Hi! :)
I'm toying with the idea of shooting cast loads in my model 94.
I'll be using Lee's 170gr. gas-checked design.
Any tips or suggestions on the alloy? Is Lyman #2 OK? What powder would you use for a plinking load and for a hunting load? Is there a lubricant which gives better performance?
PP.

Lyman #2 will work for loads to at least 1850fps, and often a bit more. The Lee 170gr. is a good all-around bullet.

I tend to leave the gas check off for plinking loads...want them to be cheap...and at low vel. there is a chance of leaving a gas check in the bore (not a good thing). For fast loads with cast bullet, still use 3031...haven't seen any reason to change. Would start with 25gr. and work up towards 28-29gr. That's NOT max. pressure, just that you'll start hitting 1900fps near the top load/ For plinking, use a a gas-checkless bullet over 7gr. of Red Dot (I keep a lot of Red Dot on hand for lite 12ga. loads) for about 1050fps.

Can go faster than 1800fps, but it takes a bit of fiddling with alloys to get there.

Is a lot more to lube than just keeping leading down. If you use a luber-sizer, any of the Alox lubes would work...if you just tumble lube in liquid alox, may find a bit of troubnle getting as check to stay on teh bullet without the crimp supplied by a luber-sizer.

Dennis Marshall and I did some articles together back in the 1980s which covered the waterfront on this. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and the RCBS Cast Bullet Handbook, both maybe out of print now, had a variety of articles.

For mild loads without a gascheck, you are better off with softer alloys such as wheelweights, which will obturate better at the lower pressures obtained below the threshold where leading would occur without a gascheck. Best results with fixed ammunition will be in the velocity range from 1080-1350 f.p.s. In a very smooth target barrel with perfect bullet fit, lubrication, etc. the upper threshold for plainbased bullets in breech seated ammunition is about 1450 f.p.s.

Avoid double-based powders which have a higher flame temperature for plainbased loads, except in the very lightest subsonic small game and gallery loads. Best results for light gallery loads below 1200 f.p.s. will be with N320, SR7625, PB and Green Dot. I would avoid Unique with plain-based bullets as it is more prone to leading.

Best results for target, varmint and plinking loads in the .32-40 equivalent range around 1200-1350 f.p.s. where you will get best accuracy will be with 4227, 4198 and RL-7.

Above about 1600 f.p.s. you will need to move to a harder alloy such as Lyman No. 2 unless you have a very smooth barrel. The Saeco #315 is a great bullet in the .30-30.

Lyman #2 will work for loads to at least 1850fps, and often a bit more. The Lee 170gr. is a good all-around bullet.

I tend to leave the gas check off for plinking loads...want them to be cheap...and at low vel. there is a chance of leaving a gas check in the bore (not a good thing). For fast loads with cast bullet, still use 3031...haven't seen any reason to change. Would start with 25gr. and work up towards 28-29gr. That's NOT max. pressure, just that you'll start hitting 1900fps near the top load/ For plinking, use a a gas-checkless bullet over 7gr. of Red Dot (I keep a lot of Red Dot on hand for lite 12ga. loads) for about 1050fps.

Can go faster than 1800fps, but it takes a bit of fiddling with alloys to get there.

Is a lot more to lube than just keeping leading down. If you use a luber-sizer, any of the Alox lubes would work...if you just tumble lube in liquid alox, may find a bit of troubnle getting as check to stay on teh bullet without the crimp supplied by a luber-sizer.

william iorg,
do you shoot cast bullets in your 30/30?

i just started and found it to be a lot of fun.

Yes I do, have for years. my favorite .30-30 is old Model 36 Marlin (pre-war, pre-Micro-groove with 4-groove 10" twist rifling same form as an '03 Springfield, square bolt). I also have a newer octagon barrel 24" Cowboy version with Ballard rifling, which would be my choice in a new rifle, although you can shoot cast in a Microgroove if you have a bullet which either has a long body with a lot of grooves, or an enlarged forepart which is large enough to engage the rifling. The Loverin styles work very well in a Microgroove.

I found that if I zero for my standard jacketed load (150-gr. Winchester Power-Point, 34 grs. RL-15 for 2250 f.p.s. in a 20" barrel) 3" high at 100 yards, for 175-yd. point-blank range, that my general purpose plinking load with either #31141 or Saeco #315 cast of wheelweights, no gascheck, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, sized .311", 14 grs. of 4227, 16 grs. of 4198 or 18 grs. of RL-7 shoots under the bead at 100 yards.

My usual small game load is either the Saeco #325 95-gr. I use in my .32 revolvers or the Ideal #3118 (now #311008) 115 gr. .32-20 bullet with either 4 grs. of Bullseye or 5 grs. of SR-7625, again no gascheck. Very quiet, easy to distinguish from full loads by look or feel in the pocket and shoots only a wee bit low at 25 yards, which is OK as long as you center the bead on the bunny.

I just got a 4-cavity Saeco 150-gr. GC mould #316 which generally resembles #31141 in appearance, with a somewhat shorter body, and it also has promise. This is the 140-gr. Cowboy bullet, but with a GC heel added. The forepart is a bit too small to engage the rifling, so it's limited to light loads, but it is hunting accurate, though not match target accurate, to 1400 f.p.s.

I have a small hoard of gaschecks, but for what they would cost to replace these days I VERY seldom use any. With bulk jacketed bullets being so cheap, I figure if a plainbased bullet won't do the job I throttle up to factory equivalent handloads.

william iorg,
do you shoot cast bullets in your 30/30?

i just started and found it to be a lot of fun.

K Hornet
We shoot cast in the .30-30 too.
There are three "definitive" articles on shooting cast bullets in the .30-30. Ed Harris wrote one for the American Rifleman: Cast bullets in micro groove barrels, Ron Charmicael wrote: "Cast bullets at full speed" for Handloader magazine and Dave Blackwell (Loads From A Disk) wrote an article about cast bullets in his Remington 788. I'll look up the exact titles, magazines and date and post them.
The articles by Dennis Marshal in the Lyman 47th Ed Handbook by Frank Marshal in the 3rd Edition of the Lyman cast bullet handbook are very good.
Our alloy is generally softer than others who post on this board are using. Our mix is softer than wheel weights for light loads and about wheel weight for faster stuff.
Do not overlook Ed Harris comment on Lee liquid Alox lubricant. For most of your .30-30 shooting liquid Alox is all you need. I can still afford those 1 1/2-cent gas checks but I admit that it irks me to spend the price of a primer on a copper cup!
The Lyman 311291 170 grain round nose bullet is my favorite cast bullet for the .30-30. This is not the ideal bullet as it has a large nose. It shoots well in my rifles though. My father likes both the Lyman 311041 and the Lee 170-grain FNGC bullet.
With gas checks I like Alliant Unique. In my 16" Winchester Trapper 7.5 grs of Unique averages 1113 fps with good plinking accuracy. This load had an extreme spread of 29 fps the last time we chronographed it. My Dads 20" Winchester prefers 7.0 grains of Unique with the 311291 and gets 1112 fps with an extreme spread 31 fps. That powder has burned and the gas has expanded pretty quickly!
The 311291 does not shoot as accurately in the Marlin 336 but 8.5 grains of Unique gets 1233 fps with an extreme spread of 7 fps the last time we looked at it. This load shoots very well in this rifle.
The interesting thing about these loads is that they all produce over 30% efficiency by Dr. Howell's formula. With between four and five hundred foot pounds of energy they are good loads.
Alliant Reloader 7 does well with the 311291 in the Winchester Trapper. 25.0 grains of RL 7 gives 1864 fps. The extreme spreads are getting quite a bit higher with this load but it shoots very well. In the same rifle 24.5 grains of IMR 4198 gave us 1907 fps and good accuracy.
With Lee molds you can get started for a pretty small investment. If you encounter leading it generally brushes out without a lot of effort. As Ed Harris said, below 1800 fps almost any lubricant and alloy combination will work. He wrote a very good discussion about lead alloy on this board a few months ago. Do a search for his posts and you will gather a lot of information in the shortest possible time.

Haven't noticed any leading with palin based bullets (or gas-checkless gas check bullets) cast of WW and pushed along at 1400fps by Red Dot...but I prefer 1200fps for most of my indoor practice. Guess one trick, if you don't mid the smoke it causes, is to tumble lube and then set them base up to dry. The even coat of liquid alox on the base seems to help...but as stated, is does tend to smoke a bit.

Lots of variables in getting lead bullets to shoot well...diameter seems to be one place where new shooters have a problem. Given a choice, would much prefer a bullet .002" larger than bore diameter than one smaller.
--------
So I get bored and cast a pile of 130gr. PB bullets (and I use them at .310"). Make a collet and chucked 1/2 of them and lathe a gas check base onto them. Shot side by side, there really wasn't any differnce in accuracy until 1300fps...from then on, the gas check bullets keep on shooting well. Eventually ran them up to 1800fps, but that was the limit of WW's (no treated) strenght.

Here are the articles you need to start off right.

Cast bullet Accuracy by Wayne Blackwell. This from Hanloader Magazine

C.E. Harris wrote Micro Groove Barrels Will Perform in the July 1982 issue of the American rifleman pg. 40

Cast Bullets at Full Speed in the .30-30 by Ron Carmichael was in Hanloader #176 pg 28 Aug/Sept 1995

Norm johnson has an article on-line at Schuttzen.net entitles Marlins Micro Groove and cast bullets that is very usefull.

Another very good article for reduced loads is Frank Marshall Jr's Unpositioned Powder Performance in the American Rifleman June 1981 issue pg 12. This one is very useful for powder selection.