There's about a bajillion 'bullet casting' sites areound the internet, none of them looked like great places to go for this issue. Here we go, and thanks for your patience.

The Noob (me) buys a .452 6-cavity Lee mold 'cause I want to cast some bullets for handloading .45 ACP. On order right now is a Lub-a-Matic with a .452" sizer.

Oh...jumped in a little quick, eh!

Cast up about 650 okay-looking bullets today...not a dern one of them over .450". Bet this has been covered before, but, what are the options. A $1,000 in swaging equipment would be wonderful, but can't see how that would help given the bullets are cast with conventional lube grooves, rather than tumble lube grooves. My point being that even if I did have a mighty fine swaging press and dies, I assume I'd seriously spoil the lube grooves.

Only thing I can think of is to size 'n lube them using a .450" sizer, throw the mold away and try to think things through better next time.

This is for IDPA shooting so I'm not even convinced the bullets actually have to engage the rifling to hit my target, that's why I'm thinking just shoot the dern things and call it a lesson learned. There were several other lessons learned today, too. Leather welding gloves aren't all that great for doing a run of 600 bullets. An oxy-acetylene torch melts lead one helluva lot faster than a propane camp stove, and bullet-making isn't any where near as fun as shooting.

Thanks for any help, even though I'm not sure my sorry butt deserves any!

Are you getting good fill out? All the corners should be sharp and square.

If the mould really is undersized, send it back to Lee. They guarantee their mould size.

There is a process that is known as "Mold Beagling" that might be the ticket.

What alloy are you using? What temperature was your alloy?

If you add a linotype type of metal to your lead mix, the bullets will cast larger.

Also, bullets that contain antimony should grow a little over time. They won't grow .002" though.

You might have to beagle your mold.

Mold beagling: http://ktsammo.250x.com/castboolits/cst3.html

Did you buy it new? If you bought it new, I would call the manufacturer and ask them if they will cut you a new one. If you beagle your mold, I can guarantee the mold company will axe your warranty.

Bongo,

Welcome to the forum. Rules are to join in, have fun, and be polite. Other rules are in the General forum.

You simply should not be getting bullets that small. Just to cover the bases, what did you measure them with and do they fall through your .452 sizing die? I ask because some of the inexpensive calipers can be off a couple thousandths and the electronic ones can get funny when the batteries get low.

If you are using a common alloy like wheelweights and they are too small, then you really so have a mold gaging problem at the factory. Lee should make good on that. Fellow board moderator Ranch Dog has a business based on molds of his design made by Lee and he is talking about giving it up because Lee keeps delivering molds that are not to his drawing specs. Sounds to me like they've got a new operator at the mold shop or something? It's just interesting that he's having this problem and now you report it, too? I've never had a problem with their molds, but the newest ones I have are a couple of years old.

Finally, as to shooting those undersize bullets, I wouldn't. Nothing puts lead deposits in a bore faster than an undersize lead bullet. Depending how hard your alloy is, you might be able to bump the bullets up in your sizer, though?

I no sooner posted than I realized my calipers could be crap. I'll mike some drill bits or some ground, hardened dowel rod I have that I know is good. Wish I had thought of that before posting.

The bullets are actually looking good, with complete fills except when there's operator error. The lead is about 90-95% commercial jacketed handgun bullet lead...in fact I'd say 60% or more is .45 ACP FMJ lead. The rest is maybe 5% commercial cast lead bullets. At first I thought it was low-density and fairly hard, but then I weighed between 10 and 25 bullets at a time I got a calculated bullet weight of 255-256 gr, and it's a 255 gr mold. So, whatever the composition, it's close to what Lee used I guess.

The battery in my calipers is long past 'almost dead' so let me take care of that, measure some reference stock in the shop and go from there.

The lead cores of jacketed bullets is fairly soft because it has to be soft enough to be swaged into the jacket cups for forming. You may benefit from adding, say, a pound of lead-free plumbing solder to every twenty pounds of that alloy.

I don't trust calipers for bullet or slug measurements. Too easy to deflect the jaws, too easy to be off a thousandth, and too little resolution (never better than 5 ten thousandths). I like to use an OD thimble micrometer, whether digital or Vernier scale, that reads at least ten thousandths resolution (0.0001"). They can be had in good enough quality for shooter's needs for less than $20. Here's one on sale for $14 (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=510-2202&PMPXNO=8915769&PARTPG=INLMK32). The micrometer lets you genuinely "mic" the bullet, rather than just "calip" it.

When your Lube-a-matic comes in, just use the sizing die as a gauge and see if the cast bullets fall through it?

You could always slug your barrel with one of these bullets to see how it actually fits. If you coat the bullet with a marker pen, and then gently drive it through your barrel, you would be able to see if the bullet is engaged by the rifling, and the marker pen will allow you to see if bullet reaches the bottom of the grooves. In the end, it doesn't matter what the diameter is if the bullet fills the bore.

Ah, very good point regarding the actual diameter of the bullet vs. the diameter it needs to be.

So, just because it's a slow morning and there's plenty of coffee, I grabbed 15 bullets and measured each of them with both calipers (new battery) and a set of Brown & Sharpe 0.0-0.5" micrometers I didn't even know I had. These are the ones that has the 1/10 thousandth vernier on the barrel, but I made no attempt to read these bullets to that accuracy.

Caliper Measurements

Average of the smallest diameters read: 449.9
Average of the largest diameters read: 452.5
Overall average of all measurements: 451.2

Micrometer Measurements

Average of the smallest diameters read: 450.9
Average of the largest diameters read: 453.2
Overall average of all measurements: 452.1

That is about as consistent a .001" bias between the two instruments as I could imagine getting, considering I'm trying to read a narrow band on a soft lead bullet.

So, Brown & Sharpe micrometers my daddy gave me, or a set of cheap Chinese electronic calipers from Harbor Frieght--what's it gonna be? :)

I'm going to say the bullet average diameter is .4521", not worry the standard deviation, and call it good enough for close-in, IDPA game-playing. Another crisis averted!

I also took the suggestion and jammed one of 'em through the barrel, with the minimum amount of persuasion I could get away with:

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Bullet02.jpg


I think it looks great. Hard to see, but the major diameter shows a nice bit of burnishing indicating a snug fit in the barrel grooves. Seem good to you?

The only real reason for even casting bullets at all is that I've been looking all my life for an opportunity to use the word 'obturate'.

Give some wheel weights a try, and follow Nick's advice to mic the bullets.
If you still find the bullets to be too small, send the mould back to Lee. They will fix or replace it at no charge.

One odd factor to consider. Harder lead alloy shrinks less than softer lead alloy. Lyman use to publish a chart in their manuals, showing a .45 pistol bullet casting as small as .4515" from pure lead up to .453" when cast from real Linogype (with WW's and Lyman #2 in between the two).

But it does sound like your diameter problems are fine...they're in the right area as cast.

On order right now is a Lub-a-Matic with a .452" sizer.



If you're going to lube them with a Lub-a-matic, bump them up. Sof lead, FN slugs (looks like the Lee 255gr RF slug) are easier to do anyway. When you push them down into the sizer, use a little more force on top of them to squish them larger. Be very careful, too much & you can break your sizer. But it will work for small amounts.

Also, was you mold hot, hot, hot? Once you start seeing frosty bullets, it's hot enough, then start backing off some. If you don'r have it hot enough aluminum molds with cast small. I usually run my Lees from 725 degrees to 800 degrees.

From the looks of your slug, you seem to have good rifling and the slight burnishing indicates that you have a bullet that is close to bore diameter. I would shoot them and see how accurate they are, and if they lead the barrel.

Return it to Lee for a new mold. Their molds are guaranteed to cast bullets the stated mold size up to plus .003 and minus .000. I really like the Lee six cavity molds but I have returned a couple for replacement with the exact same reason. They were replaced with nada a problem. Final thought, this is considered a factory defect and is even covered outside their normal 2 year warranty period.

I don't understand how you get any control over the force it takes to get the bullet through the sizer--isn't that completely determined by the size of the bullet relative to the size of the die?

As for mold temperature...it was probably quite a ways down from frost bullets. I got one set of frostys right after pulling the mold out of the pool of lead, but I think it probably cooled quite a bit after that. I was able to pour, then immediately swing the sprue plate and dump the bullets...didn't have to wait for any cooling period to speak of.

I guess I can send my statistics to Lee and say hey. Thanks for the tip there.

As a last ditch effort, try to tumble lube the bullets with Lee liquid Alox. It will increase their diameter slightly, which may be just enough to get you by. Good additional info can be obtained on www.castbulletassoc.org. Go to the home page and click on forum towards the bottom of the page in the left column.

I don't understand how you get any control over the force it takes to get the bullet through the sizer--isn't that completely determined by the size of the bullet relative to the size of the die?

The sizing die has an ejector pin in it. It keeps the lube from flowing out. As the nose punch pushes the boolit into the die, the boolit pushes the ejector pin down. You set a stop to control the travel of the ejector pin. This should coincide with the lube ports in the die and somewhat match the lube grooves in the boolit. Lube is applied by turning the wrench/handle, then the press handle is raised which pushes the ejector pin up along with the boolit.

Bumping up a boolit is done when you stroke the handle down to bottom the boolit and ejector pin. Additional handle force mushes the boolit out to fill the die.

Isn't the correct technical term "mooshes"? I may be confused. It may only be used by those who prefer to write "boolits". ;)

Lee will fix an off-mold, but I would check the OD's of your frosted bullets and see where they fall?

the poster has already proved the bullets are fine.no need to do aany thing.:rolleyes::D

Check your bullets to see whether they're round or not. Is the variation in diameter related to whether the measurement is taken parallel or perpendicular to the mould parting line? If they're not round coming out of the mould, the sizer will likely round them out.

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Be careful with the acetylene torch - it will vaporize lead and you can inhale it. NOT good.