Have I been missing something? Did anyone know about this?

http://www.ithunk.org/ithunklink1.asp?URL=http://www.religioustolerance.org/bibl_hate3.htm&description=The%20bible%20as%20hate%20literature&ID=279&count=

When the bible is declared "hate speach" by governing powers, it will likely become apparent to some why the same governing power also wants to keep track of where the firearms are.

The facts as stated on the website are correct.

Bye
Jack

You first must know that freedom of speech is not a garanteed right in Canada and never has been. The government can restrict not only speech, but also TV and radio. We have a government department called the CRTC which regulates what Canadians are permitted to hear, watch and broadcast.

Recently a new bill (C-250) was passed which modified existing hate crimes legislation to include sexual orientation. However, "orientation" is not defined in the bill, therefore it can apply to anything including polygamy, beastiality, paedophilia, S&M, bondage, incest, or any other perversion.

It is feared by some that this bill will pave the way to outlaw certain portions of the bible and religious freedom. It's hard to believe, but we are actually facing the day when Canadians will go to jail for mere words. It is a truly sad day. A generation ago our fathers faught and died for freedom. That freedom is fast slipping away and we will end up like the USSR and NAZI Germany, where only government approved religious belief's will be permitted.

Of course the Muslims in Canada continue to preach and teach that homosexuality is sin and worthy of death, but the hypocrite's in both government and the queer community are afraid to deal with them, because Muslims can be violent and dangerous. They are only going after the Christians because Christians are easy targets.

or any other perversion

TAP,
Are you not risking prosecution just by typing this simple line? According to that article you whould be spouting "hate speach" with those four simple words and your "bigoted" opinion of said acts. I hope the Thought Police aren't reading this.

I did'nt know about the freedom of speech restrictions in Canada, guess that is why Peter Jennings did'nt stay and he certainly practices that freedom here.

God Bless the USA
JB

There is not much risk at this point because C250 still has to pass in the Senate and receive Royal assent, which has not yet happened. Further, the law will have to be tested to determine it's boundaries. I suspect it will take a few years before we see it's full impact. If what we fear will happen, happens, then I will take my family to America, where people are still free and their thoughts and speech not controlled by the Federal government. For some reason, many modern Canadians have a "lemming" mentality and need someone to both take care of them and guide their thoughts.

BTW, a "bigot" is anyone who is obstinately devoted to his own opinion or viewpoint. Therefore, those who support homosexuality are by definition bigots, for they refuse to "tolerate" dissent.

If what we fear will happen, happens, then I will take my family to America, where people are still free and their thoughts and speech not controlled by the Federal government.

TPM,

If this happens you are welcome to stay with us until you find a place to live.

I fear though that with the proliferation of hate speech laws in this country we are facing the same here. I pray that, if they do ban the Bible we use today, we will have the courage to flood the judicial system by refusing to give them up!

308, thanks for your kind and gracious offer. I pray that we will never have to use it.

I too pray that many will stand for what is right, despite the consequences. Believers in every age have had to endure persecution for their faith and we may have to also. In some Canadian jurisdictions child porn is legal, while simply uttering words of dissent over sodomy is not. We will have child molesters enjoying the freedom of society while those "dangerous" dissenters, who dare to think for themselves, will be in jail. What a disgusting mess.

I was heartened recently at a town hall meeting conducted by my Federal Member of Parliament (MP.) As you may know, Canada is leading the world in perversion and sin, and is considering legallizing homosexual marriage. My MP called a town hall since his office was flooded with calls and letters against it. 130 showed up (it's a small rural town) and the vast majority were against it and boldly quoted the bible and stated their defiance to any law which would try to silence Christians. It was a great night! Of course the MP did not care about our wishes and will vote against them since he supports homo marriage, so we reminded him that he would be removed from office come the spring elections!

Thank God there are still good Canadians who are willing to stand up for the word of God without fear. I had almost lost all hope.

I hate the French <ribbit>. I never liked the French <ribbit> even before 9/11. Now thats free speach. Somebody try to sue this Free American. :mad:

The bible is the bible. I wonder if the Canadians have the guts to outlaw passeges in the Quran?

AKBAR KHALI-KILI HAFTIR LOTFAN translates to "Thank you for showing me your marvelous gun"

allah be praised, now pass the gun powder... ;)

Just to cheer up your Monday morning:

Italian judge orders crucifix off the wall

By Geoff Hutchison in Europe and BBC

A judgment to remove crucifixes from a provincial classroom has sparked a furore in Italy.

The decision followed a complaint by a Muslim parent at the school.

Adel Smith is a Muslim community leader whose son attends a primary school in the town of L'Aquila.

When he asked for the koran to be displayed alongside a crucifix in his son's classroom, the request was denied.

He went to court and now the school has 30 days to take its crucifix off the wall.

The judge agreed the crucifix represented the state's willingness to put the Catholic religion at the centre of the universe, without respect for the role played by other religions.

But the church has responded with outrage.

Cardinal Ersilio Tonini says the ruling offends the majority of Italians.

"You cannot eliminate a symbol of a nation's religious and cultural values simply because it offends someone," he said.

The law on crucifixes dates back to the fascist period and has never been explicitly repealed.

However the Education Minister, who has also endorsed controversial funding for Catholic schools, last month reiterated that crucifixes must be hung.

But one teachers union has welcomed the ruling, saying it would reinforce the secular character of the education system.

Let's get the facts straight. Canada does have "freedom of speech" but calls it something slightly different. The full Charter can be found at the link below but the important part as it relates to the issue in question is

"Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;
b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) freedom of association."

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/

The problem seems to be stemming from challenges from the gay community. On one hand, Canada is trying to ensure equality for all persons, regardless of their sexual orientation. That is why the question of gay marriage is being examined very closely. However, the problem seems to be that this is being carried even further so that religious texts are being tested against the definition of hate literature. This is not a done deal by any stretch of the imagination, but it is certainly bringing about an awful lot of discussion and debate.

Canada does NOT have freedom of speech like America does. It is illegal to have religious radio stations unless they present all views. It is illegal to speak against Sodomites on the radio and TV. Radio programming coming from the US and played on Canadian stations must be modified in order to meet Canadian law. It is illegal for Canadians to purchase and watch certain American TV stations such as Foxnews. We are only permitted to buy what our government allows.

Bill C 250 is now before the Senate having made it throught parliament. As soon as the Senate votes on it (and we know they will approve it) it becomes law. This will happen early in 2004. Not only does this bill potentially outlaw religious texts, but it also makes it a hate crime to challenge ANY sexual orientation, for the bill does not define what sexual orientation is. Thus, peadophilia, beastiality, necromancy and incest will now be protected "orientations" along with Sodomy. Persons who have come out of the queer "lifestyle" (and there are many who have) and are now living in heterosexual relationships could be charged with hate if they tell their story of how they changed, since queers will consider this hate. After all, no one can change according to them.

The "fundamental freedoms" listed in the charter are meaningless. In case after case Judges are ruling against Christians. A man in Toronto was sentenced for simply standing on a street corner and handing out Christian literature to Muslims. A newspaper in Manitoba was fined for printing bible verses as a paid ad. We could go on and on with examples of how Christianity is under attack in the country. The so called charter freedoms are subject to the "hate crimes" laws. Thus any freedom deemed to be hate is now illegal.

Freedom only exists for perverts in Canada.

TPM

You make some excellent points! However, the right and fundamental freedoms do exist. The question is to what degree do they exist. It is kind of like the degree the Second Amendment exists in the face of bans on certain weapon types and magazines over a certain capacity.

As I see it, the fact that someone has been charged with something (like distributing literature) doesn't necessarily mean they are breaking the law. The police on the beat are just doing what they are told to do by the Crown attorneys who are trying to get a grip on the slippery interpretation of the law that certain minority groups are pushing forward to be tested.

The overall guiding principle when it comes to equality in Canada seems to be that it has to be equal, that the rights and freedoms have to apply to all so long as it is in the interests of society that they do so. So, murderers aren't allowed to practice their crime because it is clear that it is contrary to the interests of society that they not be allowed to do so. Homosexuals are being looked at as equal under the law in Canada to any other member of society. It doesn't matter that they represent a very small proportion of the population or that society as a whole neither supports nor rejects their "lifestyle", they are equal and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees their equality. It SHOULD protect the rights of those who disagree with that view, but in Canada it is against the law, as you point out, to promote hatred of any group based on any of the prohibited ground because it creates civil unrest and a potential danger to members of the group. There is a HUGE grey area there where it is all but impossible to tell when someone is expressing their own, passionately held belief and when they are fomenting hatred of others.

I for one am on the side of tolerence. It is not for me to judge the hearts of others based on their professed beliefs or lifestyle choices. "By their fruits you will know them....." I believe that people of God aren't necessarily just one particular religion (or any religion, for that matter) but will be judged by what is in their hearts.

I think the following from Proverbs 9:8 is appropriate.
"Do not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you, Reprove a wise man and he will love you." Couple that to, "the fear of the Lord is the beginng of wisdom." Again, rebuking one who doesn't fear the Lord will only make him hate you.
Queers and others who scoff at the Lord are necessarily outside the Kingdom, making our rebuke meaningless; it's applying a rule to them when they aren't even in the game. Sexual deviation is a sin. It's one of many sins. Our faith is built not on our righteous actions but on the Lord's forgiveness of our sins. I can't fear or hate these sinners because I know how many sins my Lord has forgiven me; I can only love them and hope they will abandon their wickedness by accepting the leadership of the One True God.
One the other hand, these poor people find our disapproval intolerable, whether we take action on it or not. And unfortunately, the Church has historically taken actions that can't be termed merciful, making them wary.
What is the answer?
Should we abandon our secular government in favor of a theocracy? We, on the Southern side of the border, are descended from people who fled Europe's rigid coupling of Church and State. If the Church is the Bride of Christ, She should not be in bed with the State. Who would we find to lead such a theocracy? I can't think of anyone, short of Jesus, to do it. To separate ourselves completely and establish a Christian Theocracy would hardly extend the Kingdom of God; we must remain in the world. No, for the time being, a secular government that trys to protect all its citizens is far preferable.

The best thing we can do is, pray for our enemies and those who hate us.

91Carcano

Only biblical Christianity is under attack and we understand why. Satan is only interested in attacking that which is truly of God. He does not go after his own religions, for they are already doing his bidding and deceiving many.

Our hope is not in government, but in the Lord. We do what we can to speak for right, but at the end of the day the bible tells us that things will get worse before they get better.

The encouraging thing is to understand that when we see these things "begin" to come pass, then look up, for our redemption draweth nigh!

Only biblical Christianity is under attack and we understand why. Satan is only interested in attacking that which is truly of God. He does not go after his own religions, for they are already doing his bidding and deceiving many.

Our hope is not in government, but in the Lord. We do what we can to speak for right, but at the end of the day the bible tells us that things will get worse before they get better.

The encouraging thing is to understand that when we see these things "begin" to come pass, then look up, for our redemption draweth nigh!

Amen Brother!

I know this is a christian board, so I hope I don't offend anyone, because that is not my wish. I will state that I am an aetheist for lack of a better word, but I understand why people have religion and harbor no malice to those. I do not have a bible to look up those 3 passages in the ad, but if it does say "any man who lies with a man should be put to death" (or something along the lines) I kind of feel that maybe that ad should be taken out. I know freedom of speech means you should be allowed to say what you want, but threatening a whole group of persons is pushing the limit. However I could be wrong, and I'm sure the bible has many different ways it can be taken. I sincerely hope I have not offended you. Good Day.

Thanks for looking in on the forum, Mighty Pirate, and for the thoughtful way in which you put yr viewpoint.
Christians get a bit inbred sometimes, and it does us good to have our assumptions challenged. I'm sorry that you haven't got a bible, if for no other reason than that it's a great work of literature. Mail me yr snail-mail address to rhlance@bigpond.com and I'll send you a bible in contemporary language.
God bless you mate, and keep you safe.
Richard

Actually I was talking with my girlfriend about it (we've moved intogether) and she has one, but thank you for the offer. It's sad that religion is such a controversial topic in todays day and age.

No offense taken. Thanks for your comments.

What we need to explain is that the passage you quoted is from the Old Testament Law as given to Moses and it was for the children of Israel, not Canadians in 2004. I know this may not make sense to you, but we are now under what we call "grace" and not the "law." The law had it's purpose and time, but it's not for us today. (It does however, teach us much.)

That being said, the point of the verses (and others we could quote) is that God does not appprove of Sodomy. In fact, he hates it. He loves those that practice it, for he sent his Son to die on the cross to pay for that sin. He does however, hate the sin. He now commands men to repent of their sin and turn to him for forgiveness.

We are not to put Sodomites to death and the bible does not teach us that we should. Rather, it teaches us that God hates sin, all sin, of which Sodomy is particularly aggregious. However, the answer for that problem is repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ.

I hope this clarifies the issue a little.

The problem facing Canada is that one view of Sodomy is being permitted and the contrary view is not. If you are pro-homosexual, then you are free to speak. If you are not pro-homosexual, then you are not free to speak. This is simply wrong and an injustice. If we allow this, then what is next? The way we are going, perhaps it will be hunting or gun enthusiasts next.

I'm not saying anti-homosexuals don't have the right to say what they want. I'm just saying that some things are not covered under freedom of speech, like saying a certain person(s) should die for their ideals.

Well, we disagree then on what constitutes free speech.

I guess we also disagree on what assault is.

Sorry, I don't follow.

Assault here in america is when a person threatens to harm a person physically or mentally.

Battery is the actual act of following through with that threat.

So if a person was to excersize his freedom by saying "I want to kill all dykes and gays" he can be sued for assault, and in print I think you can also get the charge of slander added on because they harmed the persons reputation. I believe in the constitution and I still think this country is great (canadah aint to shabby either :) ) but freedoms do need to have limits, or else you get anarchy.

Being sued and being charged are two different things.

You can sue anyone, at any time, in civil courts, for any reason. Of course this is at your own expense. Factor in that you'd ordinarily like to win the case to make it worth your effort. And a civil court judgement is normally for money, and would not involve jail time.

Now, getting a district attourney to bring up charges on someone is a different story. First, they need to be convinced that there is a legitimate threat, not just a general "I want to (harm) a (generic group of people)."

Second, they need to be convinced that they will win, and this case is a bigger priority than other crimes that have been committed.

I think that you would find it pretty difficult to find a case where someone put up a billboard in this country, and got jail time, for anything other than anti-obscenty charges.

Yes you are correct that 'assault' is in fact the threat of violence, not the carrying out of it. But it's a bit rare for someone to get charged with assault by only words, not actions.

Related example - if someone says to me on the street "I am going to kill you" and I shoot them, I'm probably going to go to jail. If that same person says the same words, while holding a knife or gun or even swinging a 2x4 and running in my direction, that normally would give me justification for lethal self-defense. That's an example from my concealed-carry class in Texas. Your state laws may vary.....

Slander is a different matter entirely, and would have nothing to do with the billboard in the original post.

Well I know that being sued and charged are two different things. One is civil law the other criminal, but Im just saying the constitution also protects our freedom to feel secure in our homes. I'm just saying there are some things that shouldn't be said, "If you don't have anything to nice, don't say it at all"

In Vermont carry permits are a little different, the state laws say you do not need a permit to carry a gun. However certain citys prohibit it...those cities laws are trying to be changed due to fact that they go against state law. However VT has turned into a fairly "yuppish" state recently and our lethal self defense laws are obscurred, pretty much if someone attacks you with a 2x4 you should spray him with mace, cause the attacker doesn't really want to hurt you.
However I think I am detracting from this post so I'll shuddup.

Sure, but the difference here is that an historical book was being quoted, namely the bible. Are we afraid of what the bible says?

The US Constitution protects "feelings?"

91Carcano
Well said. I'm afraid that if Christians ruled themselves, there would be constant fighting over which denomination would rule! Remember the anabaptists were burned at the stake by other Christians!

TPN
I believe the matter is not that the Muslims are so violent... but that we are hated. The Christians are being targeted both in the U.S. and Canada. It's O.K. to have hate speech toward us...

Thank the Lord....

Matthew 5

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.