I received an email in answer to one of my questions on another site. To make a long story short, he said Dillon told him never to use a die that begins with an "L" on a Dilon press. Have any of you heard that and know the reason. He did not know why. I know there has been "bad blood" between Mike Dillon and Lee for years. I'm kinda curious as to what was meant by that statement.

dzrtram, I don't know if this is the reason that was not stated for or not. I do not have a Dillon, but will some day!
I have read somewhere that Lee dies are too short to thread into the Dillon plates and have the ram reach the top of the dies. Imagine that, a 7x14 threaded die is not always a 7x14 die? I can understand with the custom or wildcat calibers, but a factory baught die, I doubt it.

I know this does not help much, but this iswhat I heard, and I don't know who from.
There are quite a few on here who use Dillon almost exclusively, they will get on this one.

John

Thanks, "Halfbreed". I'm pretty much a novice at this and I'd like to start off with as few mistakes as possible. I've had a lot of trouble with my Lee 9mm deprimer (first stage) die. It slips, I guess you'd call it. I have real trouble getting it to work well. I ordered a Lyman M Die due to it's excellent reputation. I sure hope it works. I'll call Dillon Monday and see what the truth is....I hope.
Thanks again.

Some dies do not have enough threaded body length to work in the dillon toolheads. The thread is the same, the length of the body that is actually threaded is the issue here. You need to have some of the threaded body left above the toolhead in order to use the lockrings. I have never tried to use Lee dies in my Dillons, but that could well be the reason. RCBS and Redding dies will work in the Dillon toolheads.

Hornadys work well also. I've had a lot of trouble with the Lee 9mm depriming/priming die. It slips. I tried the lock ring, or whatever you call it, to try to keep it tight, but it just won't work. I wanted to use the Lyman M Die. I guess I'd better call Dillon on Monday.

I've only had two sets of Hornady dies, I disposed of both of them. I think that they have the best bullet seating die of any brand, as far as the "standard" dies go. It's a good design. The thing that I HATED about the dies was the decapping stem. I had nothing but trouble with that setup. The eliptical expander that they use is also an excellent setup, especially on standard dies. If they would put a decapping stem in the die that can't pull out, I wouldn't hesitate to buy their dies in the future.

I like to set up a resizing die, fix the lock ring, and not have to touch it unless I have to clean the interior. The problem I was having using the dies was on a progressive press, it's quite annoying when the decapping stem is inside the resized case when you bring the handle down. I realize that frequent tightening of the lock nut would prevent it, but like I said, I don't think you should have to mess with a resize die once it's set up.

I've never used anything but the Hornady seater since I had so much troube with the Dillon. I agree with you, even from my little experience, it is the best. However, I've only used the .30-30 in a rifle caliber, but what a difference it made over the Dillon, even in the Dillon 550. Thank you for the input about the other Hornady dies. I didn't plan to use them anyway. I wanted to use the LYMAN M DIE, or at least I did until I read that not using "...anything that starts with an L " post on another site.
I guess I'll find out the "hard" way. I should have the Lyman M and Lee FCD on Monday. I'll let you know what happens. I'll call Dillon and ask them straight out what the deal is.
Thanks

Just looked at my Dillon 450 and some Lee pistol dies (9mm) and it will be v-e-r-r-r-y close... can't say for sure that the threads are too short without setting it up, but it could be. On the presses with the removable toolheads (550, 650), it will for sure be a problem if the toolheads are thicker than the press I have (the 450 did not have the removable toolhead) or even if the manufacturing tolerances were off a bit.

My RCBS .44 mag dies have about a quarter-inch more thread on the die body than the Lee dies.

The "M" die comes with several different lengths of the die body, and I can assure you that it will work fine in a Dillon as I have used one quite a bit. But... the Dillons are designed to expand case necks when they drop powder, and you have only 4 stations on the 450 / 550. So if you want to seat/crimp in separate steps, this is a problem, you don't have enough stations to add an "M" expander, as you really would want 5 stations to do everything (resize/decap, drop powder/expand, use "M" die, seat, crimp).

Can the M die replace the Dillon as the neck expander/powder die? I guess the Dillon seating die will crimp for me, but I would like to use the M die with the .30-30, if I can. If not I'll set up a non-progressive press like I planned to do anyway.
I'm thinking of a turret. There are 7 stations on the Redding turret. I don't know much about any other turret. Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks for your input. This site has been an enormous help to me. Thanks for being there.
FYI: The resize/Deprimer die (1st stage) Lee does not work well. I've had a lot of trouble with it. Probably due to my inexperience, but I can't make it stay adjust no matter how I tighten the lock ring.

for the help all of you have given me. I appreciate it very much.

Hi, Gents:
I've heard that some reloaders put the Lee lock ring under the Dillon toolhead.

As for the Hornady decapping stem, I only pulled it out once, on a nickel .30-06 case. Some extra torque fixed that, but it look so much force to pull the expander out that I ended up lubing the inside of the necks. Which was another nuisance. The solution is junking the nickel cases.

Bye
Jack

Jack, maybe that's what I should do with the 9mm Lee sizer/deprimer Lee die. It doesn't stay adjusted. Is this what you are talking about. Makes a lot of sense to me if it doesn't cause a high primer, or whatever. Thanks for the suggestion.

If you replace the Dillon expander die with the M die, you will lose your auto powder drop and your powder measure for that matter. The case expanding/belling insert in the Dillon die is what actuates the powder measure. It sounds to me like your best bet might be to resize/deprime your cases and use the M die as needed on a single stage or turret press, then run them through the Dillon to prime (no resizing die installed), drop the powder (adjust the case expanding insert to just drop the powder and provide for no case neck/mouth sizing), and seat the bullet, and crimp the bullet.

I often do a variation of this with rifle brass, especially .223 target ammo, but for different reasons than you would be. It works very well.

The Redding T-7 is a sweet press, I'm currently trying to think of a way to justify one to myself.

I looked at the differences last night and came up with that conclusion. I really like the idea of the turret for my rifle cartridges anyway. I only have three calibers, .223, .30-30, and .308. Is there a turret press with removable toolheads that lets me keep the three toolheads set up and then just remove, replace, and go to work like I can do with the Dillon? It seems to me that very few people use the Dillon. When I first started surfing all the gun sites on the web I wondered about that. I think there are several reason, and I think I know at least three. Thanks for the enormous help you've been!!!

Dzertram,
all the turret presses have additional heads, at least all the decent ones. You should be able to get two calibers in a single head because it has 7 holes in the case of the Redding and the primer arm is built into the press in that instance.

Lots of people use Dillon presses, but the obvious and main use for them is high quantity shooting. That means, more often than not, revolver and auto pistol rounds. Most of these rounds are straight walled, or nearly so, and make use of carbide dies that require no lube. There is no better way to make a ton of handgun ammo, in a reasonable amount of time, than on a progressive press. If you need large quantities of ammo, they are great and can save you quite a bit of time. You can load hangun ammo on a 550 far faster than you can shoot it. If you only need(want), say 20-100 rounds a month, you can get by just fine with a single stage or turret, and that is what most guys do for centerfire rifles.

Another turret option would be to use your Dillon 550 with the Lyman expander dies with the hollow stems and use a manual powder measure to charge your cases. Make DARN sure you charge all the cases though. You could use it as a progressive or a turret, you're the one who turns the wheel on a 550 so it's up to you.

The more I read, the more I want a Redding T-7. I finally realized why they have 7 stations. Probably mostly for bench shooters, but there are additional dies to add to the 3-die set. Besides the Lyman M die and Lee FCD, there are the competion dies, body dies, neck dies, etc. Not that I know a thing about using them, but evidentally someone does.

Most shooters would get 2, if not 3, calibers on that toolhead, plus a powder measure if they are rifle shooters. Most bolt rifles really don't require a crimp from most shooters perspective. Many shooters also don't worry about seating and crimping in two steps with handgun rounds either, so they would get two calibers on one toolhead.

I don't crimp bottleneck rifle rounds that aren't going into lever action. I will have to see if this practice works with the Rigby or not, as the recoil is quite severe in my rifle. I shoot the .223 with heavy bullets (75gr) in a service rifle, so my only option would be a Lee FCD, but the problem of the bullets coming out of the case would be of more concern than them being driven in since there is no room in the case for the bullet to be seated deeper.

While you're thinking of buying a Redding press, take a look at a competition die set for one of your rifles(308), you'll never want to buy any other type of die set again. If only you could have those die sets for $30-40! :)

You read my mind. I will try the comp. dies for the .308. My goal is to load for the .300 Win Mag. My son is getting a rifle in that caliber, and I may too. The only .223 I have right now is a Mini 14. I don't think precision shooting is a factor with that gun. However, I may get a varmint rifle or two. I would imagine the .223 should have the FCD. I do some shooting in rural areas where the neighbors are close enough to complain. I'm thinking about a .22 Hornet, .221 Fireball, or something like those. I need a caliber there for short range shooting that will drop quickly and be as quiet as possible. I'll probably crimp those too, I guess. Thanks for all the support. I realize I'm a little confused, but it's beginning to come together.

For your noise sensitive, closer range, varmint hunting you should take a look at the 17HMR. You won't load any centerfire rounds any cheaper, although they would have greater range. The accuracy of my inexpensive Savage rifle in 17HMR is plenty good (1 moa or less for 5 shots) out to 200 yards, and you don't have to reload to always have a good supply of accurate ammo on hand. You can get ammo for $8-9 box of 50 if you shop around or buy by the 500.

The vermin I've used it on where handily dispatched, and you can head shoot small game(squirrels) with it to 50yards with ease.

Well, just a though on that. I really enjoy shooting mine, when I can get it away from my wife. She has started whining that it "only" shoots inch groups, so I may have to get a CZ American to see if it will do better. :)

In your Mini-14 you will probably be best served by just shooting 55gr FMJ's with a cannelure. They are cheap and the rifles really don't seem to shoot very well no matter what bullet you put in them, compared to a AR-15 at least. There is no need for a crimp on a .223 in a varmint rifle, unless it somehow makes the load more consistent, but with the work I did in a TC Contender I never saw a need for any crimping of any kind to get groups that where well under an inch with a standard TC factory barrel. The recoil of a .223 is not sufficient to cause any bullet setback in the magazine, and I wouldn't forsee any problem with it happening during feeding from the magazine. If a .223 in a AR-15 can get slammed up the feedramp by the rapidly moving bolt and not suffer setback with just case neck tension, I can't see a problem in a bolt rifle. Opinions may vary on this topic.

I should have mentioned that this would be for coyotes, feral dogs, etc. I know some people have used the .17 on them, but I would not, and I don't think it is humane to use such a tiny bullet on a predator that size. No one is a perfect shot, especially me. I wonder how many have been wounded and run away to die or be crippled the rest of their life when shot with a .17. I know you didn't mean it for that, but I thought I'd better explain why I want a bigger caliber with a trajectory like a rainbow.

Sounds like a good job for a .357 magnum revolver or lever gun.

Well, it would be under some different circumstances. My friend has 480 acres on the Mexico border. There are a lot of feral dogs and coyotes, and they run in packs. I need a quiet, soft recoiling, semi auto rifle for fast repeat shots at running predators. So, I think I might get the .22 Johnson Spitfire (aka 5.7mm) conversion for my M1 Carbine. Right now I have my M1 setup with Burris's origianl 2X scout scope mounted forward on a B Square mount. This allows me to keep both eyes open and follow a running predator, see the group, rather than one animal, and have a full field of view. HOWEVER, I'm not sure the .22 Spitfire is any more humane on a dog-sized animal than a .17, although I think the bullet is about twice the size. I understand ammo is now available from the same people that make the barrel conversion. I don't know. I'll have to check it all out carefully. What do you think?

Have you considered the Ruger Deerfield, or an older original, .44 Magnum carbine? You have five shots that will shoot flat enough, but drop quickly, and will FLATTEN a feral dog. A high velocity 180gr load would be appropriate, I would bet with the carbines velocity you would get exit wounds you could stick your fist into, if not your arm.

Probably would be alot easier than jacking around with the spitfire, with a lot more resale if you didn't like it, and did I mention the 44 Mag from a carbine FLATTENS things.:)

This would have more recoil than a spitfire, but it's not a real kicker by any means. As far as the noise goes, I wouldn't know how to compare it to a Hornet or something like that. They are light, handy rifles though. Fun to shoot also.

The new Deerfield might be good for the dog packs, if it isn't anything like the old one, which was a piece of junk. We used to call them "Jamomatics". They were totally unreliable, that's why they discontinued them. The only thing would be cost of .44 ammo. But I do like the idea. Now I would like to hear from people who own them. I sure would like to know if there has been a big improvement or not.

dzrtram,
my dad and uncle both have the old style Rugers and they function fine so long as you keep them clean. They are fairly intolerant of dirty burning loads, so it's best to clean them after shooting, as is the case with most firearms, especially semi autos. I think a lot of the problems with those carbines came as a result of folk using cheap "practice" ammo in them, particularly the old swaged lead .44 magnum loads. The lack of power and the filth associated with those loads would have very good potential for gumming up that carbine. Not only that but you would have to really do some serious cleaning once they where leaded. Ruger cited high production cost as the reason for discontinuing these rifles.

If you go with the old or new one, you're not going to be able to use a scout scope mount very easily. A good, reasonably priced, scope for these rifles would be a 1-3 power Weaver V3. They are light, can be mounted low, used with both eyes open, and have a sufficiently heavy reticle to be used in low light or after dark with lights if that is legal where you live. It's a good piece of glass for the cash, ideally suited to this type of rifle.

The new Deerfield comes with a scope protector, so I'm pretty sure the brass must hit the scope upon ejection. I haven't heard alot about them, I don't have one, I haven't had the opportunity to shoot one, so I can't give you any first hand info on them.

As far as ammo costs, it's pretty economical and very easy to load for. There is tons of good, proven data for the 44 mag available. You can pretty well buy one powder for this round and be done with it. Bulk Remington bullets will do just fine for yotes and feral dogs, about $10/100 or less in quantity.

Sounds like a job for a Mini-30 "Ranch Rifle" and a low-powered scope. Ammo is certainly cheap, lethal to any coyoyte-sized animal, and 30rd mags are icing on the cake...

It's very tempting. I do like the idea of that gun. I wanted one when the first ones came out, but after watching all the trouble everyone was having I decided against it. It's definitely something to think about.

MIKE G. The only arguement about the .223 mini, which I have, is mainly the range. Too much of a possibility of hitting the neighbor's ranch house. NO way the .44 is going to get there. Also, Mini 14s are infamous for their inaccuracy. I have been looking into some mods for the Mini, but the cost runs up so fast that I'm into hundreds of dollars and still no guarantee of accuracy. I've read dozens of posts on several sites about Accuracy Systems and Accuracy Rifle Systems , etc. and almost no one is real happy with the results. It's a fun gun to shoot. If someone knows how to make it accurate, I'd like to hear about it. No harmonic barrel for me. It's too bulky and UGLY to the max. :(

I'm working on an order right now for dies. For the .308 and .223, does the Lyman M Die and the Lee Factory Crimp Die help on these calibers? One guy told me he saw a little improvement in accuracy with the FCD on the .308, but I know nothing about these dies with the .223

Unless you are using cast bullets in these rounds, the M die would be of little use on these calibers. The FCD die might help you in the .308, but I'd try it without first.

I wouldn't waste any money on a Mini-30 or Mini-14 as far as accurizing goes. For less money you could get a AR-15 match type rifle which will outshoot any Mini-14 or 30 any day of the week. The trigger on the AR can be made good with ease, although a bit of expense, that is not the case with a Mini-14 or 30. These rifles have their fans, but they don't hold a candle to the Colt AR platform for accuracy or variety of configurations. My Colt HBAR will print 5 shot moa, or better, groups all day long with heavy bullets and good loads.

I've received quite an education in the last few days. From what all I've read it seems the .308 might benefit from the FCD. One guy told me he noticed a slight improvement. I realize the M die is intended for cast bullets. However, I could almost swear I read somewhere that it was good for certain calibers using any ammo, but I can't remember which ones. I'll have to go back and look it up. I think I will just run everything through the Dillon and see how it comes out. First I have to finish several thousand rounds of 9mm so my daughter can practice with her CZ75 (picked it because it fit her so well and worked so easily, but that's another story). Next I have to finish a few thousand rounds of .45acp for me, then I will do the .30-30 and .308. I think, instead of getting into a whole new line of equipment I'll get one more Dillon Square Deal and dedicate it to the .45acp only. I need too much 9mm and .45 to keep changing stuff all the time. Now what the heck do I do when my .454 Puma 92 gets here and I have to load both .45 Colt and .454... :rolleyes: That's a rhetorical question. I'm just kidding, but I am going to do it some day. I just can't resist it. It will come to me already glass bedded and with an action job...maybe around Christmas :D


Unless you are using cast bullets in these rounds, the M die would be of little use on these calibers. The FCD die might help you in the .308, but I'd try it without first.

I wouldn't waste any money on a Mini-30 or Mini-14 as far as accurizing goes. For less money you could get a AR-15 match type rifle which will outshoot any Mini-14 or 30 any day of the week. The trigger on the AR can be made good with ease, although a bit of expense, that is not the case with a Mini-14 or 30. These rifles have their fans, but they don't hold a candle to the Colt AR platform for accuracy or variety of configurations. My Colt HBAR will print 5 shot moa, or better, groups all day long with heavy bullets and good loads.

If you're going to buy another Dillon, you should get another 550, it's a much better press for the extra 50-60 dollars and easier to operate and maintain. It doesn't have the auto indexing of the square deal, but I really don't consider that to be a handicap. I've had two SDB's in the past and they are a good press, but a 550 they are not. I now have no SDB's and 2 550's, works out much better.

The FCD die can actually slightly deform a bullet, so I wouldn't use it unless you're trying to cure an accuracy problem or have the need for a crimp on a bullet with no crimp groove. It's up in the air as to if it's needed or not, but I say don't take the chance unless there is a problem.

Order your toolheads and powder dies in quantity, it saves money, because you KNOW you're going to buy more guns and need to load for more calibers. The toohead stands are a nice accesory.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I just haven't noticed the price of the 550 recently. I don't look at the Dillon catalog or site too much because I can buy most anything that's not proprietary a lot cheaper elsewhere. I may get another 550. I already have an .30 Carbine toolhead set up, and a .30-30 quick change setup already to put on. I hope I remember what to do. I've only seen it done a few times, and I was watching, not doing. I'll figure it out. I've learned a lot, and everyone has probably saved me from buying a lot of unneeded stuff. I do wonder about the FCD though. It sure is popular, and I've rarely seen it criticized.

I'm working on an order right now for dies. For the .308 and .223, does the Lyman M Die and the Lee Factory Crimp Die help on these calibers? One guy told me he saw a little improvement in accuracy with the FCD on the .308, but I know nothing about these dies with the .223

The "M" dies are helpful when loading any brass cartridge case, make no mistake! Anything that helps start the bullet straighter in the case, with less effort on your part, is a good thing.

It is unfortunate that the design of the Dillon 4-holer machines makes it a pain to use the "M" die but that's life I guess.

Furthermore, with some modifications of the basic "M" design, you can almost assure yourself of getting necks expanded nearly concentric with the case. Dredge around in the tech notes for my articles on such things, if you really want to learn more.

You can get by without them for jacketed bullets, but I'd hate to live that way......

Thanks, Mike. I will look into it more. I agree with you, anything that makes it easier, better, and/or faster has got to be a good thing. I've read many articles that recommend the M die, and for a wide variety of bullets. I've read the same thing about the Lee FCD. There are just too many people who swear by that die for there not to be some truth to it. I'll search the archives. I will probably buy a separate press for the rifles. I can use the FCD on the Dillon, and probably don't need the M die as much as for rifles. Thanks again.

I hate to differ with MikeG's opinion, but it is my belief that in a progressive press environment, or any other not using a lead bullet, that a Redding competition seating die will do everything a M die will and more, in convenience and accuracy when using jacketed bullets.

The seating die ensures bench rest accuracy for bench rest shooters, and is known to do so. This is not disputed. Bench rest shooters using jacketed bullets do not use Lyman M dies by and large. The main advantage to the M die is a proper seating environment for a lead bullet. It does improve things, but will you ever notice it with a 30-30 or .308 hunting rifle? Let's face the facts, we're loading a 30-30, which is very lucky to print 2moa in MOST cases. Using a M die in favor of a good seating die, would be academic at the very best, you would probably have better results with the good seating die than you would with a M die and a standard seater. Of course you'd spend more time shooting and less reloading with a good seater than a M die, but that would be up to you, both would be best. But, after all, we are talking about a 30-30 here. The difference in accuracy would be negated completely by the extra time spent at the bench as opposed to on the shooting range. How accurate does a 200-250yard rifle need to be? Bragging rights are only valid at pizza and beer time if they don't require a micrometer to measure them in the group I shoot with.

All these tools are a great thing for the shooter, but sometimes you have to step back and look at the advantage they give you vs. the time involved with utilizing them. Most old timers, who've been there, will sit back and have a hideous laugh at us worrying about precision seating dies versus specialty neck expanding dies in the accuracy department.

If I where to load for the rounds you mention, on a progressive, or any other method where my time was of any value, I'd use a standard die set with a seperate crimp die on cartridges that require it.

Beyond that, good case prep will serve you better dividends in accuracy then a spendy seater die or specialty expander die ever will if you have a "straight" set of dies.

I usually agree with MikeG, but spending twice the time loading half the ammo in a non-bench rest situation seems like a non-advantage here. I guess we all have our own ideas of how good our ammo has to be. I like, and value, superb ammunition, but I value time at the range far more. I don't believe I'm making any compromise in any off-the- shelf rifle in accuracy this way.

Matter of priorities more than anything I guess.


I have now, officially, stepped down from my soap box.

Well, with a better seating die than the run-of-the-mill stuff, you might be right.

But I don't have any benchrest seating dies so I'll take your word for it.

I will say, using the "M" die in conjunction with a regular seating die, you will get better concentricity and that does help accuracy. Maybe not an issue with the .30-30 but definitely measureable with the .308.

Also if you have the sizing dies with the bushings that only reduce the neck the minimum amount necessary, then I can see the "M" die not being essential for accuracy.

Anyway..... good discussion.

I guess it depends on the dies you start out with. The seater in my Dillon .30-30 crushed the brass, no matter what I tried. I replaced it with a Hornady and never had another problem. I was told by someone, maybe Dillon, that the .30-30 is a little tough to load. I don't know what they meant by that, but it might be the seater. I have read elsewhere that the .30-30 is one that benefits from the M die. Well, it certainly benefited from the Hornady seater. However, the M die is a neck expander and I can't use it in a Dillon anyway, so it doesn't make any difference. I will try using the set I have in each caliber, and then replace as/if needed. I believe the 9mm is one that benefits from the FCD. Unfortunately, I have Lee dies for that caliber and have had a lot of trouble with them not holding adjustment. It was suggested I put the lock ring UNDER the toolhead. I think I will start experimenting with that caliber. Now I have to go back and re-read all my posts and replies on the FCD and see what caliber those with experience have definitely noticed a difference. I'm sure getting an education. Funny how the very same die, or whatever, that works for some seems like junk to others, even using the same press. Then there's the guy who posted in response to me and said in all the years he's used a Dillon he, or the machine, have never made a mistake or had a bad round loaded in any way. Now, where did I put that shovel?

The .308 is one of the calibers that people have reported to me as making a difference--small, but noticeable.
I don't understand the bushing sizing dies. When and where do you use them, for what calibers, and who makes them? Wow, I ask a lot of questions, don't I.

Well, with a better seating die than the run-of-the-mill stuff, you might be right.

But I don't have any benchrest seating dies so I'll take your word for it.

I will say, using the "M" die in conjunction with a regular seating die, you will get better concentricity and that does help accuracy. Maybe not an issue with the .30-30 but definitely measureable with the .308.

Also if you have the sizing dies with the bushings that only reduce the neck the minimum amount necessary, then I can see the "M" die not being essential for accuracy.

Anyway..... good discussion.

There are some sizing dies (Redding maybe, and I think Hornady as well) where you can put a bushing in them to control how much the neck of the cartridge is reduced when sized.

The reason for this is that generally most sizing dies will reduce the neck diameter much more than necessary, in order to work with every brand/variation of brass that is available.

Example, if you are loading for 0.308" bullets, then you would want the inside of the neck to be about 0.305" - 0.306" or so, which would be fairly easy to start a bullet but give some reasonable amount of neck tension.

Now, most sizing dies that I have seen will reduce the neck of a .30 cal cartridge case to about 0.300". So, to 'fix' this problem you drag the expander ball back through the neck, which would typically be about 0.306" - 0.307" (slightly over the size you want to end up because there is some springback in the brass). With a plain steel expander like most dies have, it's not only a pain, but tends to not expand the neck evenly. The neck will expand in the direction that it is thinnest. Now the case neck is no longer concentric with the case body.

Brass for say a .30-06 could be typically have a neck wall thickness of 0.012" - 0.015", so the die manufacturers have to make sure that the dies will work with the thinnest brass that you might reasonably find.

So, if you could measure your brass, and find that it's say 0.015", and you want to end up with about 0.306" inside diameter, then you do some quick math (0.306" + 0.015" + 0.015" = 0.336" then subtract 0.001" or 0.002" to account for brass spring back) and order a 0.335" or 0.334" neck sizing bushing.

Presto, now you don't have to expand case necks, brass doesn't get worked as much, etc. But.... you do have to have reasonably uniform brass for this to work, or you might have to turn case necks so all cases start out with a uniform diameter.

Or, there is a really easy route to achieve the same thing, which is to use one of the Lee Collet die sets. The collet die squeezes the case neck against a mandrel. Now, it pretty well doesn't matter what size your case necks are, they will all come out about the same diameter which is controlled by the mandrel.

Hey, you wrote an instructional manual. Thanks a bunch. I have the Hornady Series 1 2-die .308 die set. Is any die, i.e. the Lee Collet, better to use than the Hornady deprimer (1st stage) die in my Dillon 550? I will be loading .223, .30-30, and .308 at this time.

The main advantage of the Lee collet die will be no case lube necessary, and less effort/smoother operation of the progressive press. Understand that it will neck-size only.

Full-length sizing may occasionally be necessary, or if you use the same brass in several guns, almost certainly necessary.

For casual target shooting I would try to neck size for ease of loading and also to get the most life out of the brass.

OK, I think I have it: Use the Lee Collet Die until I need to full-length size, then use the Hornady. Am I remembering correctly that the seater also sizes? Do I have this correct?

No, seater does not (well should not) size the cases. If it does then you have some sort of problem. The only time the seater should touch the case at all is if you are also using it to crimp the bullet, then it should only touch the case mouth.

Ok, I finally found the instruction manual. I don't know how it stayed in such good condition over the years, but I have it straight now. Thanks a bunch.