The following article is on the USA Today Web Site.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-10-06-civilmarriage-usat_x.htm

Just One More Reason I Cant Wait To Get To Heaven !!!

The kingdom of God is coming to earth. There is no rapture, as taught by false christendom. Sorry if that offends but the "rapture" is totally unscriptural. What most people suppose is the "rapture" (the word does not exist in the bible!) is actually only the ascention/godhood of the Elect 144,000.. and they are only going "into the air" (1st Corinthians chapter 15) in order to meet Yashua/Jesus there as He, the Warlord of God/Yahweh, marshalls His supernatural armies to defeat the kings of the earth. )Revelations 19)

The word Trinity also does not appear in the bible, so what's your point? The word "drugs" does not appear in the bible, so are they ok then?

The Holy Spirit is the working power of God (angelic ministry) and the reason most people in false christendom today think there is a rapture is that two Jesuit monks in the early 1800's plain out fabricated the concept and promoted it to a gullible world.
The trinity is a mis-interprited/mis-translation in the king James bible where the Holy Spirit is called a "him".. (mistranslation=error)
And yes, some drugs are very valuable.. aspirin is a drug for instance.. and if you needed a bullet removed from a shooting, I am willing to bet you would want pain killer drugs for the operation. I certainly would. God put all things here for a purpose, if men misuse them that's their mistake.

Prior to the early 1800's no one believed in a general "rapture". The apostles or the early church certainly did not, and no where in the bible can a general "rapture" be found.

The concept of the Trinity was well formed and accepted by many in the 300's AD. The Orthodox churches considered it heresy. The western churches embraced it. It has nothing to do with the King James translation.

You are correct in saying that the "Rapture" was not taught prior to the 1980's. It was John Darby, believing a woman in his church who prophesied about the "Rapture", who taught on the concept and introduced it to the public.

That being said, 1 Thess 4:17 is very clear thet the communuty of living believers will be "taken up" to meet the lord and those who have already died.

The Latin Vulgate uses the word "raptuse" which means "take up or catch up". This word is the actual latin root for the word rapture.

here is a good link refuting all things trinitarian: http://pub13.ezboard.com/fneedsomewisdomfrm10.showMessage?topicID=287.topic
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As to what most suppose to be a "rapture" 1st Corinthains chapter 15 is addressed SOLELY to the "Brethren" which refers to a very select royal priesthood only. Paul was one of these men, chosen by God. It is not a general promise to believers at all, in fact what most suppose is a general 'rapture" (because they have believed the lies of the judeo-christian teachers, wolves in sheep's clothing)

Is in fact, instead, a Royal militia call.. see these royal priests in Revelations 7, 14, (in 14 they are the symbolic "virgins" on mount Zion with Christ, meaning they do not follow the harlot churches, but instead are part of the government of God under Christ, "mountains" in prophecy being symbolic reference to governments) These men are part of "the armies which were in heaven" in Revelations 19. The apostles were the first of the 144,000
The number is literal, although many try to make it symbolic without any justification. they have been chosen over the last 2,000 years and my belief is that all have been chosen now and this is why the second advent and the end of the rule of man is coming fast now.

1st Corinthians 15 also says, concerning when each believer will obtain their resurrection, in verse 23: "But each one in his own order: Christ the Firstfruits, afterwards they that are Christ's at His coming".

Those that are his are the same as those found in Revelations 7, 14 and 19 and 20 and so forth.. a royal priesthood.

If one continues into Revelations 20, the second resurrection and the great white throne judgement becomes obvious..AFTER the 1,000 years of earthly kingdom under Christ and the Elect has passed. This is when other true believers will obtain eternal life, and where a celestial/universe wide kingdom will commence, still ruled over by the Elect.

I state all this in case any real seekers might somehow drop by and see it, not to create contention here on the forum.

Paul was attempting to console those in Thessalonian church who were worried about their loved ones in Christ who had died. To twist this in the fashion you describe ignores the historical evidence of the early church.

In regards to the 144 thousand:

REV 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.
REV 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps.
REV 14:3 And they * sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.
REV 14:4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.
REV 14:5 And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.

These are pure believers who are worthy to sing before the Lord.

All in all you seem to be subscribing to the teachings of Charles Taze Russell.

http://www.carm.net/jw/history.htm

If you can accept a belief created in the 1800's why can you not accept the concept of the rapture also created in the 1800s?

Hi AC. You posted, in part.


here is a good link refuting all things trinitarian:
......
........
I state all this in case any real seekers might somehow drop by and see it, not to create contention here on the forum.


I can only speak for myself in saying that most people seek the truth. If some of my answers seem contentious I must apologise. I pray that the Lord will guide us and show us His Truth.

In light of your interesting link to thoughts on the Trinity I would like to offer the following quotes from many of the early church fathers in the period before the Council of Nicea in 325.

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinityquotes.htm

I think we should spend more of our time encourageing believers than condeming them. We are to sow the seeds and let God take it from there. I am a Sabbath keeping Christian. I try to keep all the commandments. I usually fail. I just keep on plugging away. It is written, He that endures to the end will be saved. I wish everyone believed as I do. But, I may be incorrect in some things. Don't follow me, Follow Jesus Christ. I thank God every day for all my blessings. I daily ask forgiveness for all my sins. It is written if we ask forgiveness through Jesus Christ all our sins are erased. I have to ask at least daily. I know I fall short. None of us is perfect. I would not want to discourage a fellow believer by condiming him for the way he chooses to worship. We as believers are all a part of the body of Christ. Let's just do the best we can and pray for our all fellow believers and for the non believers. Above all keep the faith.

God bless you ALL.

Tom

Most people seek the truth, but on their own terms. If the truth disturbs them, they either ignore it or attempt to silence the messenger.

Welcome to the "disturbing trend", AC_Pilot.:-)

Most people seek the truth, but on their own terms. If the truth disturbs them, they either ignore it or attempt to silence the messenger.

Welcome to the "disturbing trend", AC_Pilot.:-)
I have a friend who was very badly discouraged by someone at another church telling him he had to believe their way completely or he would go straight to ****. He now refuses to go to any church. If he had been treated better, he may have taken the next step. He no longer wants to hear any talk about Jesus. I hope I can be a light for him that he may sometine take the right step. If and when he becomes a committed believer, I'll try to show him passages in the bible and explain how they apply to him. I will encourage him to take the next step. I would rather bring him under Christ first and then try to fine tune him than to let him be lost.
Tom

Not sure how this will go over, But Literature is the reason why we think of things today. If memory serves me correctly, in the 1600s, Milton's "Paradise Lost" first portrays Satan as having horns and a tail. And before that, Dante Alighieri's "The Divine Comedy" is what first introduces the 7 sins and **** as being a fiery inferno with multiple levels (Dante's Inferno). ****(I believe) in Greek only means GRAVE, so when people went to **** they went to the GRAVE, died. I'd imagine that since few people were able to read back in 1300s, and those that could were highly respected, fiction became truth...."If Brother John said it it has to be true."

Sorry to step on anyone's toes. I do not know the Bible as well as most in here, so I do not really know how Satan is depicted, other than once being an Angel. And I am also not sure as to the hierarchy of ****, I've seen differences in Lucifer, Satan, Beelzebub, etc as being all the same, and also completely different entities, so just goes to show how literature/fiction can change the way people believe. I'll believe what I believe, and you can believe what you believe.

-9r

It is not just literature, Niner. I blame a lot of it on "Gospel Singing". You may laugh, but think about it. The songwriter, often times, has to "stretch" to get a song to rhyme or to get a word to fit. Couple this with a false belief and you get "a soul tortured eternally in fire".

Lucifer was created from spirit. He was the most perfect of God's angelic creations. One of the areas of his expertise was and is music. You can see how this ties in with Gospel music. It serves his purpose to subvert God's message.

Ghenna was the word that is translated to mean he**. You are correct in that it means death or the grave.

God changed Lucifer's name to Satan or the Adversary. God names people and things as to what they are. There are other Biblical names that also refer to Satan.....King of Tyrus or Tyre, Molech, Baal and others.

Yours in truth,

Loader

AC pilot , I will not quibble , I will not condem I will pray for you for you are sorely misguided. disturbing trend on this forum is all to evident in this thread. Niner, Lucifer was the highest archangel in heaven. The bible says he is very beautiful to look upon. Much like the world rather ironic huh.he is called the prince of this world. ACPilot although the rapture or (gathering) word its self does not appear the desription of the dead in Christ and that of the living and remaining is dicribed in the 4th chapter of thessalonians. Read it and then try and deny it. It says will be caught up ! or in other words taken out of this world raptured. I know what I believe and I will not shame someone into trying to belive my way I simply will state the facts and let the word of God do its Job.The bible says His word will not come back to him void! AC Pilot I will pray for you.

The following article is on the USA Today Web Site.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-10-06-civilmarriage-usat_x.htm

I went and read the article in the link and have to say that I disagree on where they say "Fewer American couples who marry today see the need for religion's approval." From what I have seen and experienced they are being forced to use the services of a notary, judge or justice of the peace, etc.

In the last few years I have seen/heard of no less then 3 cases where the couples were told that since they were not both of the same religion and did not go to the ministers church, he/she would not preform the wedding, so they had to end up using a civil authority if they wanted to get married.

Michael Grace

this is my first time on this site. without meaning to be condencending, i am surprised that there is all this emphasis on the end times, the rapture, the revelation, etc.
as i have gone thru Jesus' words, it seems that he was looking for 1. when the son of man appears, will he find faith on this earth. he said he would return but otherwise was not specific. he has given us many marching orders to be about but trying to figger out his return time was not one of them.

2. matt 7, on the last day He will even get down to the final dividing line. there will be those in the Church. some will be those who learned how to do the great work of the Church -healing, casting out demons, etc - by using Jesus' name but had no personal relationship with him. according to Jesus, he will cast them out with all the rest who rejected him. the ones he will allow to stay will be those who have become his friend, have developed the relationship with Him on a daily basis.

the point to law of moses and all the laws was just to point out that NO HUMAN CAN KEEP EVEN ONE OF THEM. this is why it is fruitless and actually a sin for us to strive to keep the laws with our own power. Jesus gave only ONE law: it was 'LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU' and it is understood that HE will fill us with that love since we have no capacity to carry out even one particle of that kind of agape love.

as i said elsewhere, what if Jesus does happen to return and finds us concerned about all the laws of moses, or trying to be a 'good' person or thousands of other things that are offered to us every day to replace that important relationship with Him which he demands. i cannot conceive of the terror that we will encounter. especially those of us who have rejected just the simple offer of grace that breaks the bondage we are born into. it's the free gift of free grace. cant earn a gift. if can earn something, then are paid wages. and can never ever be a gift. Jesus wont work that way. must be a free gift that he paid for. the satan will get us off the track so we miss the Lord.

anything that gets us away from simply living right directly in the arms of Christ and letting him empower us is sin. sorry.

this is my first time on this site. without meaning to be condencending, i am surprised that there is all this emphasis on the end times, the rapture, the revelation, etc.
as i have gone thru Jesus' words, it seems that he was looking for 1. when the son of man appears, will he find faith on this earth. he said he would return but otherwise was not specific. he has given us many marching orders to be about but trying to figger out his return time was not one of them.

2. matt 7, on the last day He will even get down to the final dividing line. there will be those in the Church. some will be those who learned how to do the great work of the Church -healing, casting out demons, etc - by using Jesus' name but had no personal relationship with him. according to Jesus, he will cast them out with all the rest who rejected him. the ones he will allow to stay will be those who have become his friend, have developed the relationship with Him on a daily basis.

the point to law of moses and all the laws was just to point out that NO HUMAN CAN KEEP EVEN ONE OF THEM. this is why it is fruitless and actually a sin for us to strive to keep the laws with our own power. Jesus gave only ONE law: it was 'LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU' and it is understood that HE will fill us with that love since we have no capacity to carry out even one particle of that kind of agape love.

as i said elsewhere, what if Jesus does happen to return and finds us concerned about all the laws of moses, or trying to be a 'good' person or thousands of other things that are offered to us every day to replace that important relationship with Him which he demands. i cannot conceive of the terror that we will encounter. especially those of us who have rejected just the simple offer of grace that breaks the bondage we are born into. it's the free gift of free grace. cant earn a gift. if can earn something, then are paid wages. and can never ever be a gift. Jesus wont work that way. must be a free gift that he paid for. the satan will get us off the track so we miss the Lord.

anything that gets us away from simply living right directly in the arms of Christ and letting him empower us is sin. sorry.

Amen!!!!!!

I went and read the article in the link and have to say that I disagree on where they say "Fewer American couples who marry today see the need for religion's approval." From what I have seen and experienced they are being forced to use the services of a notary, judge or justice of the peace, etc.

In the last few years I have seen/heard of no less then 3 cases where the couples were told that since they were not both of the same religion and did not go to the ministers church, he/she would not preform the wedding, so they had to end up using a civil authority if they wanted to get married.

Michael Grace

In my case, my bride of 30 years ago was a Methodist, I was never baptised as my mother was a Catholic (convent school raised) and my father an Irish Protestant (yes, God has a sense of humor). They couldn't agree in which church I should be raised, so I was raised in neither. Yet, my wife and I both wanted a religious ceremony, as marriage is a Holy institution that requires a spiritual commitment. The solution was the Mormon Church - which after an interview of our beliefs - was more than gracious to marry us with no strings attached. Such is the quality of faith and grace that believers in God and Christ may come together beyond sectarianism to fulfill His purpose. Thus, there may be alternatives to the spiritual sterility of a civil wedding.

axlenut