Anyone using the Thompson Encore 50 caliber (stainless)
My groups need tightening up using the 272 gr. remington sabot.
Any help would be appreciated. I swab the bore with after each round and dry it firing a primer. Use 100 gr. pyrodex powder and 209A fed. primer. It is a magnum and will take a load of 150 pyrodex but the chrono does not show any or very little velocity increase. Only more recoil. Also anyone use the fairly new Thompson 240gr. with the 2 piece breakaway sabot
Thanx for any advice
:confused:

hey fshn,
I have a 209x50 stainless encore also, a suggestion
may ne to *not* swab between each shot with those
sabots, I have read where some get better accuracy
only wet patchng every 2-3 shots. I have shot those 252
g rem sabots, but don't eally remember what the accuracy was, but for me I would relegate them to short range work.
You might also want to shoot some full bore conicals
through that barrel after cleaning to pristine condition
for a while and then go back to the sabots and see if they group better. Mine seems a bit overbore though I haven't slugged it, just observation since my min load for
anything over 300 g seems to be 90 gr your choice of
FFg, otherwise on the bench the velocity is slow enough
that the muzzle rise on recoil throws the projectile over
the target by a foot or more. anyone else notice this?
Ihave had very good results with the Buffalo ball-ets on targets over about 80 gr of FFg, and even tightly
patched RB over 75 g of powder at 50 yds, so go figure.

hey fshn,
I have a 209x50 stainless encore also, a suggestion
may ne to *not* swab between each shot with those
sabots, I have read where some get better accuracy
only wet patchng every 2-3 shots. I have shot those 252
g rem sabots, but don't eally remember what the accuracy was, but for me I would relegate them to short range work.
You might also want to shoot some full bore conicals
through that barrel after cleaning to pristine condition
for a while and then go back to the sabots and see if they group better. Mine seems a bit overbore though I haven't slugged it, just observation since my min load for
anything over 300 g seems to be 90 gr your choice of
FFg, otherwise on the bench the velocity is slow enough
that the muzzle rise on recoil throws the projectile over
the target by a foot or more. anyone else notice this?
Ihave had very good results with the Buffalo ball-ets on targets over about 80 gr of FFg, and even tightly
patched RB over 75 g of powder at 50 yds, so go figure.





Thaanx JMX
I'll give the barrel a good scrub and burn up some 300 grain buttered conical. It is new so it may help break in the barrel a we bit.
I would like to shoot out to 200yds with this gun and I am still working up loads. The best powder I have heard is Triple Seven. Cleaner burning and more consistent. I was told that this change in powder will dramatically increase accuracy. I seem to have stuck with the pyrodex pellets for too long but they are not the answer. Next week at the range I will try the loose powder and get back with the results.
:)

fshnhnt,
I just got rid of a stainless Encore barrel I took on trade for some reloading equipment. The Triple 7 is somewhat easier to clean up than Pyrodex. Since you are shooting sabot's you're still going to have to clean pretty regularly during shooting as a result of all the plastic fouling in the barrel. My process is to use a wet patch with a citrus type cleaner and a dry patch after that. I dont' mess with snapping a cap in between but I don't sop the barrel with solvent on the wet patch either. It does seem that the 777 makes it easier to get three shots without cleaning and better accuracy than the pellets or standard Pyrodex RS.

Save the big charge loads for when you want to go home with a sore shoulder, it's about all they are good for in my experience with the Encore barrel and my Black Diamond. I was playing with Hornady Great Plains bullets in both my rifles and the accuracy was pretty good between 80-90grs of Pyrodex RS and about 80grs of 777. I didn't play around with round balls in the Encore too much, but 60grs of Pyrodex pistol powder proved to be very accurate to 100yds (as far as I shot the load at) with a regular old Hornady .490 Ball and a TC prelubed patch in the Black Diamond.

200 yards is a long way to shoot with a ML rifle if you're using iron sights. I think the big conicals will deliver more "slap down" at that distance than the lightweight handgun bullets if you master the curved trajectory.

I'm just starting to use BP since I finally laid my hands on some.

My hunting buddy and I both have Encore 50 Cal Muzzleloaders. We tried the black powder and Pyrodex. The Pyrodex shot well with 2 each 50 gr. pellets. We tried several different kinds of bullets and sabot's. We got OK groups around 2 inches at 100 yards. I then switched to 295 gr. power belts with the Pyrodex pellets and got better groups under 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards. I then switched to triple 7 pellets with the 295 gr. power belts and am shooting sub MOA at 100 yards. My buddy also switched and is shooting just a well.
The triple 7 is a lot easier to clean up after also. I can shoot 5 shots without cleaning the barrel. At 5 shots the bullet is a little harder to push into the barrel but will go in. I do a good cleaning after the 5th shot and then do another 5 shot group. Just letting you know what worked for us. Hope this helped. :)

I have had my encore now for a year and still have not figured out what it likes. I have shot pyrodex and 777 with just about every bullet out there. I have shot powerbelts, hornady xtp, maxiballs, t/c sabots three different kinds. Weights have varied from 155 gr to 285 grains, with powder loads from 50 to 150 grains and the gun will still not shoot. I may not be the best shooter but from a vise??? I have tried cleaning the barrel between shots and every three and not cleaning at all when shooting. The first shot is usually fairly good but out of an expensive muzzlelaoder I would like to get more than one good shot. T/C gave me there recommendation for a load but it still did not group better than 7" at 90 yards. The light weight bullet with 50grain pellet will keep it in a deers vital at 90 yards but that is horrible. I had a black diamond that shot great but the safety was not meant for a lefty! so I sold it, what happen to the great T/C? Does anyone have any ideas on what else I might try. I have shot lead to try to break in the barrel and have shot the gun close to 200 rounds because I am on my third box of primers. My groups are scattered one high one left one right never consistent. A buddy of mine had the same problem and reduced his powder to 40 grains FFg 777 to get accuracy to 100 yards with a T/C sabot 240gr bullet. Maybe I am asking too much but I want to push 175 yards, the Black daimond could do it. I have noticed that after shooting and without swabbing the bullet does not want to seat the last 2 inches, it needs alot of force to seat it down on the powder. I do not bounce the ramrod off of the bullet because I have seen some deformation when doing that. The QLA does not seem quite centered to the bore which does concern me. If anyone has any ideas let me know. Thanks in advance. I had ironsighter see thru mounts and switched to a weaver mount with see thru mounts. I also bought a 4-12 bushnell trophy thinking it might be the scope. I also bought the oversized hinge pin which after reading some of the posts I am taking it back out and going to try again. I have a blued 50 cal that just showed up but deer season is now and I do not want to try to switch right in the middle. Guess I might have to rely on good ole trusty Remington 1100. Update: I wentout and shot it again this morning after reading some threads and finding that others seemed to have a trend of heavy grains. I put the newest and greatest breech plug in with the old hinge pin with 120gr 777 FFFg and 180gr Hornady XTP and with four fairly quick shots they grouped under 3". They were quick because I was waiting on the sun to come up to see and then rush on to work so I could pay for my expensive habit! lol. Thanks for the info hopefully someone can gain info from my experience.

Answers for a few of your questions.
Pyrodex requires cleaning between each shot when shooting for groups. Pyrodex collects moisture so when swabbing, keep the moisture down to a minimum and make sure to dry the barrel good when you are done. I like to use flannel to clean with since it is very absorbant and will pickup the fouling quickly.

According to Sam Fadalla, the best load for target in an Encore is somewhere between 75 and 90 grains of black powder. 777 is 1.5 times more powerful than black powder so if you are shooting 100grains you are really shooting 115 to 120 grains of powder. You don't mention which grade you shoot. Some guns like FFg others prefer FFFg. Try em both.

Finally, just like modern guns, muzzleloaders need to be cleaned of lead and plastic(from sabots) on a regular basis. Hot water is good for black powder and their substitutes, but does little for plastic and lead. Try Shooter's Choice, a good brass bristle brush and a lot of elbow grease!. I brush mine 5 times every time I clean. If you have a hard time seating bullets 2 inches above the bottom...that is where most of your powder burns and where the sabot starts moving. Give it most of your attention when you clean.


strongarm