I have been told that it is possible to use a modern shotgun powder, say Green Dot in one of the new inline muzzleloaders. Can anyone here verify this or has anyone actually tried it? I have loaded centerfires for years but know little or nothing about shotgun powders and muzzleloaders.

Don't know about Green Dot - The Savage in-line is capable of using some of the faster burning rifle powders, WITHIN REASON!

Matter of fact, Indiana is now considering banning the use of smokeless powders in muzzleloaders. Naturally, Savage is leading the opposition to the proposal.

Thanks KDUB for the info....I went to the Savage website and found most of what I needed. And more here

http://www.tjgeneralstore.com/savage_loads.htm

Don't know about Green Dot - The Savage in-line is capable of using some of the faster burning rifle powders, WITHIN REASON!

Matter of fact, Indiana is now considering banning the use of smokeless powders in muzzleloaders. Naturally, Savage is leading the opposition to the proposal.

Good for Indiana - Arizona has the restriction on Black Powder or Equivilent - its a good thing.

When I saw this posting my blood rain cold the worst thing about choosing a smokeless powder for muzzleloaders is that the best powder is also the most dangerous in the gun. Most handloaders out there know that you do not reduce the powder charging in magnum pistol loads what happens is with the volume of airspace inside the case is increased it allows for a primer flashover which ignites all the powder at once well I can hear your mind clicking right now there is no open space in a muzzleloader. This is what happens that makes it so dangerous when you seat your projectile on your powder charging you have no way of clapping it there so if there is a hanging fire which is basically, the primer explodes but the powder does not ignite instantly the projectile is drove down the barrel several inches then the powder ignites in this situation I don't want to say that the pressure doubles but god only knows what the increase is. Also when you are using a maximum charge and of black powder or its equivalent the most pressure your gun is expected to see is probably around 15,000 P.S. I, I have a feeling that this savage model 10 ll is operating at pressure levels around 55,000 P.S. I or basically the same pressure as a 30/06. Even if you start light with your loads of smokelesspowder then increased 1 gr. at a time, while shooting over a crono by that time you reach the velocities equaling 150 gr. of black powder your pressure levels in your gun will have doubled or tripled whats allowed in blackpowder guns if you are not using a crono the way to tell when you reach your maximum load is to compare your gun to the gun in the photograph.

Y'Know I just don't understand it.
If you want to shoot modern powder--Buy a modern gun.
Then give the muzzel loader to some one who will VALUE it.
I have seen the result of fools trying to shoot modern.....IT ain't pretty.
Paladin

Savage has truly built a modern firearm with it's introduction of the ML II. With barrels that are proof-tested at over 100,000 P.S.I. this places the Savage at the head of the muzzleloading manufacturers in terms of safety. With the use of truly smokeless powder, I believe, it leads the way in power and performance. Concerning the IDNR trying to ban smokeless powder use in muzzleloaders, this referendum has been dropped from further discussion. This is IMO great not only for Savage users, but, also the users of Hodgen 777. I live and hunt in Indiana. I use a Savage ML. It is a tremendous improvement in muzzleloading for me. Better accuracy-More power-Less clean-up. Savage has raised the bar in the muzzleloading industry.

It is a tremendous improvement in muzzleloading for me. Better accuracy-More power-Less clean-up. Savage has raised the bar in the muzzleloading industry.

So my take is that you think the 45-70 in Muzzleloader form is an improvement over the traditional muzzleloader. So why not just buy a 45-70 or 30-06?

Not a bad idea...and it should draw usesr from the in-line fans but traditinalist aren't going to line up to buy one. See the potential for more serious accidents by the more-powder-is-always-better believers...but that's just Darwin in action.

So my take is that you think the 45-70 in Muzzleloader form is an improvement over the traditional muzzleloader. So why not just buy a 45-70 or 30-06?

Hunting restrictions in Indiana don't allow centerfire rifles, but, they do allow centerfire pistols...(ie) TC Encore with 14" Barrel .243 caliber on up. The "traditional" muzzleloader is a great stepping stone in America's heritage. I own and enjoy shooting my flintlock. I don't enjoy cleaning my gun in the bathtub. The Savage is an improvement to muzzeloading. This doesn't lessen the "traditional" muzzleloader or shooter. With the introduction of the Savage more options are now available to the shooting public, whether it be for hunting or recreational shooting. This is IMO, a very good thing.

Isn't the point of using a muzzle loader to make it more difficult for the hunter?
If that is the case, why would you wish to make it easier.

Probably was the idea when the special seasons started. Personally, don't much care, most of my muzzle loading hunting is done right in the middle of the normal season...people either like to muzzle load or only use it as a way to hunt that special season.

For good or bad, that special season was probably the prime driving force in in-line development. The smokeless Savage is just anohter step in in-line development.

Personally, could care less if the specail season's were removed...would still hunt with a muzzle loader.

Isn't the point of using a muzzle loader to make it more difficult for the hunter?
If that is the case, why would you wish to make it easier.

If easier means less trauma to the species hunted, then by all means yes. More energy at impact and improved trajectory means more humane kills.

Mind you I am not picking on the savage, my point was the savage is the only muzzleloader truly designed to take the pressures of smokeless powder. I have seen the list of powder's used in the 10ML II, they are all magnum pistol powder's but they do have some rifle applications I imagine there will be more data for slower burning powder's in the savage sometime in the future, the point I was trying to make is the only safe way for you to work up a load of smokeless powder in a muzzleloader, (if it's not a savage) is to let someone else do it in a location were you are not or not to do it at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In my area there is to be a muzzle loaders only season starting a week before rifle season.

I used to hunt with a modern rifle, but gave it up because of the hoards of rifle hunters who flocked to our area every year.(most of whom only picked up their rifle for that week each year)
The other reason I quit rifle season was the number of deer wounded and lost by rifle hunters.

I would be willing to bet that there are far fewer deer wounded and lost by muzzle loader hunters just because those hunters are willing to put in the time and effort to be sure of a kill.

In my view modern rifles, like many modern conveniences have made hunting attractive for so called hunters who would otherwise never bother.

I believe that in the US you have a pre season where one can use a black powder rifle on game, before the modern rifles come out, is this the case or am I missreading it? In Oz our natives are allowed to do a traditional hunt on otherwise protected game, BUT!! they may only use only traditional weapons, IE: spear and club or native trap.
Is this the purpose of your pre season?
If so then is it not defeating the logic using "Modern In lines"
as these abominations of tradition are neither M/L or breach.
Inlines are not common in Oz, as they can not be used on black powder ranges, nor are they a real firearm (traditional)
I know this will raise the hair on the back of some of your necks but be honest.........ARE THEY?
As for power of impact, give me a break, two days ago I was using my .50 cal (380 gr hollow base slug on top of 75 gr 2F Swiss) testing a new tang sight, I was shooting at a 150 yd target, my son noticed, when we checked the score, the slugs were passing through the 1 inch board and also passing clean through a red gum tree of 8 inch 15 feet behind, in fact you could see right through the tree. how much impact do you want?.....and yes we did move the target, not into killing trees.
Paladin

Muzzle-loader seasons vary by state. In general, yes you get additional time to hunt either before or after the regular rifle season. But each state will have it's own regulations. Some flintlock only, some flint or traditional percussion, some roundballs only, some conicals or roundballs.... you get the idea. It gets complicated.

I'm not aware of any species that could be only hunted with primitive weapons like you describe, save for perhaps a few whales and such taken by eskimos.

You gotta understand, what sells over here is the sizzle, not the steak..... yes 'regular' muzzle-loaders can be quite powerful, no doubt about it.

Things change...

Twenty years ago when I started hunting with muzzle loaders here in my state, less than 300 tags were sold. You could hunt all season and not see another hunter. If you stood in a gun shop and suggested the use of scopes, you would have been laughed right out the door. No way they would allow scopes during Muzzle loader season, no way.

Fast forward 20 years and you see anything is allowed except for conversions to make a modern shotgun into a muzzle loader. Why?

We have an increasing deer herd, Everyone knows someone who is or has suffered from Lyme disease. Increasing property damage, auto collisions have more than quatropled. At the same time our ranks (hunters) have shrunk and continue to do so. This all has caused our once "primative" season to evolve into a very necessary method to try to control our deer herd. We harvest more animals in it than we do in our regular shotgun season.

If so then is it not defeating the logic using "Modern In lines"as these abominations of tradition are neither M/L or breach.Inlines are not common in Oz, as they can not be used on black powder ranges, nor are they a real firearm (traditional)
I know this will raise the hair on the back of some of your necks but be honest.........ARE THEY?
Paladin

In relation to Australia's gun laws (is the Savage) a banned firearm? I understood that only self-loading type firearms were banned. The Savage ML that I own does in fact load from the muzzle end.

In relation to Australia's gun laws (is the Savage) a banned firearm? I understood that only self-loading type firearms were banned. The Savage ML that I own does in fact load from the muzzle end.

No Gene they are not on the banned list, The objection is my opinion, but they are not allowed to be used (as Far as I know) in any black powder range competitions in Oz.
They were only "invented" for the US market to get around your game rules, and I will always consider them NON firearms.
Sorry if I offend but it is only my opinion, so what ever you shoot enjoy it, while you still can.
Paladin

Atta'boys. go at it. Keep up the infighting. The anti-hunter's and anti-gunners love it when we do their work for them.

America was built on freedom of choice. Chose your weapon and then fight for the right of the other guy to chose and use his WHATEVER he chooses to shoot. Remember the words of one of our founding fathers. "If we do not hang together, it is certain that we shall all hang separately".