I recently purchased a mould that throws a 105 grain SWC .357 bullett. I would like to load these for carry rounds in my wifes 2 inch .38 and my 3 inch .357

Currently I carry 158 JSP and she carries 158 SWC, but I have heard that these can over penetrative and thus can be hazardous (to onlookers) in terms of defensive urban use.

I figure that these light bullets might be the answer to overpenetration, as well as giving a quite good OSS rating, as they can be driven quite fast.
Any comments

I have also had an idea to use small drill bit to turn the meplat into a hollow point (cup point?). Ok, I admit, I've already made a few, but am plum out of volunteers to test then on. :D

I would love to ask for suggested loads, but being stuck out here on the tip of darkest Africa, I doubt wether I could find (afford) to use the powders you are familiar with.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
Cheers

Hmmm.... you might give them a bit of a test to see if your theory holds up. Try shooting into wet newsprint and compare with the 158gr. bullets.

Over here the statistics indicate that the 125gr. JHP is the top load for the .357 Mag. The little 105gr. SWC should be able to make impressive velocities, now whether it would hold together or not is a good question.

What sort of powders do you have available? I'm thinking something around the burn rate of Unique (AA#5, Clays, Green Dot, Herco, etc.).

Have used that Lee 105gr. SWC mold in the Old notes show I got to 1600fps past (and off hand, can't think of any other common mold in that weiight SWC). Good bullet, but needs to be cast rock hard to stand being pushed out of a .357mag. at full speed. Old notes show I got to a good bit more than 1600fps using WW231 powder....won't mention the load, as I later backed it doen to 9.0gr. and lived happier (this from a 6" revolver).

From a 2" .38special (S&W mod. 36) maxed out at about 1000fps (actually, 994fps ). May have been able to get a little bit more out of it...that's the thing, hard to judge p[ressure without a pressure gun, and you just have to compare data with other bullets to arrive at a guestimate on when to stop. I decided to stop at 5.3gr. of 231, figuing an extra 50 or 100fps wasn't going to help things all that much.

Did find that the tradtional slower powders (2400 and H110) didn't wrok very well with the light bullet...and the traditional fast powders (Bullseye and 700X) got "twitchy" when pushing them that hard. Found the medium handgun powders to wrok best...231, Unique, and now I'd guess Power Pistol of AA#5 to be about right.

Were problems...accuracy generally sucked past 900-1050m FPS...not a leading problem, just poor groups the faster I pushed them. Didn't have the "thump" of JHP ammo but as you guessed, didn't have the penetration of heavy SWC ammo either.

The bullets found a good home in lthe 9mm and .380, but as they didn't seerve any of the revolver's needs for me, stopped working with them.

Thanks guys
I know the OSS rating for the 125 JHP is up at around 96 %, which is about the best that has been achieved out of a every day carry gun. Our local manafacturers do load a 125 JSP, but most local gun shops don't seem to be able to see past the 158 grain JSP. Maybe I should just blow my annual salary bonus on a box of imported 125 JHP - problem is, I don't like to leave carry ammo in the safe too long - Will sure be painful to shoot a box of those into a earth back stop - Unless I can locate the bullets and just load them up as I "need them"

My hope is to get complete energy dump - basically a round that blows up in the assailant, with no danger of exposing me to law suits from innocent bystanders (or breaking my TV or HIFI behind him :D ). I am looking at arm length to room length stuff, not 40m so I believe I can get away with less than tack driving accuracy.

Sorry - I use Somchem Powders (Made in South Africa) and am currently using MP200, if that means anything to you - I think my reloading manual gives comparable US powders, but I don't have that on me right now - will get back to you on that.

Am going to make some bangs later on, so I will let you know how the bullets performed (accuracy wise - no chronograph :( )

Cheers

Don't know those powders, but if you can pick one in the bruning range of Unique (a medium handgun speed), should work out OK. The slow powders just didn't get higher velocity...nothing wrong with using them, except it talkes more powder and the unbruned powder tends to gum up the works.

Let us know how it turns out for you.

Hi there
Back from banging

Good results from .357 and .38, ito accuracy at 15m. Loads for the .38 seem a little on the low side, which is possible as i did not have data for 105 grains, so i used loads for a heavier bullet (125 grains I think) as a guideline.

I was quite happy with the .357 loads, although they also could probably do with a little beefing up.

Did not get a chance to put any through wet pack, unfortunately, so I could not judge my hollow points performance, or the penetration of the straight 105's.

Will keep you informed of developments.

I will let you know about your suggested loads once i have determined how our powder relates to Unique.

cheers

Started looking at "odd" powders (at least odd in the U.S.) . Came up with stuff marketed as Bofors (probably Swedish), SNPE ( a large corp. that includes rocket engins, reactive armor, artillery...seems to be European, with most companies with a tie to France), Rottweil , ADI (still have to research this one), Vectan (researching), and Clermont (which seems to be Belgian).

Thing is, companies tend to change the nalme of the powders marketed in the US, either as a markinging ploy or at the request of the importer. Didn't get any hits from Sochem other than industrial cleaners.

May have to do a little search on your end to come up with a placement.

..OK...ADi seems to be Austrilian.

Vectan and SNPE both link back to Noblesport...Noble...whicih makes it European (pretty well spread out into Spain, France, Italy).

Still haven't gotten a trail back to South Africa other than that the company exists as a chemical company.

At last...still no direct contact, but thro0ughn the SA Hunter's ANd Game Conservation Association forund some information under loading shotshells with local componets (no handgun data).

Claims that MS200 is near Red Dot and N-320..both available here and on the fast side of pistol powders. MP200 is claimed to be between AA#2 and Unique, which is more to the medium side of puring rate.

SO...the MP200 you use is in the right burning area for pushing those 105's to a good velocity before pressure limits out.

Won't be any direct ratio betwen the powders...can't claim that X% of MP200 will egual this or that powder, but should be able to pull together enough information to make an educated guess.

So...from your end..can you get some listed loads for MP200 using 115gr. or 125gr. 9mm (9x19) rounds?

I was about to tell you what you have told me.

Here goes with the requested loads (out of Somchem's manual)

with 115 gr Jacketed round nose - start 4.5 gr, max 5.0 grn

with 126 gr josyd cast start 3.9 gr, max 4.3 gr

with 147 gr (?) CN/Cast start 3.4, max 3.8 gr

Hope that helps

According to this manual MP200 is very similar to Hodgon's Universal and slightly faster than Unique.
Cheers
P.s. It is the Lee mould

Not very scientific to coss reference like this, but sometimes you are just at a loss for data. In general think the 5.0gr. charge would be acceptable in the .38special with that 105gr. bullet....and on a guess, as everything else runs about the same percentage increase when shifting to the .357mag,... think 8.5gr. would be a max. in the longer/higher pressure case.

Put another way, either of those two loads is listed as safe by Lyman with Bullseye for the 38 and .357....and your powder is slower than Bullseye....so barring any odd events, should be safe enough.

Which still doesn't keep you out of possible trouble...have had manual listed loads lock up revolvers before I got to their max. SO...starting a good bit under and working up (but not passing those limits unless you are SURE) seems apropriate.

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Just as an aside...find in many loading manuals the max. listed charge for a 9mm with a 115gr. bullet is within 10% of the max listed .38specail load (usually non-P+) using a 110gr. JHP (same relationship does NOT hold for heavier weight bullets)....of course, in the big .38 case, with it's excess volume, the pressure level is lower and within .38specail limits....and perfomance lever is different as well.

Rodders:
If your attorneys are half the eager-beavers as they are here, you don't want to use a hand-load for self defense against people. If you do end up shooting someone, they, or their surviving family can sue you. It's pretty easy for an attorney to twist the fact that you hand-load with home-grown bullets, into the notion that you are a mad scientist, gun nut, concocting evil, people smashing loads that rain fire and brimstone onto whomever you point your handgun at.

Darrel