im posting this for a friend of mine.

Is a 9mm good as a self Defense gun? if so what bullets would you suggest. he has an older Browning Hi Power 9mm thought any suggestions for guns would be nice. and he says "i like the browning because having 15 shots is a comfort." any ideas?

I think the 9mm with the right ammunition is suitable for self defense. I personally would not consider the 147 grain bullet in this caliber. I know the high round capacity may be a comfort but becoming proficient with whatever weapon use choose would be a much bigger comfort. The best weapon and caliber in the world won't be much good if you can't use it effectively and instinctively.

Yeah, the 9mm is fine. A greater issue with many older semi's is they sometimes have trouble feeding anything but mil spec ball ammo. I do not know specifically about the Browning but your friend may want to start with good hollowpoint ammo with a rounder bullet profile. Then he has to function test it for reliability. Then learn how to survive a gunfight. My thought about the 15 rounds is statistical. If you can't achieve the desired results in the first 5 or 6 rounds, another 10 rounds will be of little help. Like everything else, it's the operator much more than the tool.

Just my 2 cents worth................. Bill

Where's Zeppelin when you need him? :D

Chuckle!
The dinosaur is stumbling around, once again.
Way back when men were men and the ladies were happy with it, the folks in the know used 45s or 44s. I really don't think the people hundred and forty years ago were all that much tougher then we are now?
So, how come, why for. do us puny twenty-first century wusses only require a 35 caliber mouse gun to put us down? You suppose it has something with us being liberated and equal, that reads just the same, as the ladies?
I think I've been insulted! I want the other guy to think that any firearm less then a 155mm would be ineffectual to putting me down.
Great Jumping Jahosephat, some weinie shoots me with a 9mm mad?, real mad, I'd be totally aggrevated and inspired to show him some of the alternative uses for that mouse gun, like a suppository.
If you have to use the 9mm for self defense, the P-35/Highpower is one of the best. That way when you use up your 15 shots and have one very unreasonable individual to deal with, you can beat the son..........into submission with that fine piece of Belgium steel.
I've always thought all 9mms should come with bayonet lugs.
Ok, I'll shuffle on off and see about my arrangments for becoming a fossil.
Jim

9mm is okay for self defense. Just use the good stuff, cheap ball ammo is just for practice. Allow me to cast the sole dissenting vote on the Hi-Power, though. I never handled one of these things that didn't draw blood, from me!! I'm actually getting quite fond of the Ruger P-89. I never thought I'd ever say that in public!! I only carry 9mm when I need a small, very concealable pistol. Hearth and home are protected by 45 ACP & 12 gauge... ==Bob

I'd rather have something with a bit more authority, but a 9mm is far better than nothing. Being that I'm a 1911 fan, I like the Hi-Power. As was stated by others, reliable function is an essential in any defense pistol...so you're friend would be well advised to make sure his pistol will feed good defensive ammo. If it won't run through three magazines, the first three magazines, every time you fire it without a glitch I would get it fixed or pursue another weapon. The expensive specialty ammo is great, but you need to shoot more than a box of it to determine if it will work in your pistol. For a defensive pistol you should make the first three mags worth of practice with your chosen ammo in my opinion, but it's just that...my opinion. If you friend wants to carry a Hi-Power for self defense, he MUST be comfortable with cocked and locked carry, something that many shooters are not comfortable with. I love single action autos, but you need to have a round in the chamber and have the hammer back at all times to make them useful for quick action. The bad guy isn't going to wait for you to rack the slide to even things up.

im posting this for a friend of mine.

Is a 9mm good as a self Defense gun? if so what bullets would you suggest. he has an older Browning Hi Power 9mm thought any suggestions for guns would be nice. and he says "i like the browning because having 15 shots is a comfort." any ideas?

A Hi-Power is a fantastic gun, almost nothing fits my hand better or is easier to shoot, this side of a .22 anyway.

I'd use Cor-Bon ammo, if it will feed reliably. Then practice, practice, practice.....

Another thought on the 9mm. If you want to be sure it'll get the job done, and it has in many instances, you can adjust your practice for a technique I believe was created as a result of the popularity of the 9mm. Using a body silhouette target, or a IDPA/IPSC target, practice the "insurance drill". That consists of a double tap to the center chest and one in the head. I can do it with a 9mm 1911 in about the amount of time it takes to say "double tap" at a normal rate at 7 yards. If two to the chest and one to the head won't work with a 9mm, I'd throw the gun at the perp and run.

I'm actually getting quite fond of the Ruger P-89.

WOW... :eek: I had one and it was a jam-o-matic. I got rid of it after trying UMC, Wolf, Winchester, and a couple different reloads.

Guess I got a lemon..... :confused:

I noticed that you said this was an older hi-power.

Some of the Military quality guns can be reluctant to feed hollowpoints, more notably the wider mouth varitey.

While you are practicing, do a functionality check on your load and magazines, so you'll know of any compatibility problems on the front end.

Remington hollowpoints have a ogive that is close to ball ammo, and do tend to feed better than most in military quality guns.

Nice gun, though, and surely adequate fo what you want it to do.

Good shooting, be careful.

The Browning Hi-Power is a classic and no slouch in any sense. I almost bought one about 10 years ago, still don't know why I didn't. I just kick myself for it now. I am currently carrying a Springfield Armory XD-9 for a duty weapon. I have 2 ten round mags (that came with the gun) and 2 seventeen round mags that are offered by SA. All total I carry 55 rounds of ammo at the ready on me, all in a smaller and lighter package than my old .45 auto.

The advancement in bullet designs in the last decade have brought a lot of the 'so-so' calibers into the 'good-fight-stopper' realm, the 9mm being one of them. I am using Speer 124 grain Gold Dot hollowpoint ammo for duty. They have a rather large opening in the nose so some testing for reliable feeding should be in order. The Speer round is a good performer and priced decently too.

If you are into reloading, I have loaded some Remington jacketed hollowpoints (115 gr.) and find they have a good rounded nose profile that will provide reliable feeding. The hollowpoint design also goes a long way in trying to prevent over-penetration

Arkypete,

:D How dare you reveal my past thought process! Guess we are both getting older. I remember thinking the smallest thing I'd carry was a 6" 357 mag and my prefererred carry was a full size 1911. Why, anything smaller was not better than a spit ball!!! Only a weenie would carry a snub nosed revolver. Of course, the only thing my thought process got me, was I did not carry most days since concealment was impracticle for my work. My standards were so "high" and I might add dumb, that rather than carry something, I usually carried nothing. Finally, in my 40's, I realized I was better protected with something I could carry concealed ALL the time and give up a little of those "high" standards. That turned out to be the dreaded snub nosed revolver. The constant companion you hope to never need but is there anyway. The one that still shoots no matter how long it's been in your pocket and does not care a whit what factory ammo I put in it. So, thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Bill

... you know, I have been thinking about designing an ankle holster for my 7 1/2" Ruger Rehawk....

"how about one of these.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=25GPRL&category=Pistol

Or is .25 ACP too weak?"

as for me personally im going to sound stupid but whats a tip up barrel..?

The barrel has a hinge at the muzzle and the entre barrel 'tips up' from the rest of the gun for loading (to expose the chamber). Naturally, the barrel isn't covered by the slide like say on a M1911.

A great feature for those with limited grip strength who might otherwise have problems racking the slide on an auto pistol.

The BEST thing about .25 autos, aside from the the fact that they are a firearm, is that you can carry 5-10 of them instead of extra magazines with ease. The 9mm is a legitimate round, forgive me Zeppy, but the .25ACP provides less power than the .22LR in many loadings. There are better choices in the sub-compact arena than the .25. My take on the .25 is that you'd be better off to learn how to throw a knife or rock, practice would be cheaper at least.

If a 9mm is the one you will be the most comfortable with (like me), and thus will practice the most with, and become proficient, then the 9mm is the best defensive gun for you.
Larger stopping power means nothing if you're not comfortable with the gun, handling recoil, enjoying practicing with it often, etc, to become good with it.
I foolishly bought a Glock 23 .40 before trying one, and did not like it even slightly. I found the recoil to annoying, and this particular one I bought fired the casings right back into my face more often than not, and had no consistent pattern to the directions they went at all. I rented a Beretta 92FS 9mm and loved it, so I bought one of those. I like it far better than any of the other Glocks I rented and tried. I didn't find a single Glock that I liked.

Bottom line: if you can, rent guns and try them out before deciding on one.

Two situations: A man was held up a few years back by three thugs who pulled a gun on him. When told to get his wallet, he reached in his back pocket with his left hand, and in his right pants pocket with his right hand. He pulled a .22 semi and shot the one holding a gun on him twice in the face. That one died on the scene, the others ran. 2: My neighbor, who used to work in a convenience store noticed that her co-worker hadn't returned from emptying the trash. She took her handgun and went out. She found a young person with a gun holding her co-worker. She told him to drop the gun and turn around, that she had a gun. He turned and shot her six times. I really think its not always so much what you carry, but you gotta be ready to use it, whatever it is. The man took care of business with a .22, but no caliber would have made any difference for my neighbor, since she wasn't ready (or really willing) to shoot.

I go with the original post. I am thinking of a
Beretta 92f in 9mm for 2 reasons. Ammunition is cheap for practice and the hydra-shock 148 grn
bullets should do the job. I can^t afford to shoot much if my rounds cost me 45 cents each. I feel the 9mm is fine and am still considering the Beretta. If it is good enough for the boys, and girls, in sand heaven, it is good enough for me.

The BEST thing about .25 autos, aside from the the fact that they are a firearm, is that you can carry 5-10 of them instead of extra magazines with ease. The 9mm is a legitimate round, forgive me Zeppy, but the .25ACP provides less power than the .22LR in many loadings. There are better choices in the sub-compact arena than the .25. My take on the .25 is that you'd be better off to learn how to throw a knife or rock, practice would be cheaper at least.


So would it better to get that some gun in .22LR?

As to testing with hollowpoints, most of the older guns were designed to work with ball ammo only, so the first thing I'd do is get the gun to a good pistolsmith for a checkup, and then see if it can benefit from "Throating", to aid in feeding ammo with a different profile. And don't trust just anyone with the work, there are lots of 'smiths that specialize in the Browning P-35. This is serious business, and only RELIABLE weapons are to be considered. Check your magazines, too!
PJ

So would it better to get that some gun in .22LR?
No, it would be better to get something larger than the .25 auto...both make poor choices for self defence in my book. The minimum i would even consider for self defence is a .380 loaded HOT with some serious hollow points. I carry a bersa thunder .380 with some of my handloaded "defence loads" and feel very comfortable that i could stop most anyone with it if i ever had too. It was VERY inexpensive(can easily be found for under 200 bucks) very small and conceilable, and so far has proven to be super reliable. I havent met anyone who hasnt been happy with their Bersa. But in all reality, you would be better off with something larger, like a 9mm, 40S&W, etc. Bigger the bullet, the bigger the hole your gonna make and the better chances your gonna stop whatever is coming after you in my opinion.

Is a 9mm good as a self Defense gun? if so what bullets would you suggest. he has an older Browning Hi Power 9mm thought any suggestions for guns would be nice. and he says "i like the browning because having 15 shots is a comfort." any ideas?

If you're talking about self defense in the house, a 9mm Hi Power is better than nothing, but I'd rather have a 12 gauge shotgun. You get 9 of the same size projectiles with every round you fire. That's better than a machine gun. If you're talking about carrying it outside the house, I'd rather have a bigger bullet and a double/single action gun without a manual safety, or a Glock type gun. I stopped carrying hollowpoints after I shot a guy through light cover and several layers of clothes multiple times in the 10 ring with a popular brand of high performance 9mm rounds and he laughed at me at the hospital. I want a big bullet that's going to make a big hole going in, and can do it through several layers of clothes and some light cover. For me, that means a .45 ACP, .45 Long Colt, or .44 mag.

ok, i think your nuts if you carry a .44 mag for SD. Over penetration is a problem. not to mention the .357 has a better one shot stop.

ok, i think your nuts if you carry a .44 mag for SD. Over penetration is a problem. not to mention the .357 has a better one shot stop.

Over penetration has never really been much of a concern for me. If I don't have a reasonably clear backstop, I don't shoot. Also, I wouldn't trust any bullet, or my shooting to the extent that I would take a shot with someone I didn't want to shoot standing behind my target, or behind the drywall behind my target, and I'm a pretty good shot. I've only seen one shooting where "over" penetration was an issue, and I'm pretty sure that one involved a .38. A retired cop fired one round at a guy in a car. The driver was found later dead at the wheel, shot through the neck, with his passenger dead next to him with the same round in his chest. Kind of interesting....Here's the story:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2608035/detail.html

Police: Bar Owner Kills Two Robbers With Single Shot
Wayne County Prosecutor To Review Alleged Robbery, Shooting

POSTED: 8:03 p.m. EST November 3, 2003
UPDATED: 8:09 p.m. EST November 3, 2003

Two suspected robbers are dead after a former police officer and owner of a Detroit bar fired a single shot, Local 4 reported.
Video


Archive: Family Searches For Answers In Fatal Shooting





The robbery and shooting happened early Sunday or late Saturday at Adela's place on the city's southwest side.

Police say the 49-year-old woman who owned the restaurant -- a retired Detroit cop who was a former member of Mayor Coleman Young's security team -- tried to hold the suspects in the parking lot until police arrived. But when the two men attempted to speed away, and nearly ran over one of her employees, she fired a single shot that apparently struck both men, according to police.

"We've had some robberies in that area. We have some evidence now that may indicate that someone was robbed there and assaulted there. There attempted to be another assault against one of the employees, before the owner of this establishment fired one shot in an attempt to stop a fleeing felon," said Detroit police Inspector Marilyn Hall-Beard.

The two men -- Dorian Gordillo, 22, and Rosalio Becera, 33 -- were later found dead from a bullet wound in a car parked on the Interstate 75 service drive, according to police.

One of the men was reportedly still holding a beer in his hand.

Family members of Gordillo and Becera were initially confused over their deaths, Local 4 reported.

"He was a very good guy. He would never look for trouble. I don't understand what happened. I hope we can find some answers," said Barbara Gordillo, the sister-in-law of one of the victims.

Officers who had responded to the incident at the bar wrote down the description of the car that left the scene and later made a match with the vehicle in which Gordillo and Becera were found dead, Local 4 reported.

While the shooting appeared to be justified, the Wayne County prosecutor was expected to review the case to determine if the bar owner would face charges.

Here's another good article.....It was a .38...

LIVING WITH KILLING: Ex-cop never had fired at anyone, but this time, she says she had to

December 16, 2003







BY CECIL ANGEL
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER




Adela Rivera never fired her gun at anyone in 20 years as a Detroit police officer.

Now a Detroit bar owner, she fired it recently. Once. The single bullet killed two men, who police say were attempting to run over her manager after they had been assaulting and robbing customers in the bar's parking lot.

The shooting has left a number of people reeling. Rivera says she is depressed that she took the lives of two people. And the men's families are asking why Rivera has been cleared by prosecutors and police.

"I never thought I'd . . . I would kill two people," said Rivera, 49. "It was a tragedy. It was a terrible tragedy, and I'm sorry it happened."

Barbara Gordillo, the sister-in-law of one of the men said: "How could she just kill two people and get away with it? I think the cops covered for her. I really do believe it."

Rivera owns Adela's Place, a neighborhood bar she opened six years ago on a lonely stretch of Fort Street in southwest Detroit, where on Nov. 1 she had the fatal encounter withDorian Gordillo, 22, and Rosalio Becerra-Santoyo, 31, both of Detroit.

The following is according to Rivera and police:

It started out like any other Saturday night.

Adela's Place is a former country-and-Western bar that caters mostly to Mexican immigrants. Patrons danced to the house band, Fantasia, under dimmed lights. Rivera worked the door, checking IDs.

Suddenly, a man, who looked injured, ran past Rivera and straight to Salvador Cuevo, the manager, who was behind the bar.

"Salvador comes and grabs me at the door and says they're robbing customers outside, let's go," Rivera recalled.

As Rivera and Cuevo rushed out, a second customer ran past them.

Detroit police homicide investigator Barbara Higgins said one of the victims said Gordillo and Becerra-Santoyo were sitting in Gordillo's black Dodge Neon, claiming they needed help with a flat tire.

When the man approached, Gordillo and Becerra-Santoyo left the car, grabbed the man by the neck and hit him in the back of the head with a beer bottle. They both demanded money.

Upon seeing Rivera and Cuevo, Gordillo and Becerra-Santoyo jumped back into the car, which was pointed toward the parking lot gate.

"I'm trying to pull the driver out of the car, and I saw Salvador on the passenger side, and then I saw him run to the front of the car," Rivera said.

She pulled out a .38-caliber Smith & Wesson that was tucked in her waistband.

Cuevo was standing 10 feet in front of the car, trying to get the remote control to close the gate.

Rivera noticed Gordillo had put the car in drive and, she said, stepped on the gas.

"All of a sudden, the car just went, and there was no place for Salvador to go," Rivera said.

She fired her gun. Just once.

The bullet entered the left side of Gordillo's neck, just below his ear, according to the Wayne County medical examiner. It punctured his throat, exited the right side of his jaw and slammed into the left side of Becerra-Santoyo's chest, near the nipple.

The wounded Gordillo kept driving. He missed Cuevo by 2 feet as he sped through the gate, which had closed only halfway.

The car was found about 2:30 a.m. Nov. 2 by an off-duty Detroit police officer at McKinstry and the I-75 service drive, about four blocks away. The driver was slumped over the wheel, his door open and one foot sticking out. The passenger was sitting upright with a bottle of Bud Light in his hand. Both men were dead.

According to autopsy reports, Gordillo and Becerra-Santoyo had been drinking. Gordillo's blood-alcohol level was 0.14, and Becerra-Santoyo's was 0.20. In Michigan, 0.08 is the blood alcohol level at which someone can be convicted of drunken driving.

Both tested negative for drugs.

Cleared but not forgotten
The Wayne County Prosecutor's Office determined the shooting was justified.

The key evidence was a videotape from a security camera that supported what Rivera and witnesses told police.

Higgins, the police investigator, said she explained to the families of the dead men that "you have a legal right to defend your life or that of another."

Despite being cleared, Rivera has mixed emotions.

"If I thought I did something wrong, I might feel worse. But in my heart, I know that I did what I had to do," she said.

She would like to meet with the men's families to talk with them about the shooting.

Rivera wants the families to understand the kind of person she is, she said, such as that she runs her bar like a home-away-from-home for her customers.

On Sept. 16, Rivera hurried from her bar to help the driver three young men had saved from his burning tanker on I-75. Rivera made sure EMS was on the way, and she called the driver's wife.

One of 15 children of a Puerto Rican father and a French mother, Rivera has lived in southwest Detroit since she was a child. She dropped out of the University of Michigan in 1977 after her mother died so she could support her family. She joined the force that same year. Eventually, she graduated from U-M in 1990 with a degree in social psychology. Among her jobs as a cop were 10 years on Mayor Coleman Young's security squad. The families still are searching for answers.

What puzzles them most is how anyone could say their loved ones were robbing people. They didn't have any money on them when their bodies were found. Detroit police said the men did not have criminal records in the United States.

"They said she has a video. Let me see the video," Barbara Gordillo said. "We asked several times to see the video."

The videotape is considered evidence and is not available to the public because no charges have been filed.

The men, who family members described as best buddies, were buried in their hometown of Leon Guanajuato in northern Mexico after funerals in Detroit.

Dorian Gordillo was the youngest of 11 children, who are split between Mexico and Detroit. He had been in the United States for five years, all of them in Detroit. He worked in a factory that made auto parts and loved to spend time listening to Chalio Sanchez and other Mexican singers, said Barbara Gordillo.

"He was a good guy -- always stayed to himself. Very quiet," she said.

Juan Becerra, 26, said his brother was married and had two children, a 5-year-old girl and an 8-year-old boy. He had been in Detroit for four years and worked for a contractor fixing up houses.

Barbara Gordillo said she's hired a lawyer to help her family get access to the videotape, which remains in police custody. If the family views the tape, "then we will understand. Then I will know what really happened," she said.

"Show me that he was doing something wrong so I can feel better," she said.

Said Rivera: "I just keep telling myself I didn't have a choice. It was either they were going to kill Salvador or I had to stop them. I think if everybody saw the tape, they would understand."




Contact CECIL ANGEL at 313-223

"how about one of these.

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=25GPRL&category=Pistol

Or is .25 ACP too weak?"

as for me personally im going to sound stupid but whats a tip up barrel..?

I've got a good true story about .25acp. Here in my hometown, someone went into a convenience store. When they returned and got in their vehicle, someone was hiding in the back seat. The robber drew a .25 auto and held it to the drivers head and told them to drive down a back road. After they got several miles away, the bad guy told them to pull over, and made them lay face down on the ground.
The driver laid down expecting the person to take the vehicle and drive off, but insted the robber shot him in the back of the head, and then drove away.
After the bad guy drove away, the man stood up, reached back and removed the bullet that had barely broken the skin on his scalp, and then called the police.
He described his attacker who was caught and arrested.

I used to own a .25. The first handgun I ever bought. Fire it once, and then spend 15 seconds trying to remove the mangled shell casing from the action. One shot may go off with reasonable power, the next may be so weak that a BB gun would do more damage. I sold the stupid thing to a friend for $25, and said I would never own another.

I guess it would be better than nothing, but that's about the best I can say for it.

A small coment..... according to all the stopping-power statistics(sanow etc.) the federal nyclad 124 gr. is the best standard pressure 9mm out there and it is also the only hollowpoint that has reliable expansion after being fired through clothing(fired into clad and un-clad balistic gelatin it shows close to equal expansion for both scenarios).....

Given that we are talking an old HP i wouldn´t fire corbons or other +p through it with any regularity.....

Z

As I have said in other places in this forum, I LOVE my Browning Hi-Power. I know that others have had some feeding/jamming problems, but I never have. I also have 3 high cap mags(aftermarket 17 rounds) that I carry (they balance the Bianchi shoulder holster very nicely) or just one if I am carrying in my waistband/pocket. As for hammer bite, it very rarely happens to me, but it could be a problem for someone who holds the gun differently. And as for carrying cocked and locked, is there any other way? I usually carry with the hammer down, so it doesn't get hung on clothing, but you will only find my firearm with an empty chamber when it is being cleaned. As my grandfather used to say, an unloaded gun is just a badly shaped hammer...... :)

Also, I am soooo glad to see that the much maligned 9mm (how can a gun that was so popular a few years ago, be overlooked so much today?) can still generate so much interest. IMHO it is ideal because of capacity, comfort, cost, and yes, even ballistics (with the right load). :cool:

Does anybody else find all this "best ammo for self-defense" a bit tiresome? Unless you're looking for trouble or happen to frequent disreputable parts of town on a regular basis for some reason or another, I don't think it matters a hoot in **** what caliber you have.

The chances of such a violent encounter are slim.
The chances that once the lead starts flying that it will matter whether you've got a 9mm or a .45 are even slimmer. We can analyze the infamous Miami shootout out the whazzoo and you won't convince me that a more "manly" .40 or .45 cal round would have necessarily changed the outcome.

I've yet to see a story about some citizen who ended up on the losing end of a violent exchange with some comment stating that "if only he had been using a .40 or .45 instead of that wimpy 9mm, he'd still be alive today. Or if he had just used +P ammo instead of the regular stuff, things would have turned out differently."

(But I guess if there's any stories like that out there, I'm about to find out about them. :D )

There, I've had my say. Now I'm going to go buy my 9mm and take the wife and kids and wear it out for 30 or 40% less than the .40. (No, I'm not going to buy ammo in 1000/2500/10 gazillion round bulk! :eek: So don't even suggest it.)

I just want a handgun to shoot and have fun just because certain elements of our society want to tell me I shouldn't be able to own one. So lock and load, I'll be blasting away and all the time knowing that I am seriously irritating some freedom-stealers in other parts of society. :p May just have to send them a picture of me and my 7, 11 and 13 year olds blasting away at the range. That'll really send 'em into orbit!

In most cases the 9mm will work just fine, I carried a 9mm Beretta for 20 years, but the problem I found with the 9mm is, zips through anything and keeps going, in a crowded situation you may hit your mark, but it also may go through your victim and hit a Innocent bye-stander behind your victim, not good. I have read reports of charging crazed nuts digesting many rounds of nines before showing any signs of being hit, I remember a true situation where the FBI cornered a criminal, the criminal had a gov 45 for his defense ageist the FBI,this was up close and dangerous situation, before he was killed he shot 4 FBI agents dead ,even after having ten 9mm rounds in his chest, the shot that killed him was a head shot, this woke up the FBI and made them realize this cart was not the best for a quick kill,less forgiving if the shot placement was not true, mind you this criminal was a very big man over 280 pounds, but still, If they hit him with a 45 once in the chest he would of been popping daisy's fast;) Like I always say there are better tools in the chest for house protection, this is why I went with the Glock 40S&W compact, well proving to be better than the nine hands down and right behind the 45 in up close power, I think Meplat has allot to do with shocking power to the body,For the most part humans die easy compared to animals. I don't remember many people digesting a 45 acp and getting back up;) The nine is a Little small and a little too fast, maybe with the new bullets of today, like the Golddot/XTP may be better than what we had even five years ago. Sometime just a good old revolver 357 works well using JHP's and easy to operate under stressful situations, you don't really need a 10 to 15 rounds for home defense, 6 should work fine, if the criminal can digest 6 357 rounds look for a window and jump and run;) LOL...Aim small hit small. RAMbo.

In most cases the 9mm will work just fine, I carried a 9mm Beretta for 20 years, but the problem I found with the 9mm is, zips through anything and keeps going, in a crowded situation you may hit your mark, but it also may go through your victim and hit a Innocent bye-stander behind your victim, not good. I have read reports of charging crazed nuts digesting many rounds of nines before showing any signs of being hit, I remember a true situation where the FBI cornered a criminal, the criminal had a gov 45 for his defense ageist the FBI,this was up close and dangerous situation, before he was killed he shot 4 FBI agents dead ,even after having ten 9mm rounds in his chest, the shot that killed him was a head shot, this woke up the FBI and made them realize this cart was not the best for a quick kill,less forgiving if the shot placement was not true, mind you this criminal was a very big man over 280 pounds, but still, If they hit him with a 45 once in the chest he would of been popping daisy's fast;) Like I always say there are better tools in the chest for house protection, this is why I went with the Glock 40S&W compact, well proving to be better than the nine hands down and right behind the 45 in up close power, I think Meplat has allot to do with shocking power to the body,For the most part humans die easy compared to animals. I don't remember many people digesting a 45 acp and getting back up;) The nine is a Little small and a little too fast, maybe with the new bullets of today, like the Golddot/XTP may be better than what we had even five years ago. Sometime just a good old revolver 357 works well using JHP's and easy to operate under stressful situations, you don't really need a 10 to 15 rounds for home defense, 6 should work fine, if the criminal can digest 6 357 rounds look for a window and jump and run;) LOL...Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
Rmoulert, if this is the story I am thinking of the bullet that finally put that guy down was a .38 or .38 spl.

Does anybody else find all this "best ammo for self-defense" a bit tiresome? Unless you're looking for trouble or happen to frequent disreputable parts of town on a regular basis for some reason or another, I don't think it matters a hoot in **** what caliber you have.


"What caliber you have" is the most important aspect of all as far as I'm concered regarding a gun that may be used for self defense. It doesn't really matter if you might need it once in your life or every day. The "what type of ammo" questiong gets old with me, given the nature of most shootings, but the "caliber" question is very important. The "what brand of gun" question is least important of all in my opintion as long as you're talking about a quality gun.

im posting this for a friend of mine.

Is a 9mm good as a self Defense gun? if so what bullets would you suggest. he has an older Browning Hi Power 9mm thought any suggestions for guns would be nice. and he says "i like the browning because having 15 shots is a comfort." any ideas?


The CorBon PowR-Ball ammo has a 100 grain hollowpoint bullet capped with a polymer ball to make it feed like a full metal jacket. Instead of chancing clothing plugging up a hollow point the polymer ball is what expands the hollow point on impact. Velocity in 9mm is 1475 from a 4" barrel. I carry a .38 Super and a S&W 6906 both loaded with PowR-Ball. Can hardly wait till their revolver rounds hit the street. The .38 Special is rated at 1400 fps...just the ticket for a snubbie...Bob

[QUOTE=Jeffro426] The minimum i would even consider for self defence is a .380 loaded HOT with some serious hollow points. I carry a bersa thunder .380 with some of my handloaded "defence loads" and feel very comfortable that i could stop most anyone with it if i ever had too. It was VERY inexpensive(can easily be found for under 200 bucks) very small and conceilable, and so far has proven to be super reliable. I havent met anyone who hasnt been happy with their Bersa.


I'll jump in here with a ataboy for the Bersa Thunder 380!!
I just picked one up for the wife-Small hand-recoil sensitive!
This gun fits her like a glove and it a sweet shooter as well-so much for being a bigbore only -guy!! If she can't or will not use it, it's staying in the home with me -like I said a sweet shooter- very concealable and should stop anyone stupid enough to be on the buisness end-got reloading supplies coming as we speak!!

PS have you used the 90 XTP's in yours? That's going to be my starter load we'll see how they shoot. :D

Gunnut:
I agree with the .380 being the minimum I would consider for a self-defence load. Back in the 70's and 80's I carried an AMT Backup as my duty backup, and my off duty back-up. At first I carried Speer 100grain HP's loaded with the maximum load of Red Dot. It was a good accurate load out to 15-20 yards. (Pie Plate groups) When the Lawyers started with all the wrongfull death lawsuits over handloads being used, I went to Factory loads, so you might considder factory ammo for carry and handloads for practice.

Lee L.

M1894
No disrespect- but I trust my handloads more then any factory round!! Besides I can tailor it to the gun better then any factory load can be-accuracy is very important with a self defense load! Lawyers be ****ed!

M1894
No disrespect- but I trust my handloads more then any factory round!! Besides I can tailor it to the gun better then any factory load can be-accuracy is very important with a self defense load! Lawyers be ****ed!

I'll have to admit part of the reason is the Chief was concerned about the lawsuits against the department more than I was about the lawsuits against me. I do agree with you that the handloads from our standpoint are better, but convincing a jury is hard, that's why I went to the .40 Cal Back Up when it came out.

Lee L.

M1894
Unfortunately that a condition of your employment- as a private citizen I don't have that restriction placed on me!!
And believe me those lawyers will not be anywhere near by when the SHTF and I need to use my firearm! Like they say is better to ask for forgiveness thenit is to get permission. :D

I agree your best shooting should be your own reloads bye far, Nothing like working a good quality load, but one thing people forget about is that reloads are not sealed(waterproof)like factory loads are, unless you seal your own reloads, this takes extra steps to do so. Thats why most big game hunters traveling to a high moister area's like Alaska etc...use factory loads,more resistant to moister/water. nothing worse than wet powder;) Carrying day to day as a cop, we are in all kinds of weather and environments, Factory loads are favorable to carry. Seems the speer gold dots are use allot in law enforcement, I must say they shoot fine and mushroom well,and stay together as well. One thing I will say if you are carrying reloads, make sure to cycle your bullets to insure good quality shooting. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.