The gun is a .220 Swift,load is a 52 gr Speer HP with a measured MV of 3840.

<TABLE class=content cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="95%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=contenttop align=middle bgColor=#bcae7d><TD class=contenttop>Bullet Coefficient</TD><TD class=contenttop>Sectional Density</TD><TD class=contenttop>Diameter Inches</TD><TD class=contenttop>Diameter mm</TD><TD class=contenttop>Box Count</TD></TR><TR align=middle><TD class=contenttop background=http://www.speer-bullets.com/images/nav/BGTan.gif>1 </TD><TD class=contenttop background=http://www.speer-bullets.com/images/nav/BGTan.gif>0.225</TD><TD class=contenttop background=http://www.speer-bullets.com/images/nav/BGTan.gif>0.148</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

If I want to be zeroed at 500 yards,how high above the line of sight should the bullet be at 100Yards?

Thanks!

I played with your question a little.

I predict near "on" vertically. Interesting exercise.

Cheezywan

Edit:

I did not look a the charts well. About 10.5 inches high at 100 would be "near on" at 500 me thinks?

Sorry for bad thinking.

Cheezywan

My reloading software says:

100 yds 7.38 in 3360
200 yds 13.16 in 2930
300 yds 14.86 in 2539
400 yds 11.1 in 2180
500 yds 0 in 1851

You didn't list the height of the scope above the bore, which is a pretty key piece of information.

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/ballistics_calculator.php
This will help-probably close to 7-1/2 inches. Scope height will make a big difference as will everything else, a 200 yard zero is far more practcal for a cartridge like that. here are so many variables the only way to know for sure it actually shooting it.

You didn't list the height of the scope above the bore, which is a pretty key piece of information.
Sorry about that!
It's roughly 1.75" - a Leupold 6.5-20X on a Ruger 77V.
Thanks guys for the quick replies.

BTW - what is a good ballistic program to get?
Any recommendations?

With a scope height of 1.75" your 100 sight-in would be just over 7 inches.

Thanks to all you guys for your help and your time!
I had it set at 6.0 inches high at 100,yesterday. So I'll come up 6 more clicks.

manyplews,How do you like the 77V .220 swift I had one back in 79 I thought my wife was going to cry when I got rid of it..........real sweet shooting rifle, shot the old Norma 55gr @4110fps factory ammo........

What would I need to do or why would I need a 500 yard 0.
Just curious englighten me please.:confused:

Manyplews,

Your table appears to be moved over one position, with ballistic coefficient being .225, and sectional density being .148.

That flat base bullet with its low ballistic coefficient is not going to be great at 500 yards, though your barrel twist rate may not allow you to use anything too much bigger? A mere 5 mph side wind will blow it 16 inches out there. Also, be aware that if your velocity is published for a commercial load it may not match your gun well. Those velocities are taken in SAAMI minimum dimension chambers in 24" barrels. Any other combination will give a different velocity.

Nonetheless, what I get for your numbers is that the apogee (maximum height in the trajectory) over flat land will occur at 288 yards and will be 15.5 inches high. At one hundred yards the bullet will impact 7.6 inches high. This assumes the ballistic coefficient remains constant from the start velocity of 3840 fps to the 500 yard velocity of 1790 fps. It won't. So this is all approximate, to get you somewhere "on paper" at 500, from where you will have to adjust the sight to get actual zero.

When ever I start out with a new rifle, new load, or new scope I save time and ammunition with the 20 yard sight in.
If you zero it in a that range it only takes a couple shots, left and right will be right on. Then you can dial in elevation to your desired range. It's an easy shortcut. Zeroed in at 20 yards with most game rifles (when the bullet os still rising) will in most cases be zeroed in at longer ranges at the bullet's most effective performance.

boon i read where these fellas on the sniper forums will zero thier guns out like that..
i watched a patriot arms sniper sight thing here on the net.. they made some fantastic shots... not to beat a dead horse ...but they showed some misses on objects ,,but no depiction of misses on animals..now common sense tells me they do wound some animals... so if my family is hungry id try it.. but only in that case even if i was good at it..like uncle nick says,, way to many variables to be doing live animals at 1400yrds or something...no offence poster ,,i know you just probably trying to see what can be done..to be able to take an marble size projectile an put it into a quarter size space on paper at 200 yrds,[this at 3000 ft per second] is pretty darn amazing in itself ...to me anyway..

"If I want to be zeroed at 500 yards,how high above the line of sight should ..."

As a math question, this can be computed exactly. Problem is, it seems few bullets can read the books so they do their own thing instead of following any projections we might make.

Only way to KNOW what you need to do at 100 and 500 is zero at 500 and then check to see where it hits at 100!

Manyplews,

Your table appears to be moved over one position, with ballistic coefficient being .225, and sectional density being .148.

You are correct! I hadn't noticed that.

That flat base bullet with its low ballistic coefficient is not going to be great at 500 yards, though your barrel twist rate may not allow you to use anything too much bigger? A mere 5 mph side wind will blow it 16 inches out there. Also, be aware that if your velocity is published for a commercial load it may not match your gun well. Those velocities are taken in SAAMI minimum dimension chambers in 24" barrels. Any other combination will give a different velocity.

Nonetheless, what I get for your numbers is that the apogee (maximum height in the trajectory) over flat land will occur at 288 yards and will be 15.5 inches high. At one hundred yards the bullet will impact 7.6 inches high. This assumes the ballistic coefficient remains constant from the start velocity of 3840 fps to the 500 yard velocity of 1790 fps. It won't. So this is all approximate, to get you somewhere "on paper" at 500, from where you will have to adjust the sight to get actual zero.

Our old,retired geezers group at the club had our 500 shoot Wed.
With a +7.5" zero at 100 yards,i was about 24" low at 500.I had to come up 20 clicks,which should be about +12.0" at 100 yards.
I suspect the difference between this and you fellow's calculations may be due to:
1. Speer has an optimistic BC for this bullet.It has a pretty wide cavity hollow point and is designed as a varmint bullet.
and/or
2. The chrono (Chony) results for this load are too high.(39.5 gr Win760).Most handbooks indicate it ought to be about 3650.
The only thing I won was the notoriety of being the oldest shooter entered(73).I guess the alternative is worse,but I sure can't see and shoot like I could 10 years ago.
To answer some other questions:
I like this Ruger 77V.The serial number places it as mfg'd. in 1975.Ruger
supposedly used Douglas barrels up until 1973 and then switched to Wilson.Whoever made this barrel,it's a good one.This gun has an adjustable trigger.
I also have a Remington 700 Classic in .220 Swift.It has a 24" sporter barrel,but I shot quite a few 3 shot groups under 1/2" at 100.
Both of these guns have a 1 in 14 twist,so I've never tried bullets heavier than 55 grains.If anybody has had any luck with heavier bullets,I'd be glad to hear about it.
Thanks,Guys!

As I said, about all it can do is get you on paper. Even so, I would not have expected it to be that far off. At 3650 fps I have to reduce the BC to 0.101 to get it that far afield.

Let me suggest another possibility and you can tell me if it's just not possible? What if the 500 yard target isn't actually at 500 yards? Service rifle matches are carried out at 200, 300, and 600 yards. Those distances have been standard for a long time and a lot of ranges are laid out for them. And if I move the targets out to 600 yards, the .225 BC bullet that is on at 500 is 23" low at 600 if fired at 3850 fps.

Let me add, too, if you haven't tried the 53 grain Sierra MatchKing, you should. Unless your velocity is too great for their light jackets (too much rotational acceleration) they have a genuine .225 BC and I've had excellent accuracy from them in .223 Rem and .222 Rem, both.

As I said, about all it can do is get you on paper. Even so, I would not have expected it to be that far off. At 3650 fps I have to reduce the BC to 0.101 to get it that far afield.

Let me suggest another possibility and you can tell me if it's just not possible? What if the 500 yard target isn't actually at 500 yards? Service rifle matches are carried out at 200, 300, and 600 yards. Those distances have been standard for a long time and a lot of ranges are laid out for them. And if I move the targets out to 600 yards, the .225 BC bullet that is on at 500 is 23" low at 600 if fired at 3850 fps.

Let me add, too, if you haven't tried the 53 grain Sierra MatchKing, you should. Unless your velocity is too great for their light jackets (too much rotational acceleration) they have a genuine .225 BC and I've had excellent accuracy from them in .223 Rem and .222 Rem, both.

We built this range about 6 years ago,with help from the NRA.One of the club members is a surveyor and he set the distance.We didn't have room for 600 yds,so the NRA rep approved the setup at 500 yards.
A couple members have those Bushnell Elite 1500 rangefinders that are pretty accurate.They've ranged it pretty consistly at 500-503 yards.

The day was cold(35F) and damp.There was about a 5 MPH headwind at 12 o'clock and this bullet has a big hollowpoint,as it's designed for varmints.
I had a good time and now I've got another project to play with.The 14" twist on this Ruger supposedly limits the bullet weight,but I'm going to get some heavier bullets to try.
When the weather gets back to normal(?) next week,I'll try it at 100 yards with this setting to see if it is about 12" high.
Thanks,guys,for your time and input!

Monday was a warm(65F),sunny day,with very little wind here in PA;so I took the Ruger to the range again.
I set out 5 waterfilled,gallon milk jugs at 500 yards and put up large paper targets at 500 and 300 yards.
Using a milk jug as the target and watching for the bullet splash,I ended up coming up 3 more 1/4" clicks,in order to consistently hit the jugs.There was a very slight air movement from the left and I had to hold on the left side of the jugs.
I then fired 5 shots at the 5" bull on the 500 yard paper target.holding on the center of the bull.
Then I fired 5 shots at the 2" orange bull on the 300 yard target.
Putting the rifle,rests and bags in the truck,I drove out to retrieve the targets.
The 500 group measured 3.610" and was centered about 1.5" high and 5.75" right.
The 300 yard group measured 1.863" and was centered about 22" high,directly at 12 o'clock.
I didn't fire it 100 yards,but the scope settings indicate that it should be about 12-13" high.
This is a limited test,I know.However,the apparent drop from 300 yards to 500,confirm that this 52 Gr Speer HP ballistic coefficient is pretty bad.The hollow point on these bullets(1994 vintage) is large.You can insert a #45 drill in the hollow point.I don't know if the HP on the current Speer bullet is the same,or not.
It is a great varmint bullet and will really blow up a crow.The water-filled milk jugs at 500 were really ripped up and caps had been blown off 2 of them.
This range has 30' high berms on both sides out to 300 yards but from then on the left side berm is about 10' high.The slight air movement from 9 o'clock was enough to move the group 6" right in the last 200 yards.
I think I'll get some Matchkings before next year's shoot.
Maybe I'm being too optimistic because lots of geezer's my age,wont even buy green bananas.

Caliber?...tell me a bit more.....

I have been shooting a Swift for some 25 years now. It is one of the older Savage 112J model. Bull, 26" bbl,single shot,bench type stock,etc. It shoots like a dream.

Early on, it was a long range woodchuck/coyote gun for the open fields and and clear cuts of Maine. I experimented with various bullets in the 50-53gr weights,keeping the velocities to 3850 or so. I settled on the Sierra 52gr HPBT.

When the distances start to get out over 300+yds or so,the boat tails really start to "shine". IMO, at 500yds+ you really gotta have 'em.

My weapon still wears the older 6.5-20X40 Leupold with the 1/8th minute target dot. If I had to choose a replacement scope for the weapon it would be a 6.5-20X50mm fine duplex with target turrets. I would sight the scope in for dead on at 150yds and use the turrets from there. I'd have a "cheat sheet" taped to the butt stock also. -----pruhdlr

Caliber?...tell me a bit more.....

.220 Swift

I put your muzzle velocity into QuickTARGET and found that when I reduce the ballistic coefficient to 0.1745 (.174 and .175 bracket your result numbers), and zero at 506 yards, it lands 1.5" high at 500 and 22 inches high at 300. So that's probably as close as you'll get to a useful BC for that bullet over your course of fire.

In reality, the published BC could be correct up near the muzzle and deteriorate to something much worse at long range. I say that because the 500 yard velocity reported is 1385 fps, which is at the top end of the transonic range, where drag increases rather rapidly.

At any rate, if I pretend that new BC is correct over the course, the table works out to put you 9.8" high at 100 yards, with the trajectory climbing toward an apogee of 21" at 298 yards. So 300 yards is really right about at maximum height of the trajectory.

This is a great lesson about published ballistic coefficients. You are genuinely better off to roll your own using your own gun when you can.

Nick,
Thanks for the calculation!
That BC looks like it fits the results at 300 and 500,but I'm pretty sure that the next time I shoot it at 100,with the current scope settings,it will be about 12" high.
The MV could be lower than the load book predicts,also.
Ron

Just my dos pesos, but I am a big fan of the .220 Swift. It is a Ruger #1B. It has only seen action on coyotes and jackrabbits, besides paper. I really like the Speer 52gr HP (flying shot glass), but have settled on the Sierra Blitzking, 50 or 55 gr. They have been outstanding in terms of accuracy and consistency. They have accounted for many a jackrabbit, with several past a surveyed 600 yd marker. "Splat Factor" for varminting, is, in my experience, better than the Vmax or Ballistic Tip. It "expands" reliably, even at 600 yds, and anchors the varmint nicely. BC: 55gr: .271 @ 3100fps +, .224 @ 1800 fps and below.

I shoot this bullet exclusively in my heavy .223 as well as my Swift. My varminter buddies shoot them exclusively in their .22-250s. Everybody likes'em.

Regards,
Schuter

Ron,

The difference in real trajectory at 100 is not a total surprise since, as I suggested, the BC is changing with velocity. The problem is the shape of your bullet doesn't match that of the standard projectile used to determine the SAAMI-adopted G1 drag function that the published BC's and most trajectory programs are figured with respect to. You may have noticed that match bullets (for which accurate trajectory tables are perceived by some to matter more) will often have several BC's listed, each covering a velocity range. The programs typically allow entry of the ranges and the velocity end points between which they apply. There is a tendency for the highest range to have the highest number, but it isn't always so. In any event, even that is a set of approximations. Not as exact as working out the bullet's actual drag function, nor of the next-best approximation, which is using a different standard drag function whose standard projectile better matches the shape of the one you are evaluating.

For example, I plugged your bullet into the G6 drag function, which is for a flat base bullet with a 6 caliber secant ogive. Still likely more aerodynamic than your bullet because of the secant ogive. But a slightly closer match to your bullet's shape than the G1 projectile. If I give it a G6 BC = 0.0896 and sight it to zero at 507 yards, the bullet is 1.5" high at 500 yards, 22" high at 300 yards, and 10.1" high at 100 yards. Not a lot of additional 100 yard height, but slightly closer than the G1 projectile was to your observed results. Note that the G6 BC has no relationship to the G1 BC, since it is based on a different function, so the fact the magnitude of the number is so much lower is not comparable.

An exact match will require finding your bullet's actual drag function, which can also be done. There's just no end of fun in this game.

Nick,
Thanks for the info and your time.
Hopefully,I'll get a chance to check it at 100 and 200 yards this week.


Schuter,
I have some 55 gr Sierra Blitz that I've used in my .223 but they are marked "Medium Velocity" so I've never tried them in the .220.

Ron