I don't know if this is the right place to post this or not but here goes. I will have to live vicariously through ya'lls hunting adventures this year since I can't afford to hunt in my own home state anymore. Something like 98% of the land is in private ownership and hunting leases have gotten to be such big business that the average guy can not afford to hunt anymore. I believe the average price is $1500 /gun on most leases and the high fence places are going for over $2,000/gun. I know of at least 15 guys that can not afford to hunt anymore and therefore, their kids are not hunting either. I am all for landowners making money but most ranches are way overpopulated with deer/hogs as is. Keep those hunting stories coming so those of us that won't be able to hunt this year can at least enjoy your adventures.

Your mssg will prob get more play in the general discussion, but I agree its harder now adays. I came from Illinois where all the good riverbottom land is leased by outfitters, but we didnt have any BLM land, you guys down there have to have some. Im sure youll have to drive a bit though.
Or marry a farmers daughter.
olyeller

Actually, Mike - There's no BLM or National Forest land in all of Texas. There IS a very limited amount of public hunting lands, but the people are thicker'n fleas on a hound dog on the parcels. Texas is privatized to the extent a person with no relatives, friends or company that owns or holds hunting leases is not going to hunt. That's why there is such an influx of Texas hunters in NM, Colo and Wyo.

Actually, Mike - There is 638,000 acres of National Forest land that includes 5 natl. forests and within these forests are 5 wilderness areas, they do include hunting ( look under USDA Forest Service). Also, TEXAS has 50 Wildlife Management Areas that total 1.2 Million acres that offer excellent hunting, there has been several B&C Bucks come out of a couple. Try www.tpwd.state.tx.us and look under hunting opportunities, you will be pleasantly surprised at all the different hunting available. By the way the 1.2 million is available year-round for a whole $48. There are also scads of great draw-hunts ( limited hunters ) for only $4.00 per entry and yes, we have a point system. I have a lease in a three deer county that I only pay $600 a year for that has an abundance of 130 and 140 class bucks and it is a whole 325 acres. I find leases all the time and would be glad to forward the info to anyone that wanted it. I leave tommorrow to take my 15yr old son on the special youth hunt that opens the 25th, gives the kids a head start. Need anymore information about TX, I will be glad to help!

TEXAN,
JB

Yeah, it can be tough, you just have to look. Get away from the big cities. Helps to start out hunting pigs and other varmits as that's much cheaper and can lead to other opportunities.

Hi 7mman, I am looking for a lease in the same range that you are paying. If you know of some and wouldn't mind emailing me, I would appreciate it. I know it is late in the year but even a place that needs management kills (does, mgmt bucks) would be acceptable. Thanks for the reply. I have done the $48 public hunts and will never do that again. I have done the draw hunts but I am looking for a year round lease to take my boys out on camping and such. They are 6 and 9 so won't be shooting but will probably sit in a stand with me on occasion. Any leads you might have would be appreciated and thanks for the input. Pistolpete

After years of satisfaction and frustration, I have decided that satisfaction is better. What it all boils down to is "What's the point? What's important?" Hey, get elk and deer if you can. That's great. But if you can't, maybe the smaller options don't have to be less satisfying unless a person thinks they are.

I came to gun ownership and an interest in hunting when I was nearing 40 and my oldest was 7. I never did become a good big game hunter, but am pretty good on squirrels and a terror to rabbits.

I wanted our three sons to learn about guns and hunting, but not so much that I was willing to drop everything else or relocate my family to concentrate on it (which is what it usually takes to get really good at anything.)

My sons and I practiced with 22 rimfires at public ranges and went squirrel hunting at wildlife management areas. We had a lot of good and interesting times together and learned a lot of good things, including responsible gun use and some hunting skills.

We hunted deer on public WMAs here in Florida and never saw the first buck. The bucks were there, but you had to be lucky or really good. I think good hunters could find a penguin in a desert. I never found a buck, much less a penguin. Looking back on those deer excursions, I think the biggest thing was I pumped our sons up too much about seeing and getting a buck. It would have been much better if I said "We don't know much about this, but we can try and see what it is like, and maybe we will even see a deer." Still we had good fellowship in the going together and camping, and we saw a lot of game and interesting things other than bucks. I think my sons youthful anticipation would have been as great if I had been lower-key about the whole thing.

It is good we went out and discovered the reality of hunting deer in our heavily populated state, and it is really good we went after small game after the big game season closed. Not only did we experience success, we enjoyed a much less pressured environment and there were far fewer hunters around.

Our sons are grown now -- the youngest left home two years ago. None of them are professional hunters or want to be. One is still pretty interested in hunting, just for the fun of it -- not for the success of it. What they have carried into the future with them is a proper understanding about ownership and use of firearms and respect for wildlife and its proper place in relationship with people. I hope they pass that on to their children -- they certainly got a better head start than I had and I am glad for that.

In every age, at every stage, men gotta do with what they've got. Buffalo Bill Cody knew that. In 1880 he was only 34 years old, but he realized the outdoors scouting and hunting life he loved and made a living at was about to end. In less than 20 years, from 1870 to 1888, the buffalo herds were reduced from uncountable millions of animals to a precise, countable number: in the United States and in zoos around the world and including an estimated 550 wild buffalo in Canada, there were a total of less than 1,100. Buffalo Bill could have gone off and just become a broken down drunk, but he did the best with what he had. He still drank a lot, by the way, but he kept going and along the way helped find some solutions for himself and his world, including helping restore the buffalo population. He never again would go out and shoot dozens of buffalo a day to feed thousands of soldiers and workers, but he found other exciting things to do.

I am as guilty as anyone of having complained about the poor legacy others have handed me in the crowded game lands, short hunting seasons, etc. But I'm beginning to understand and be more content with what I do have. I hated all my subjects in school, but have become interested in history in the last couple of decades. Among other things, I have learned that a lot of pioneer Americans didn't have any hunting restrictions on them, but that didn't matter. In a lot of places at different times, there was little or no big game: it was shot out or the land didn't support much. Annie Oakley got to be a crack shot by feeding her family on the meat she could get. It wasn't deer. Just squirrels, quail and rabbits. Getting squirrels quail and rabbits for the pot isn't the stuff that will sell issue after issue of hunting and firearms magazines, but it can obviously develop hunting and woodsman skills that can command international admiration. You may know who famous elk hunter Jim Zumbo is, but I guarantee far more people have heard about squirrel hunters Boone, Crockett and Oakley. They did with what they had and they got very, very good at it. And it all tied together in their character and love of life. And if they had never become famous, I don't believe they would have wasted much time thinking about the deer and elk not available to them. That's a good lesson for me -- what's the point? I am finding out and the satisfaction sure beats frustration.

Sincerely, your friend Dave

Dave, I've always enjoyed small-game hunting more than anything else. Less pressure and lots of good memories spending time in the woods. I'd say you did well with the kids.

Greenhorn Dave, I agree with you 100% and I would be more than happy if all we hunted was small game and birds. Our problem lies in the area of most small game seasons run concurrent with deer season and I have had several bad experiences on the very little public land available here and don't want to run that risk with my kids along. Our board members at Texas Parks and Wildlife are big ranch owners who benefit by the high fence spectacle that is taking over here.(So much for the game belonging to the state). I have heard that several states such as Colorado have programs in place where ranchers get involved in a program with the state where hunters can come out and hunt on their land for reduced rates and the hunters in return, sign contracts to only take management bucks and does. Our state could greatly benefit by such a program, we just don't have any leadership at the state level. If it continues at this rate, we will be like much of Europe where only the wealthy hunt and the commoners play video games. I know 15 guys that have lost their leases this year to increased costs and now, they and their kids are sitting out with little prospects of getting to hunt anything. We are hunting grasshoppers with the BB gun right now, so like you said Dave, we are making the best of it.

Pistol Pete -

It sounds like your Texas public land managers could use a few new ideas. If they are still acquiring land, you might suggest they check with the Florida Wildlife Commission. Here in Florida, a portion of new game lands are being set aside for limited big game hunting by drawing, then a long small game season, then closed to vehicles the rest of the year. People can hike in or bike or bring a horse all year round. No ATVs at any time except for disabled people. It has created some places that are more like the older days -- quieter and more game to see. Great for introducing kids to hunting. We have at least 6 WMAs like that spread around Florida now.

It is hard to get drawn for one of the special opportunity hunts (only about 30 deer hunters during one week per year on 15,000 acres at the WMA I like to go to - named Triple N Ranch), but the deer herd is kept strong and it is very likely for everyone to see healthy bucks and does. Those 30 hunters get about a 50% success rate on 8 point or better bucks. And in small game season hunters aren't intimidated like they are at other WMAs where big game hunters stake out large pieces of land they don't want anyone to walk across. It is also pretty neat for non-hunters (bird watchers, photographers) to come on the land with small game hunters and get to know them and get more comfortable with hunters and learn what responsible hunters and their thinking is like. I never thought I would live to see the day.

I was part of a diverse group (Stillhunters of Florida, neighboring ranchers, Audubon Society, Sierra Club, Florida Trails and National Trails Association, informal Friends of Triple N Ranch, etc) that together fought for at least some of our public lands to be set aside like that, so I know it can be done. But it might take a few years to spawn the idea and get it going. In my book, the effort is worth it.

Dave

hey Pistolpete, what was the bad experience on the public land hunting that you'd never do that again. Was it too crowded?

I lived in Texas for 4 years before moving back to Oregon last Dec. I never did hunt down there although I hunted every year before moving there. I thought it was a little expensive after growing up in Oregon and hunting public land.

hey Pistolpete, what was the bad experience on the public land hunting that you'd never do that again. Was it too crowded?

I lived in Texas for 4 years before moving back to Oregon last Dec. I never did hunt down there although I hunted every year before moving there. I thought it was a little expensive after growing up in Oregon and hunting public land.

That was exactly the problem. There is very little public land and it looked like a million hunters had been tromping over it. Needless to say the deer had hightailed it out of the region and went to private land where the pressure was less. The blaze orange law is in effect when hunting these public lands, but I still felt that it was too dangerous to go out there as there were too many people on too little land.

Dang, That doesn't sound like much fun. I don't think I'd go out there either.

I hope you find a place to hunt.

Hey guys... I'd like to ad my comments on hunting in Texas.

Inexpensive leases are out there, it just takes a little leg work and getting out of the big cities to find them. If you are looking in the want ads of the big city papers you are wasting your time. There are landowners looking for good hunters and there are landowners that just want $$$ and they don't care if it is a new group of hunters every year. The ones that want the $$$ advertise in the Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio papers. The ones that want the good hunters advertise in the local papers.

Take a weeks vacation in June and visit the area you want to hunt. Check into the local hotel and let them know that you are here to look for a lease. Find the best dinners, for breakfast, lunch and dinner and let them know the same thing. Talk to everyone. Before you go, subscribe to the local paper... they usually come out once a week. Run an ad for several weeks and let them know that you will be looking.

I own land but also participate in the TPWD draw hunts. They are great hunts but not the same as being on a lease.

Attend the TWPD county meetings. These are usually in mid to late summer and 1 to 5 people attend. This meeting is where your comments are recorded and taken directly to the TPWD board members. I attend and every time I have spoken I have gotten a reply from the board. In my county there are typically myself and one or two more people in the meeting. Everyone b1tches about TPWD and their programs but no one attends the one meeting that makes a difference.

Just some thoughts...

I don't know if this is the right place to post this or not but here goes. I will have to live vicariously through ya'lls hunting adventures this year since I can't afford to hunt in my own home state anymore. Something like 98% of the land is in private ownership and hunting leases have gotten to be such big business that the average guy can not afford to hunt anymore. I believe the average price is $1500 /gun on most leases and the high fence places are going for over $2,000/gun. I know of at least 15 guys that can not afford to hunt anymore and therefore, their kids are not hunting either. I am all for landowners making money but most ranches are way overpopulated with deer/hogs as is. Keep those hunting stories coming so those of us that won't be able to hunt this year can at least enjoy your adventures.
Pistol pete

Your right, the $ just keep going up on these leases in Texas, but if you are not interested in trophy bucks, there are numerous places where week-end package hunts are available for less than $500. That usually includes 1 doe and 1 or 2 hogs. Turkeys are not expensive.
But the number 1 target of all of this Texas hunting is Trophy Bucks scoring 140 and up. High fenced ranches in the southern part of the state generally go for $3500 to as much as you want to spend for season leases. But the 3-4 day hunts with garranteed success go for a little less- at least they do this year!!
Last year there were many openings on leases that were left empty because the year before was effected by a bad economy.
The wildlife management areas such as Chapparel and the Hagerman produce huge deer, but are hard to get on.

Another option and maybe the best is the Texas State Park System. The state put all parks on a profit or loss system a few years ago so now they are selling special permits to hunt Whitetail in those parks.
It is not expensive and there have been some very big deer killed in the past.
The Mineral Wells State Park and the Possum Kingdom State Park are a few of them. You might want to contact Steve Jones at the MW state Park for details- Old friend and he'll tell you straight..

I am concerned that there doesn't seem to be as many younger hunters anymore. I don't know if its all about pricing. I think computer games and sitting around contemplating one's naval, has taken its toll. They seem to get their kicks in other ways.
Anyway, Texas Park & Wildlife will soon list Texas Ranches
that will allow off- season hunting on their property which might help you. Hogs, small game, and varmints are always available- combine that with fishing good old stock ponds, and you have a great week-end.
Good Luck
TPV

Hi all, a lot of good comments coming in on this thread. I just read in the DALLAS MORNING NEWS by columnist Ray Sasser this morning that Texas Parks and Wildlife has been catching a lot of flak this year about affordable hunting opportunities and they have come up with a solution. They are going to all the big ranches that charge way too much too hunt and will not allow cheaper fees for doe hunts and such, trap their excess does ( doing their management for them for free), and transporting them to some small high fenced state properties where hunters can shoot them. The logical step according to Mr. Sasser would be for these ranches to let a TP&W bioligist come on the place and have a hunter pay a guide fee to them to make sure that no yearling bucks are killed and only does and culls are taken. A win-win for everybody. It seems that TP&W board members are more concerned about how they can help their ranching buddies out than they are in coming up with reasonable ways to give the public hunting opportunities and at the same time, provide game management to ranches. Instead of costing the state money for trapping expenses, this program might actually make some money or at least cover the cost and help the rancher out. There are so many ranches that have a doe/buck ratio out of wack and need about 40-60 does killed a year, yet they are reluctant to offer a solution. I would wonder how the non-hunting public would react when they hear that the state is trapping deer for canned hunts. Sounds like a public relations nightmare to me. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I hope it never gets that way here.

I am lucky I live in the bush 20 mins in any direction and I am surounded by the local wildlife. there is three mountain ranges within 200 miles of me and deer. pigs. roos, foxes and feral cats are abundent.
Here ya can buy a lease to shoot national park land to lessen the ferral pest population but I just advertise in the loacal papers for land to shoot and usally have to beat the farmers away.

Pigs are bad out west and the drought has made the roos and rabbits a real issue in some places its looking like a good winters hunting down here.

PistolPete...

I truly don't know what an answer is but I understand some of the problems having been on both ends of the dollar bill... hunter and landowner.

Back in the early 80's you would see doe hunts advertised by the column in the Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio papers. Something like... one day, 3 does, $300. I ran an ad to attract hunters to fill doe tags. The problem was it was extremely labor intensive and simply not worth the money earned. Most that came out where poor shots or had poor shooting rifles. The wounding loss ratio was horrific! At the time I operated 15,000 acres of prime south Texas brush country and had to kill about 250 does a year. I think this was the experience suffered by most and is why you don't see the ads in the paper like they used to have them.

I know a fellow that works on a large ranch, a little under 30,000 acres, and this was their experience. Now, they gather the paperwork and each guide is responsible for killing about 80 does a year, give or take based on the year. It's just a task to be accomplished as quickly as possible. It would tie that guide up for an entire month, something they accomplish literally in a matter of days. Actually, it just doesn't work with a guide's time based on what I found because the hunts only work on the weekends because most that attended were the working fellow that couldn't get time off in the week. Unfortunately, it's a terrible waste of a recreational resource. The meat isn't wasted, it is well taken care of.

It's a tough one to figure out. I know there is a lot of landowners that would let TPWD hold a public hunt if they would provide adequate manpower to conduct the hunt... and of course the Department just doesn't have that. I mean... on the place I had if I turned a guy loose unattended it would have taken three days to find him. Folks where so unprepared... we had fellows show up to kill the three deer and they only had three bullets for the SKS they just bought!

TPWD just doesn't have the people to do this. I was lucky if I could get a biologist to return my phone call. He would spend one-day on my place and write a management plan. Most large ranches can't afford the lack of attention from TPWD and hirer or contract with a professional biologist to handle the work.

I don't know what the answer is. I do think the TWPD Commissioners represents the biggest good-ole-boy system in the State and the rules by which we are allowed to hunt are based directly on the impact to these privileged landowners.

Hi Ranch Dog,
I agree with you that it is a problem on both sides of the coin, for the rancher as well as the hunter. I have thought many times that ranches could offer a reduced price "doe only lease" in conjunction with their regular lease prices. The landowner could pick and choose who he wanted on his lease, get to know his hunters, and still make some money while fulfilling his game management requirements. The doe only hunter would have a place to go and take his kids, get some meat for a reasonable fee, and still enjoy the hunting experience. I have never had to manage a ranch like some of you guys so you might possibly find problems with this suggestion that I haven't thought of. I know that I have too many friends that have simply hung up their guns or hunt out of state which is often cheaper than hunting in state. Either way, the kids suffer and I am concerned with the future of hunting in our state unless the TP&W board starts taking this issue seriously.

PistolPete...

I truly don't know what an answer is but I understand some of the problems having been on both ends of the dollar bill... hunter and landowner.

Back in the early 80's you would see doe hunts advertised by the column in the Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio papers. Something like... one day, 3 does, $300. I ran an ad to attract hunters to fill doe tags. The problem was it was extremely labor intensive and simply not worth the money earned. Most that came out where poor shots or had poor shooting rifles. The wounding loss ratio was horrific! At the time I operated 15,000 acres of prime south Texas brush country and had to kill about 250 does a year. I think this was the experience suffered by most and is why you don't see the ads in the paper like they used to have them.

I know a fellow that works on a large ranch, a little under 30,000 acres, and this was their experience. Now, they gather the paperwork and each guide is responsible for killing about 80 does a year, give or take based on the year. It's just a task to be accomplished as quickly as possible. It would tie that guide up for an entire month, something they accomplish literally in a matter of days. Actually, it just doesn't work with a guide's time based on what I found because the hunts only work on the weekends because most that attended were the working fellow that couldn't get time off in the week. Unfortunately, it's a terrible waste of a recreational resource. The meat isn't wasted, it is well taken care of.

It's a tough one to figure out. I know there is a lot of landowners that would let TPWD hold a public hunt if they would provide adequate manpower to conduct the hunt... and of course the Department just doesn't have that. I mean... on the place I had if I turned a guy loose unattended it would have taken three days to find him. Folks where so unprepared... we had fellows show up to kill the three deer and they only had three bullets for the SKS they just bought!

TPWD just doesn't have the people to do this. I was lucky if I could get a biologist to return my phone call. He would spend one-day on my place and write a management plan. Most large ranches can't afford the lack of attention from TPWD and hirer or contract with a professional biologist to handle the work.

I don't know what the answer is. I do think the TWPD Commissioners represents the biggest good-ole-boy system in the State and the rules by which we are allowed to hunt are based directly on the impact to these privileged landowners.

Frustrating, isn't it! With all of the work involved to feed and maintain a ranch with a good population of wildlife and trophy bucks, it is amazing to me that most folks think that $350 a doe is too much.

I am faced with a needed harvest of about 35 doe each year.
and most are done by me and a few close friend hunters. Newspaper adds are work. I can tell by the first few words a prospective hunter says whether I would want him on the ranch or not.
I had one guy on one of these doe hunts that said he was waiting until Sunday morning to shoot one. I picked him up that morning, all all he did was take pictures.I wasted all week-end on that one.
Also had one guy give me a hot check for two doe. He stayed in the county jail for a while. So I don't like to put ads in the newspaper anymore.
One of the best and most fun doe hunts I've been associated with is with a national social service organization
that helps fatherless boys. The boy has to shot the deer but be accompanied by the volunteer. There were about 40 people involved , we killed about ten doe and had more fun than I've had in a long time.
Sometimes, we all get a little spoiled by our successes in life. But when you meet some young man who has absolutely nothing going for him in life unless by someone else help, it is amazing the pride and self confidence he gets by harvesting his first deer.
No one makes any money off of these hunts, but they are more satisfying by far.
Good Luck
Tom