidsons.Any local gunshop that deals w/ Davidsons can get you one.
That's where my gunsmith got mine. You really got one fast. They just got in recently. You're right, they are the only 16-inch SS 92s available as far as I know. They are a limited edition so there won't be any more from Davidson's. I can't wait until my smith has mine finished. Even though it's a limited edition I will do the mods. I care nothing about collectables. Last thing I need is a gun I can't use.

Keep us informed as time goes on so we can trace the reliability issue, although I'm not worried about it.

dzrtram:
Never even felt it while shootng at game...after, noticed my hat was off my head and there was a bit of blood tricking down my forehead, but at the shot all I noticed was fur with the front bead glued on it. But I'll still take my .375's a bit heavier than 7 1/4 pounds.

Hard to download a 45-70? Aren't there pages of Trapdoor loads in the manuals? Never found the loads tossing 285-425gr. lead bullets out at about 1100-1200fps to be abusive...never found them to shoot anywhere close to the POA when sighted in for heavier loads, but that's easily cured (are knobs on sights for a reason...count the clicks, write it down, and put the sights back where you found them afterwards).

Will put some 335gr and some 360gr through my gun tomorrow or Tues.,will let you guys know what the outcome is.(both bullets are LBT's)Also love the ability to single load rds. from the top.It's a real plus at the bench. Can't wait to hit a big nasty boar through the shoulders. The loading info that i have says that i can go up to 37.0grs of H110 w/ a 265gr bullet. I'll try that load also.(i like HOT !!)----pruhdlr

[QUOTE=ribbonstone]dzrtram:

Hard to download a 45-70? Aren't there pages of Trapdoor loads in the manuals? Never found the loads tossing 285-425gr. lead bullets out at about 1100-1200fps to be abusive...never found them to shoot anywhere close to the POA when sighted in for heavier loads,...... Yes, I think that's what "they" mean by that. Actually, I don't know what they mean, but I've read quite a bit against downloading too far. I'd just rtather use .45LC in my nice little Puma package most of the time. The .454, for me, is mainly for special needs.

[QUOTE=ribbonstone]dzrtram:
Never even felt it while shootng at game...after, noticed my hat was off my head and there was a bit of blood tricking down my forehead,.......... I can certainly believe that. Been there, done that with other rifles. :rolleyes:

Glad to see this thread is still kicking...just like my Puma. Owned it for almost a year now and I still love it. Put a new front site on it last fall...a Marbles with a large pearl bead on it for easy acquisition. Without a doubt, my Puma likes the heavier bullets better. I tried 260 grain Hornady XTP mags, and they shot OK, but the 300 grain XTP mags just stack up on top of each other at 50 yds. I have been using Lil Gun under those bullets, and I wont quote the charge right now because the book isnt in front of me...but it is safe and is all I want to use.

I think that I am going to start playing around with sabots this spring to see what happens. I am still intersted in shot loads, or even multiple projectile (roundball) loads if anyone has any proven recipes.

That little 92 action is smooth as butter, and besides the crack in the forearm I have got no complaints or issues with the way it is holding up with one year of use. Im thinking about getting a .357 mag later this spring just so that the 454 has a little brother to keep it company.

Have fun and be safe. LIV

LIV...

Glad to see that YOU are still kicking around.

Ribbonstone...I have accumulated a number of "soft" loads for the 45-70 over the years. With certain powders, a fella could get by without using a filler. A Williams reciever sight made resetting easy enough.

I think that what atttracted me to the .454 was the bullet diameter issue, use of carbide dies, and case capacity. At the root of the problem lies the lure of the .45Colt. I blame it all on the S&W Mtn.Gun!!!
I have NOT gotten rid of the Marlin GG nor have I any intentions of doing so.

The idea of a light little '92 carbine in a big bore powerful round has appeal...even if the ballistics could be matched by downloading a larger round, still have to carry the larger launcher.

Recoil is inversely proportional to weight, so youn pay for the light gun with more kick...but for hunting, doubt it will be a big problem. Shoot 99.5% of our shots at targets, so recoil is a factor in practice....but it's like a car, there is a variable pedal on the floor for a reason, other wise we'd just use an on/off switch.

Herd someone say something ref.OAL of the .454"s for feeding into the Puma. I am using Starline brass trimed to 1.385 and LBT bullets. The LBT's are the 335gr and the 360gr hard cast. My OAL's are: 335gr=1.765" and 360gr=1.795". I have had no feeding problems so far. I can load up the mag and cycle the action as fast as possible and it feeds w/ no hang ups.-----pruhdlr

Yea you can download a 45-70 but you'd still be burning alot more powder then in the 454 Casull. The 454 is alot of power in a smaller package. The 454 is very much like a LC you can go from mild to wild and it will take anything that the good old 45-70 can take. It's just another "Big Bore" chioce for those who love big holes in game and hunt toothy critters that bite back! Plus it makes a great companion with the Revolver! :D

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/gacker1143/gregshuntingfirearms/

with 296 and a 300 xtp.don't do it any more only got 10 fps more than i did from max.not worth it,thanks,keith

Put some LBT 335 WLNGC's through my 16" 454 Puma the other day. Somebody said that the gun should/would like heaver bullets better. They were right. It shot into a one ragged hole group at 50yds that measured 1.65" (5 shots,well rested) That's minute of hog. Will try the 360's in a couple of days.This time will try to remember the chrono. ( Had a touch of C.R.S. )---KEEP LOW AND IN THE SHADOWS---pruhdlr

[QUOTE=pruhdlr]Put some LBT 335 WLNGC's through my 16" 454 Puma the other day. Somebody said that the gun should/would like heaver bullets better.......

I've heard that a lot. Thanks for the info. It's good to know.

Has any one tried the heavier cast bullets in their Puma 454 yet? I have used some Hornady 300 grain XTP's, but am interested in some heavy metal if you know what I mean. Something about an ounce or so of lead that peaks my interest.

Any coments of firelapping or hand lapping are also appreciated. Been thinking about trying that out before I start playing with the lead. For the naysayers...I havent killed my Puma 454 yet, but it is **** fun trying. LIV

[How accurate were the Hornadys? Does Garrett or Buffalo Bore have anything you would be interested in? My 92 is still at the gunsmith, so I don't know much yet. Please keep us posted as to what all you've tried. How many rounds have you put through it so far?





Has any one tried the heavier cast bullets in their Puma 454 yet? I have used some Hornady 300 grain XTP's, but am interested in some heavy metal if you know what I mean. Something about an ounce or so of lead that peaks my interest.

Any coments of firelapping or hand lapping are also appreciated. Been thinking about trying that out before I start playing with the lead. For the naysayers...I havent killed my Puma 454 yet, but it is **** fun trying. LIV

I have probably put about 1000 rounds through it so far. Not all of them were 454 pressure levels...probably 25% were, but the rest were Colt levels. I dont get to shoot as much as I want to...but hey, who does? My Puma eally likes the 300 grain XTP mag over a pretty stiff charge of Lil Gun. I have no reason to move away from the XTP, as it is quite accurate, other than I am in the mood to try something different just to say I did.
I have found that the heavier bullets in my Puma are the most accurate, and that is one reason that I am leaning towards a heavier than 300 grain bullet. Let us know how yours shoots when you get it back from the smith...Take it easy...LIV

lostinVt
I'm thinking the same thing -I'm still waiting for Lee to come out with a 325-360 gr mold for the 454/45LC!! Hint Hint LEE!!! So for now mine will eat 300 gr XTP/WFNGC cast! Though there isn't much these can't handle around here.

Buffalo Bore has a Casull loading with a 360grain LBT type. They are attention getters at both ends.

I have since found a similar bullet at a local castors (with gas check) and am gettng similar results from my LSI lever and handloads.

Coldfingers, How accurate were the 360 grain cast rounds from your Puma? I gotta imagine that they will wake you up on one end and put you to sleep on the other.

I am still wondering if anyone has any experiece with the bore lapping. I am thinking about using the products offered here and am looking for some feedback if anyone has tried it. Thanks. LIV

Would you please link me up with the information on bore lapping?
Thank you

Coldfingers, How accurate were the 360 grain cast rounds from your Puma? I gotta imagine that they will wake you up on one end and put you to sleep on the other.

I am still wondering if anyone has any experiece with the bore lapping. I am thinking about using the products offered here and am looking for some feedback if anyone has tried it. Thanks. LIV

Would you please link me up with the information on bore lapping?
Thank you

LIV

Two recommendations:
1. buy the Beartooth Tech Manual, a very good bargin that will answer all you questions on lapping and offers other valuable information.

2. Firelapping has been discussed many times and suggest you use the search capabilities to find some of those threads.

Dan

dz...BuffaloBores 360 grain Casulls were very accurate in my rifle. I was so impressed that I found a similar bullet from a local castor and, after some "investigation" with a bullet puller, concocted some of my own. H110 and a Factory Crimp Die, some Mag primers and NEW brass along with a little Duct Tape to keep my glasses on my face and I was making big boy noises.

They are, ummmm..."invigorating" to shoot from the little lever. They seem to lay a pretty good spanking on things downrange too!

dzrtram,


To answer your questions, I'm currently putting together an accurizing article, for the model 92's, specifically the Rossi-made versions, regardless of the names stamped on them. Among other work done to the rifles, the single most significant improvement in accuracy came from firelapping the barrels of three separate guns, two .357's and one .44 mag. You'll find constrictions under the rear sight dovetail, where the front barrel-band screw is undercut in the bottom side of the barrel, and under the rollstamp warnings on the left-side of the barrel near the receiver. These constrictions will be more pronounced on the larger caliber guns, due to the thinner barrel wall. Once those constrictions were lapped out, and the machining marks in the barrels smoothed and eased to some degree, the accuracy these rifles turned in was stunning, to say the least.

I did some other do-it-yourself type work that will be detailed in the article, to truly make these little leverguns astonishing shooters.

I beleive that another forum member, Wilgo, also recently lapped a .45LC model 92 as well, and posted something on the forums concerning that project. You might look for it as well.

In short, yes, lapping can and does make a remarkable difference in the potential accuracy of these fine little lever action rifles.

Hope to finish the article soon and get it online.

God bless,

they get after they shoot it like how in the he11 can you have that much power in something that small.its at the top of the list as a fun gun.i do have to put a very hard crimp on it to get it to feed right with a speer 260 grain jhp.where can i get another barrel ban at bugger mine up when i took it off to adjust the front sight with my sight pusher,thanks,keith

I cant wait to read Marshall's article on the Rossi 92's. Be interested in looking at the improvement in accuracy before and after lapping...as well as some of the other modifications that were done. I sure do love that little gun...LIV

Just an update, after more than 2,500rds of Casull loads (300gr, 335gr, 360gr, 395gr, and 405gr) and 3,000rds. of heavy colt (300gr), this rifle is still tight and shoots great.
-Mike

I'm currently putting together an accurizing article, for the model 92's, specifically the Rossi-made versions, regardless of the names stamped on them.
Marshall,
You're killing those of us waiting on that article ;) ... How about giving us a tidbit, like what was the nominal bore diameter and/or twist rate of the 45LC you did?

of the big reasons i took a chance and got the 454 rifle .i love it now and it's good to hear it's holding up well ,thanks,keith

I agree with SHOOT! Im like a kid at Christmas....just a hint...anything. Thanks. LIV

Here's a recent target shot with the Rossi 454 at 50 yrds!

I really don't think lapping mine will help much :D

Load was 240 XTP-Mags at 2315 fps! Factory sites :D

The other holes are a 250 XTP load with Unique that wasn't that accurate.

Well... since it looks like Marshall is too busy casting to finish that article ;) , I thought I'd post a couple of links to some sites dealing with accurizing and slickening up the '92s.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/chapter23.htm
http://www.cascity.com/cgi-bin/news/print.pl?article=10
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/RossiDis.html
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/rossi.htm
http://www.marauder13.homestead.com/files/Rossitune.htm
http://www.urban-armory.com/diagrams/rossi92.htm
Anybody got any more?
PS: Anybody know where get a steel replacement for that cheesy yellow mag follower?

Hi everyone, I just found this Forum and I'm loving it. Anyway, I had a few questions about the Puma M92 in 454. I just put one of these on layaway and will pick it up in two weeks. I just stumbled across it at my local gun store. It is the Limited Edition Stainless 454 with a 16" barrel and fiber optic sights. My question is has anyone actually chronographed the velocity of some rounds out of this 16" barrel? I am just curious how much velocity it has over the typical 7.5" pistol barrel, and how much velocity it losses when compared to a 20" barrel. Also how do you guys like your 454 Puma's? Thanks for any info.

this site is loaded with post about the 454 rossi 92 we all love it.jsut do a search.i would but i tore a calf muscle pushing my atv the other day and i can only set up so long because the pain gets to me,thanks,keith

briankmagby
You'd probably loose 80-100 FPS in a 16" vs a 20"
So based on that and my loads you get about 1900 fps with 300gr / 2200 fps with 240's ! So you would gain about 300 fps over the 7.5" pistol.

briankmagby
You'd probably loose 80-100 FPS in a 16" vs a 20"
So based on that and my loads you get about 1900 fps with 300gr / 2200 fps with 240's ! So you would gain about 300 fps over the 7.5" pistol.

Thanks for the reply, so your saying that I will get about 1900 fps with the 300gr and 2200 fps with the 240gr out of my 16" barrel? Thats pretty good for a 16" barrel. I think I will buy one with a 20" barrel as well.

Thansk again,
Brian

Anyone have any good reduced loads for the 454 rifle for plinking? Is it safe to use 45 colt load data? I would like a real accurate target load that is pleasant to shoot, maybe something around 1,000-1,200 fps. Is this possible and accurate?
Thanks.

I have had a Puma 92,16",SS,454 for about 3 months now and I LOVE IT. It shoots best w/ heaver bullets.(300gr and over) I personally will sacrafice a few FPS for the 16"bbl. I will use it for the big and ill tempered south Fla. hogs in a few months. I can get 3" and under at 50yds. w/ ANY LOAD and ANY BULLET.(and with not so good eyesight) I will probably use the 335 or the 360gr. bullets from LBT. These shoot 2-2.5" all day w/ H110.I respectfully suggest that if your groups are 3" at 50yds. that is all you'll need to kill whatever this weapon was designed to kill. I will also add that this weapon will kill it very quickly w/ power to spare. Go ahead,use your .45-70's and your .444's at 100yds.+, but grab the 454 if your gonna be shootin' things that will fight back or could become hard to kill at close to EXTREMELY close range.( I've killed hogs at 10 FEET)----GOOD SHOOTIN'---pruhdlr

Got a "few" rounds through my 16" SS Puma 92 now. It still shoots great. Especially with bullets that are 300gr. and over. Will still shoot under 3" at 50 yds. Just for grins I shot it from the bench(very well rested) at 25yds. the other day at the range. My group was just under a inch!! Thats with the origional fiber optic open sights. Just wanted to see what the gun would do without shaky ole me.---GOOD SHOOTIN'---pruhdlr

Does anybody make an adjustable sight for the 454 rossi or even a scope mount it shoots great but i don't see as good as i would like to. Just would use the scope for load work then take it back off i think . The open sight would be ok but i have to hold to the right to get it to shoot on target still it shoots great. I do wish i could get the col just right or crimp or the chamfer of the case. Something keeps it from feed my loads just right the factory Magtech 260JSP feeds great what is the col for it thanks,keith

Does anybody make an adjustable sight for the 454 rossi or even a scope mount it shoots great but i don't see as good as i would like to. Just would use the scope for load work then take it back off i think . The open sight would be ok but i have to hold to the right to get it to shoot on target still it shoots great. I do wish i could get the col just right or crimp or the chamfer of the case. Something keeps it from feed my loads just right the factory Magtech 260JSP feeds great what is the col for it thanks,keith
Check here (http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=1900z92%20PUMA&MC)

Check here (http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=1900z92%20PUMA&MC)
has anybody tried it will it hold the zero thanks,keith

has anybody tried it will it hold the zero thanks,keith
what bullet shape will feed the best in the rossi 92 454 thanks,keith

Well, I'm on my third edition of this wonderful little Trapper.

My first one had an oversized chamber and I was separating cases with Win Supreme Partition .454 like crazy. There being no replacement barrels for the gun, I turned to Davidsons, the distributor. They replaced it immediately and cheerfully.

The replacement came home with me, I loaded it up, and it wouldn't cycle a thing... jam, jam, jam. So another call to Davidsons, another immediate replacement, and cheerfully I might add! Go Davidsons!

Now on the third edition, it feeds and fires just great. But I'm still getting a tendency for separation with that box of Winchester Supreme Partition 454. That stuff is REALLY hot... moves the 260 gr, bullet at 2274 fps and kicks like a mule. I'm going to send the rest of the box back to Winchester. I prefer the tamer loads and (mostly) warm .45 Colt loads anyway.

Legacy/Rossi '92 Ltd. 16" Trapper - .454 Casull
http://www.legendportraits.com/Images/Puma454.jpg

Anyway I really LOVE this rifle, in spite of the problems I had with the first two versions of it and the fact that the front section of the forearm has now split. Reeally cheap crap stock cutting... the inside of the forestock looks like a drunken monkey carved it out with a butter knife... shreads all over the place.

Love the ventilated butt pad, the front loading port, the hi-viz sights, the .45 Colt capability, and the .454 capability for those rare times when I want something really hot. For me, this is mostly a nice 92 Trapper to shoot my "warmer" .45 Colt rounds through. Very solid feel. Excellent feel to the action, nice trigger. GREAT rifle (in spite of Rossi's spotty quality control). A definite keeper for me!

Has anyone put a B-Square Scope mount on their 454 yet? Just wondering how it came out, what it looked like and how the eye relief was. Thanks, LIV

Is the 454 Puma still hold up to heavy loads ?

kidcoltoutlaw
Got probably 500+ through mine and it still as tight as the day I bought it! Biggest bullet through mine has been 325 gr at 28gr W296 for about 1900 fps a real thumper! But very accurate! As you can see from the posts above some are not as good as others ,but I don't know of any gun made that hasn't had one or two that didn't shoot or feed properly! For the most part folks that own one love it. :D

300 gr WFNGC over 13.5 gr Unique runs about 1700 Fps pleasant to shoot ,but still has plenty of power, very accurate.

What bullets feed the best and at what COL. I shoot the xtp hp 300 but I have to put a crimp on it that is super heavy. I think it needs a polishing job. I see lots of brass shavings around the extractor area.

I shoot a lot of 300 xtp/hp 296 31.4 grains and 260 speer hp 296 35.5 grains. It looks like im getting two cracks in the Butt stock. Very fine at this point. Does M and M still work on the guns ?

kidcoltoutlaw
Hornady makes a die set that has the proper tool to crimp 454 round -yes it has to be a heavy crimp other wise you could get set back and thats not good with the 454 pressures!!