Following TPM's & 308shtr's threads which got hi-jacked off track by our mate AC-Pilot, I'm not too despondent about the trend to civil marriage. Doesn't it display less hypocrisy than unbelievers who shop around for a society church in which to take their photographs and wear expensive clothes? When my non-Christian friends choose a civil wedding, I ask them to consider making vows in church, but my principal emotion is happiness that they're making a public commitment to each other and the institution of marriage rather than continuing to "live in sin" (as if we married Christians lived sin-free :p )
I'm an anglican (episcopalian) so I know all about hypocritical and insincere vows made in churches, whether by marriage candidates or bishops :mad:
And what a great opportunity to gossip the gospel to our friends, neighbours and workmates. We can't love them unless we respect the integrity of their choices, but we can gently ask them if we can help them to find a church for the wedding, or may we offer a prayer for them at the civil ceremony? Few will demur to that request, and then we've got an entree to them and their family for the rest of their life. And when, as everyone must at some critical juncture, they want to talk about God but don't know the language, we might have the awesome privilege of helping them to Christ. So just be glad that they're getting married and never mind where the ceremony is.

Wonderful and inciteful post Richard. I fully agree. If one doesn't have a faith why get married in a church? Marriage in a church is a holdover from when only priests and ministers could perform unions (plus it looks good in the photos).

Of course, many believers who believe that marriage is a holy union will howl at the thought. I do not judge those outside the church. Let them do as they please, so long as they do not trample on the rights of the believers to practice their faith.

We can't love them unless we respect the integrity of their choices

Say what? Christian's are no where commanded to respect error. I have no respect for error, nor do I respect those who seek to destroy the nation. Did Elijah show respect for the Priests of Baal when he mocked them? We are to be ready in an instant to share the gospel, to preach the word and to give no quarter to the enemy. True love is telling the sinner that they are on their way to ****, but that God has provided a remedy in Christ. Withholding the truth and respecting their sin is not biblical love.

JN 12:47 “If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
JN 12:48 “ He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

RO 2:1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

1CO 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?

We as Brothers and Sisters in Christ are commanded to bring the Gospel to all unbelievers so that those who believe shall be saved. We are not commanded to judge them or force them to believe. On the contrary, we are told to leave them alone and live our lives so as to be an example to them.

I will not tolerate error in a community of believers and readily follow the guidelines that Paul laid out for us as a guide to correcting those in the church. That is why I have posted on the gay bishop and have bothered to answer some of AC_Pilot's posts.

When our message turns from one of understanding sin, and telling of the remission of sin to salvation through Christ to one of hate and intolerance we are failing the Lord.

"Hate" and "intolerance" are solid Christian virtues when properly applied. We are to hate sin, but love the sinner. We are to be intolerant of sin and to hate even the garment spotted by the flesh.

I hate sodomy, but in love I will share the gospel with a homosexual. Loving my neighbour does not mean condoning sinful behaviour. If I see my unsaved neighbour raping his daughter, I'm going to physically intervene. I'm not going to stand by and say, "well, that's the unbeliever's and I'm not to judge. Whatever they do is their business." No, I'm going to grab the idiot and restrain him with whatever force is necessary and then turn him over to the police.

When queers are trying to destroy the nation and indoctrinate my children into their perversions, I'm not going to stand by and say, "that's ok, go right ahead." No, I'm going to obey God and raise my children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

No, I'm not advocating trying to reform the sinner apart from the gospel. Obviously, only God's work in salvation can make a transformation in a person's life. This does not mean that I cannot stand for truth and defend my family and the helpless.

Should we be silent while millions of innocent Americans are butchered each year? Should I respect cold blooded killers? Yes, let's by all means share the gospel with all and tell of God's love. However, if you leave out the judgement and wrath of God, you have not proclaimed the full gospel. Judgement Day is coming and for those who don't know the Lord, he will show them no mercy, nor will he heed their cries.

When the Lord Jesus came the first time, he did not come to judge. When he comes again, he will come as both Judge and King. He will dash the nations into pieces and rule them with a rod of iron.

I do not advocate standing by and doing nothing. We have an obligation to vote and make our views known to our legislators.

We must, of course, stop those who are committing illegal acts.

However, I would like to address this statement:

"When queers are trying to destroy the nation and indoctrinate my children into their perversions, I'm not going to stand by and say, "that's ok, go right ahead." No, I'm going to obey God and raise my children in the fear and admonition of the Lord."

When taken in full context you are entirely correct and I applaud you. This is exactly what we are instructed to do.

When taken out of context:

"When queers are trying to destroy the nation and indoctrinate my children into their perversions, I'm not going to stand by and say, "that's ok, go right ahead."

We provide ammunition to those that say we are full of hate.

I will and do proudly stand up and say that the homosexual act is a sin unto death. I will and do say to all who will listen that abortion is murder. I do raise my children in fear and admonition of the Lord.

I will not play satan's game by providing sound bites for his campaign.

It would appear then that we are not that far apart at all.

They ARE queers and they ARE perverse. They have highjacked the term gay and I'm not going to let them get away with it. If you prefer, I could also use the term Sodomites, which is biblical. Homosexual may be accurate and it may be scientific, but it's also far too accomodating, IMO.

From now on, I'll use Sodomite.