Been wanting to shoot out to and past a thousand yards with
the 06. Started out wanting to use the sierra 180 sgk for target and hunting. Not planing on shooting game past maybe 450 or 500 yds
well one person say to use the 200 smk for long range target and the
200gr sgk for hunting. Looking at the BC of each bullet just about the same.
Now looking for reloading information on the 180gr sgk found out that
RL22 is out of the question all over the paper in the 06. yet the rifle will
shoot a sub with a 150 gr bullet...Still scratching my head out that..
what would like is you input on the 180 and or 200gr bullets and any load information you may have that you are willing to share........

The New Reloader 17 is a promising powder for 180 grain bullets. It looks like it will reach a fair (above 90%) load density. Winchester 760 and Ramshot Hunter are other candidates for maximum velocity with slightly compressed loads. H4350 also looks pretty good.

I'm not sure you want the 200 grain SMK for long range targets? It takes up enough volume in the case that if you drive it in a perfect gun with an idealized powder, your maximum 24" barrel velocity is around 2700 fps. The 175 grain SMK, on the other hand, can be driven to 2890 fps by that same idealized powder. As a result, it's drift at 1000 yards is about the same, but it shoots flatter. Less recoil, obviously, so it is easier to make it accurate in most guns.

200 grain SMK
2700 fps MV
1336 fps at 1000 yds
390 inch total drop
83.3 inch 10 mph deflection

175 grain SMK
2890 fps MV
1329 fps at 1000 yds
363 inch total drop
88.9 inch 10 mph deflection

Always had good luck with IMR4350 in the '06 with 180 gr Remington Bronze Points. Don't know if this bullet is still available, or not. Took several Canadian bull moose with the cartridge at ranges from 100 to 250 yds and they performed perfectly.

Think another great candidate would be H4831SC for the heavier bullets.

Please explain what your hoping to do at the entended range ? Are you shooting at a target or Hunting deer over a crop.

Would the 130 Barnes get you there ?

I don't think a 130 would have enough mass, or BC to get it out that far consistently. Plus it's coming from a 30-06 anyway. So that means it will have to leave the barrel on a 45º arc :D

Please explain what your hoping to do at the entended range ? Are you shooting at a target or Hunting deer over a crop.

Would the 130 Barnes get you there ?

Don't think a 130gr. would stay supersonic to 1,000 yards, and that will cause some difficulties and loss of accuracy when the bullet drops through the trans-sonic range. Not impossible, just adds a layer of difficulty over an already-difficult task.

Also, with more drop, means more likely the scope will run out of elevation. Would have to go to a scope base with some angle built in, most likely.

The 130 is way to light to shoot at longer distant targets.
Living in an area that is high desert and very open country
in some areas you can see a car or truck coming at over 20 miles
from the dust signs....
Been shooting a 150gr out to 500yds, talking to some of the long range shooters they say to go with a heavier bullet to go the longer distance so for elk and deer using the 180 would be a smarter idea.
Practice shooting will allow a better idea what a bullet would do at longer range game hunting.
Would learn bullet drift at different wind speeds. shooting at steep angles up hill and down hill so taking a shot at 450 or 500 yards would be taking the guess out of your shooting.........

Actually the weight isn't directly the issue to drop and wind drift. Just the ballistic coefficient matters. Weight makes ballistic coefficient higher, when all else is equal, but these days all else often is not equal. We don't just have tangent ogive designs these days.

The lightest among a group of bullets with the same ballistic coefficient always shoots flattest. It loses speed at the same rate as the others (that's what the BC tells you; how slowly a bullet loses speed), but because of its weight, it starts out faster. Since wind drift is proportional to the difference between how quickly the bullet would get to the target in a vacuum and how quickly it gets there in air and that difference depends entirely on drag, it follows that the BC also tells you how much the wind will move the bullet.

Bullet design has gotten better and tangent ogives aren't the only game in town any more. For example the 155 grain Lapua Scenar and the newer 155 grain Sierra MatchKing designed to compete with it, will actually outperform the 175 I mentioned earlier. I only favor the 175 because people generally have an easier time getting it to shoot accurately, though that depends on your barrel twist rate.

Wanting to shoot the same bullet for practice as well as hunting , looking at the BC
of the 155 bullets Lapua 155gr a BC of.508, Nosler 155gr BC of .323, Seirra 155gr BC of .504 Hornady 155gr BC of .504 and the 180gr spbt sgk has a BC of .534 3rd edition sierra manual @ 2700 fps.
The 155 would be good if just shooting targets......
Working up a load is the function of this and which powders would do
well to aid in a sub min group for target and hunting.

If you just want to plunk steel try the 168 gr. A-max. It works good out of my son's .308.....and mine....

The 155s in a .30-06 should work just fine. Palma Match Shooting (800-900-1000 yards) is done with the .308 Winchester cartridge and 155 grain bullets.
For hunting....I'd go with 175s.

Nomad,

My memory had added another tenth to the Sierra 155 grain BC's, but a check on Sierra's site shows the new one is .505 at its high end.

Sierra's web site shows the 180 grain BT SGK B.C.'s not as high as you found in the manual. They have:

.501 @ 2700 fps and above
.506 between 2700 and 1700 fps
.505 @ 1700 fps and below

It's a perfectly good choice from the standpoint of it carrying to 1000 yards, but I found it curious that it has higher BC's than their MatchKing of the same weight or than the newer 175 grain secant ogive design. I called Sierra and they said the longer long range-type boattail on that 180 grain SGK is what makes that happen. Why the MatchKings of the same weight didn't get that, he didn't know, but it's apparently an artifact of design and manufacturing history?

It's the 200 grain SGK and the 200 and 210 grain grain SMK's that have more impressive B.C. numbers, but you do give up muzzle velocity for that. As my earlier table showed, by the time you get to 1000 yards the 200 has no substantial advantage over the more readily stabilized 175 grain SMK nor even the new version 155's. More weight will carry a proportionally greater amounts of kinetic energy and momentum to the target if the terminal velocities are all the same.

200 grain SGK:

.560 @ 2600 fps and above
.552 between 2600 and 2300 fps
.555 between 2300 and 1900 fps
.560 @ 1900 fps and below

200 grain SMK

.565 @ 2100 fps and above
.560 between 2100 and 1600 fps
.560 @ 1600 fps and below

210 grain SMK

.645 @ 1800 fps and above
.630 between 1600 and 18000 fps
.600 between 1400 and 1600 fps
.530 @ 1400 fps and below


Then we come to the question of hunting and target shooting as a mix for one bullet. Sierra does not recommend MatchKings for hunting, though they certainly still kill things, as our snipers and Sqad Designated Marksmen in the sandbox proved. The question is how fast and humane a stop on game will those non-expanding hollow points produce? The MatchKings are thin-skinned and tend to come apart in game, so you have more fragments to separte from the meat.

The reason for the thin skins is it is easier to draw thin jackets uniform enough for match accuracy. The thicker jackets on hunting bullets may or may not give you adequate long range accuracy? You'd just have to try them to see? But the bullets will still be tough and probably will expand on game out pretty far. Sierra says if your can keep the terminal velocity in the 1600-1800 fps range, they should still work.

So, in the end, it may not be wise to try to get the same bullet to punch paper and meat? You've got some experimenting to do there.

Though expensive I would think the Barnes bullets would be great long range bullets-High SD/BC's! A 165 gr VLC at just over 3000 fps should get you there or move up the the 180 gr VLC.

A 165 gr VLC at just over 3000 fps should get you there or move up the the 180 gr VLC.
Can you safely push a 165 grain bullet to that velocity in a .30-06? I ask because it seemed a bit fast and so I looked in a few manuals (Lyman, Speer, Hornady, Barnes, Nosler) .
I found data for a single load (in Nosler - 63grs of RL22 = 3002 fps).
Are there other loads/propellants that will deliver?
Pete

Using a 165gr may be a choice, and as well as the 190gr bullets.
Been looking at the different bullets and there BC's some up to 540BC
now the next is where and when can we get these bullets not in
stock seems to be the norm.....

Using 180gr sgk with WLR, win cases, 56 3/4gr shot two sub min
groups at 100 yards looking to say Thanks to All for your help....

Sierra's are great for long range stuff. Glad to see you are happy. Ole Bob would be proud.

Been wanting to shoot out to and past a thousand yards with
the 06. Started out wanting to use the sierra 180 sgk for target and hunting. Not planing on shooting game past maybe 450 or 500 yds
well one person say to use the 200 smk for long range target and the
200gr sgk for hunting. Looking at the BC of each bullet just about the same.
Now looking for reloading information on the 180gr sgk found out that
RL22 is out of the question all over the paper in the 06. yet the rifle will
shoot a sub with a 150 gr bullet...Still scratching my head out that..
what would like is you input on the 180 and or 200gr bullets and any load information you may have that you are willing to share........An article in the March 1986 American Rifleman "Reloading For The M1 Rifle" covers Sierra International & Match King bullets from 150gr to 200gr with powders & fed 210m primers.I contacted the American Rifleman staff and asked if they would reprint that article for all of the current garand owners since the information and reloading data is still viable. One of our club members had a pre 1964 Win Model 70 N M 06 Rifle with peep sights.Our range backed up to a mountain so George would point out a rock up the mtn about 300 to 400 yards and ask if we could hit it.He'd hit it easily then we'd adjust out scopes and try when we succeeded he'd pick a boulder further up the face of the mtn so we practiced evenings and weekends taking long range shots reloading 06 brass from the data in the am rifleman article.It was great practise for hunting and match shooting.We eventually lost the range after a well known real estate broker said his atty didn't approve of shooting ranges.The real estate broker got in trouble for subdividing the land w/o any permits he turned it over to a nature conservancy which locked up the land forever.The WW2 vets in our gun club used to go to Sierra in Santa Fe Springs, CA & purchase their seconds by the pound which they would examine,cull out the bad bullets & weigh them before loading.They loaded 165gr &180gr sierras with imr 4831 in their 30-06 & 300 wm rifles for elk and deer hunting in Idaho,Wyoming,Montana,Utah,Arizona,Colorado,New Mexico,Oregon,Nevada & Calif.

I'll have to rummage through my Rifleman magazines and see if I can locate that one? It will be missing three important MatchKing bullets that weren't yet on the market at that time: the 175 grain .308 SMK, and the two 155 grain Palma match bullets. The 175 and the newer of the two 155's are the ones you want if you are shooting long range. The venerable 168 grain SMK tumbles beyond about 700 yards, assuming .30-06 and .308 muzzle velocities. The earlier 155 was what I ran at 200 and 300 yards when I was still using the M1A in service rifle matches.

I've only shot 1000yds with a .30 once (not counting .50 cal and 120mm) That was with M118LR out of a National Match M14 and iron sights.

7.62MM M118 L R : 175 GR BTHP MV=2600 FPS; ME= 2627 FT LBS .495 BC

The 30-06 will be able to give you 100-200fps more on the average. Another thing to consider is your rifle twist. Those that shoot 1000yds with a .30 cal like a 1:10 twist for the use of long heavy bullets. Alot of 30-06 and .308 use 1:12. My M14 and M24 sniper rifle use the 1:10. The 168gr BTHP are good for 600yds in the .308 and past that use a heavier bullet as the 168 become subsonic at 1000yds (again this is .308, 30-06 would add some more velocity). This is all the info I can share on the subject.



CD

Hmm. I thought match aromorers moved the M14 from 12" to 11" twist? Didn't know there were 10" twist barrels on any of them, but it makes sense it would be helpful at extremely low temperatures with the 175's.

Most people shoot the 200 gr sierras out of an 06 at that range. Usually around 85-90" of drop. Not the best choice but people have been doing it for a while. Not a new idea.

Have shot 06's and other 30s past 1000yds.
Looking at a hunting bullet as well as a long range
target shooting..So far very pleased with the come out.....
In a Winchester Featherweight 06 with a 180gr with RL-15
shoots a sub min. Same load in another all over the paper
Many thanks to all for your input and information.......
Hoping for a good season........Blessings....

if youhave achieved a sub min at a 1000 ,,you have found your rnd for that shot...my guess is it would go dn to the hundred an still be the most accurate rnd...just seems to me that many guns find mabe by accident the rnd it shoots the best... you in buisiness now...good luck

What is the twist rate of your 30-06, it might not like bullets over 165 grains. The heavier bullet will retain its energy longer than a lighter bullet and you would like at least 175-178 gr for 1,000+ yards but a 165 that stays stable out of your particular gun will be a better bet for you if you have a slow twist. What bullet shoots the best for you at 300, at 600, Most of the time you will find whats good at 300 isn't good for 600. Not always true of course but a factor you need to look at, BC doesn't tell the whole story.

with my 30 06 in 22 inch barrel... 165 gets me out 500 well..
i think if i was to try a thousand ..first id have to buy some equipment to know what i was dealing with.. but id also have to chunk all my work with the 165grn as wind would call for a step up to 180 grn..at least thats the impression i got ..slim

Took a nice deer at 375 yds this past weekend with the 180 smk load...
Thanks again for all the information and help.......
:):)

Nomad,

Good shooting and congrats on a clean kill.

CD

in answer to can you push 165 grn at 3000fps.. hornady already does it in thier light magnum 06 rnd..3015 i believe..

You have to buy the Hornady Light Magnum rounds to do that. They are loaded with an elastic powder that is not available to the general public and is loaded with a proprietary process that compresses it so much that if you pull a bullet from a LM round, the powder expands until it overflows the case.

There is a thread several years old on attempts to match Light Magnum velocities with the powders available to reloaders, but none were successful at the time. Since then Reloader 17 has become available and it can get close on paper (actually in QuickLOAD). Close on its heels are Ramshot Big Game and H414/760, but you have to exceed SAAMI maximum pressure to get there, which the LM loads do not. That's the magic of that odd, specially loaded powder.