Is it a good idea? Gun is a Freedom Arms .454 with a 7.5 inch barrel and a 2X(i think either that or its 4X) scope. If it is good then what Ammo? (hand Loaded or Factory.)

I don't know Black Bears, but I do know that .454 are regularly used to take the Cape Buffalo, which is just about as big and ordinary as it gets.

A local hunter uses hard cast bullets with a fairly big Meplat, and finds that he gets full penetration on side to side shots.

Question from someone "over the water" - just how tough are black bears?

The average black bear can be put down with just about any good whitetail cartridge ( at least the ones that Iv'e shot in Pennsylvania, and even the biggu'ns with a well placed shot. Shot placement is some times deceiving with a black bear (all that black hair makes finding spot behind shoulder sometimes tricky) , this is usually the main reason for not dropping them.

444fitch

P.S.

I'd stick with the 2x, most shots it would be better to have more of the bear in the field of view to aid shot placement. Any factory .454 or handloads for that matter should suffice on black bears(premium bullet for insurance if your concerned about less than perfect broadside shots).

Thanks all.

Is it a good idea? Gun is a Freedom Arms .454 with a 7.5 inch barrel and a 2X(i think either that or its 4X) scope. If it is good then what Ammo? (hand Loaded or Factory.)

With the proper loads, your 454 will take anything that walks the earth. I live just outside the smokies and have seen several good bears taken with ALOT less. No "special" bullets are needed. You do not need a hard cast lead bullet for black bears as you would brown bears. Hornady XTP's will rock em. The reason I bought my 454 was because I wanted something that would take care of me in any situation Alaska/Africa/Detroit. You can feel pretty safe anywhere in the world with your 454.
Personally, I will never hunt potentially dangerous game with handloads. In my experience, Factory always goes bang. That has not always been the case with handloads (in my experience) Not to offend any case stuffers.
As far as the scope goes, it really depends on the terrain and the type of hunting youll be doing. If your hunting with dogs, forget the scope for now. Open ground, go with the 4x. Heavy timber - either none or a 1 or 2x
Good luck! Where ya huntin?

I'm hunting in the woods, northern PA. ok heres a question, whats a good load, that will take down a fair sized black bear, with out takeing off my wrist?

Load any 300gr. bullet down to around 1,200fps.

If you can't find any .454 data for that velocity range, use the 30,000CUP load data for the .45 Colt.

heavy bullet weight usually gives an increase in recoil, I would try the 240/260 gr loads from Win, Hornady or Magtec I have a 265gr Hard Cast load@ 1600fps from a 4 3/4" Ruger that I love to shoot, not bad on recoil.
The Thornly Stopping Power formula gives it a 118
(http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/thornily.htm)
and easy on brass.

44SandW
Any good load of 300 gr be it a JHP or WFN cast will spank any blacky you come across! That's all the way to 150 yds if you can hit them at that range. If you havn't shot a 454 before it will take some practice with full snort loads to get used to it -they do kick!! :D :cool: :D I take it by your handle - you shoot the 44 mag? That's good blacky medicine as well. :cool:

44SandW
Any good load of 300 gr be it a JHP or WFN cast will spank any blacky you come across! That's all the way to 150 yds if you can hit them at that range. If you havn't shot a 454 before it will take some practice with full snort loads to get used to it -they do kick!! :D :cool: :D I take it by your handle - you shoot the 44 mag? That's good blacky medicine as well. :cool:


Yea, i shoot a S&W .44 Mag with an 8 3/8" barrel. how hot should the loads be on the .44? what factory loads will do the trick?

i would suggest 2 follow shots to make sure the bear is safely dropped. many folks like that one hit one kill method, which can be harmful because they may not prepare themselves for the "WHAT IF" events. you still need to aim to kill with that first round, but you can just tap tap twice in the mid or lower section to make sure that thing go down.

i know a guy that carry a .44 magnum taurus ranging bull as his sidearm while hunting bears and mountain lions with his winchester 70 in 7 mm magnum. he'll take the kill shot from 50 to 100 yards with a scope. if he hunts mountain lion, he'll drop the rifle and go for the ranging bull right away regardless if the animal is down or not. it is his way of making sure he's alive. mountain lion is super fast, they'll be in your face before you can even crap in your pants. with black bear, he shoot again if it doesn't go down; he'll only go for the handgun if it start running and is too close for him to use the scope.

if you hunt dangerous game, please do yourself and all of your family and friends a favor by getting the best ammunition you can. price should come last. a bear meat will compensate the extra pennies you pay per round. you can practice that .22 all you like, but you must use the best rounds for the money if you like to live peacefully.

Well, im going out by myself or with a friend of mine, barrowing my grandfathers pistols. Me and him where disscussing it earlier, if the two of us (me and my friend Nate) go we're taking a FA .454 cassul, a S&W 629 .44 mag with an 8 and 3/8" barrel, a S&W 629 with a 6" barrel and a S&W 500 Magnum Performance center 10.5" barrel. and i already told my grandfather that im taking the 500 and the 629 8 3/8 (the gun with i use for pin shooting.) im pretty **** sure that this bundle of hand cannons is safe for black bear :D

I have gained a lot of respect for bears over the years. Sorry, but I am one who believes in hunting them with a suitable rifle and caliber (.270 caliber premium 150 grn bullet minimum) for black bears. I have witnessed with my own eyes the effects of hitting a big black bear with a 35 cal bullet and things go wrong quick. Due to bullet break up!

Now when I am in grizz country or where a big brown might be located, .338 mag with 250 grn premium bullet is minimum at my side. As for hunting Cape Buffalo with a .454 or any other handgun caliber, I think you have to be off a half load bringing the subject to mind. Odds are better in my eyes playing Russian Roulett with 3 rounds in the chamber.

There is NOTHING wrong with hunting bear with a revolver, my cousin took a black bear with a .44 magnum, not quite full power (reloads), my other cousin took a big one with a .480 and one with a .454, i personally dont think a 150 grain bullet is big enough for bear the .44 is a 260 grain as is the jacketed .454, i think .30 caliber is the smallest acceptible for bear in a rifle. i AM going to be going in the spring, i AM going to be taking a .44 and either a .454 or a .500 smith, both in revolvers. S&W 629, 8 3/8" barrel (.44) and either FA .454 cassul 7.5" barrel or the .500 smith PC model.

There is NOTHING wrong with hunting bear with a revolver, my cousin took a black bear with a .44 magnum, not quite full power (reloads), my other cousin took a big one with a .480 and one with a .454, i personally dont think a 150 grain bullet is big enough for bear the .44 is a 260 grain as is the jacketed .454, i think .30 caliber is the smallest acceptible for bear in a rifle. i AM going to be going in the spring, i AM going to be taking a .44 and either a .454 or a .500 smith, both in revolvers. S&W 629, 8 3/8" barrel (.44) and either FA .454 cassul 7.5" barrel or the .500 smith PC model.

44S&W, I can't see your logic on hunting bears with handguns, hopefully you will have somebody backing you up with a large rifle caliber when it comes time to hunt.

I once knew a man who's job it was in turning bears loose in the wild after they had become a pain in the rear. He carried a service pistol in a .357 and was an excellent shot by the way. One day something went wrong and a bear almost killed him while he put 5 shots into the bear, at point blank range.

I also have a real hard time understanding how most handgunners who own and shoot those .454 and bigger calibers can do so quickly and accurately enough to think they could take out a charging bear in the woods. Your lucky to get off a shot. Let alone handle the 50 plus pounds of recoil they give off to the hand, arm and shoulder that is holding the pistol. A little hard getting back on target as I have seen with my own eyes at the range.

I know half the members in our gun club who can't handle 32 pounds of recoil from a 300 win mag and forget about being accurate on target. So please do a whole lot of shooting at moving targets before you decide to take on that Teddy Bear in the woods!

2Bits
I disagree whole heartedly with your thinking-your saying a 44 Mag on up is inadequate for Black bear? Then I guess all those who hunt black bear with a bow are just crazy? Many
Blacks have fallen to pistols and many more will in the future.
Since most are taken at close range( 20-100 yds) over bait or dogs then it's perfect for pistol work. The 454 is more then adequate for black Bear with good loads will shoot clean through one end to end . A 270 with 150gr bullets ? Now I consider that allfull light !! A 30-06 with 165gr would be a better minimum! :(

Any .454 300 gr will do just fine on any North American game.

I don't hunt with a hangun, other than a T/C with several short barrels, .256 Win. being the largest cartridge. I did have a 44 Mag barrel for it and would say it was certainly capable of putting a black bear's lights out, if hunting over a bait at close range.

Don't know how many stories that have been published of skilled hunters using handguns to take just about everything that walks on the earth. A .454, .480 or .475 will surely be more than adequate to down a black bear in the hands of such a skilled shooter.

Not knowing the shooting skills of the above posters, I would reserve my opinions and give them the benefit of the doubt that they are, indeed, capable of good marksmanship with the chosen handgun.

r2Bits
I disagree whole heartedly with your thinking-your saying a 44 Mag on up is inadequate for Black bear? Then I guess all those who hunt black bear with a bow are just crazy? Many
Blacks have fallen to pistols and many more will in the future.
Since most are taken at close range( 20-100 yds) over bait or dogs then it's perfect for pistol work. The 454 is more then adequate for black Bear with good loads will shoot clean through one end to end . A 270 with 150gr bullets ? Now I consider that allfull light !! A 30-06 with 165gr would be a better minimum! :(

It is your puragative to disagree with my words!

Now a .270 caliber with a 150 premium bullet going 2800fps, will certainly out penetrate your 30-06 with a load of 165 grn bullet weight. It has to do with sectional density, something I guess you haven't experienced as of yet perhaps or just an element of the equation you forgot about.

How much energy does that pistol of yours produce at 1600fps shooting a 300 grn slug might I ask you.

I suppose ethics comes into play, when one speaks of shooting a black bear at 100 yards with a handgun........sorry! I just can't see doing that thank you. I know of NO guide that would let that happen either.

Now lets talk about energy levels for a line or so OK. My .270 or shall we take your 30-06 has an energy level of 2900 foot pounds or energy at the muzzle. Compare that to your big pistol! Hydrostatic shock caused by velocity does a great deal of damage to the animals vitals. My bear gun is a .338 Win mag with a 275 grain Swift A Frame bullet, which delivers in excess of 3900 foot pounds of energy.

Now when one goes hunting for a black (most are under 200 pounds in the lower 48) bear, you can never know if and when that 400 or 500 pound big boy will approach and that is a horse of a different color once more. You just might need to be packing 2 of those big bore pistols I think. If you want to hunt big bad bears with your hand cannon, be my guest. I'll stay with what I know works everytime out the gate.

Energy doesn't kill, 2bits, if it did then bows and arrows would be harmless....

All it takes is a careful inspection of the wound channel produced by a good hard cast bullet with a nice wide meplat to convice anyone. I know I was utterly astonished to see the damage and destruction that a non-expanding .45 cal bullet at 'only' 1100fps or so would do (especially after years upon years of reading magazines full of articles on foot-lbs of energy and bullet expansion).

If you poke a hole in Mr. Bear, and there's enough surface area on the wound channel to drop the blood pressure quickly, it's all over, regardless of the energy involved.

An expanding rifle bullet generally leaves a very large wound channel for a short distance, which tapers off to almost nothing. That's great if the bullet starts out in the lungs on a broadside shot, not so great if it starts out in the hindquarters heading forward. A non-expanding cast bullet with a meplat of say around 0.280" or above leaves a wound channel that's nearly the same diameter from one end to the other, but often will penetrate two or three times as far as the rifle bullet.

Drop a 500 lb. weight on your foot from 2 feet up in the air. Will it hurt! Darn right. Will it kill you? Not very quickly, anyway. That's 1,000 ft-lbs of energy, an often-recommended minimum for hunting deer.

Range limitations on handgun hunting are pretty well determined by the ability of the hangunner to accurately place the bullet. A .454 Casull is running a lot faster than say a 30,000CUP .45 Colt load, which means the difference between the two can be summed up by saying the .454 will deliver the same punch maybe 50 or 75 yards farther away than the .45 Colt (in this example).

Rifles are handy because we can hit things a long way away, and put the bullet where it needs to be. They aren't necessarily more or less effective than a good cast bullet hunting load in a handgun. It just depends on the particular comparison.

Yes there is an additional element of risk when hunting with a handgun. The same might be said of using any weapon that isn't the absolute most effective choice you have (bow, iron-sighted lever gun, muzzleloader, shotgun, knife, spear, 2x4, etc.).

Yes I'd also prefer to have a backup with a rifle if I was going after potentially dangerous game with a handgun. And I'd do everything that I could to make sure the backup didn't need to fire a shot....

By the way I like your choice of a .338 - it is a lot of thump in a fairly controllable package for an experienced rifleman. But sometimes I'm up for a bit more a challenge....

Now when one goes hunting for a black (most are under 200 pounds in the lower 48) bear, you can never know if and when that 400 or 500 pound big boy will approach and that is a horse of a different color once more.

No thats completly wrong, most bears in the lower 48 arn't under 200 lbs, second off, i know a guy that took down a black bear with a .270, my cousins have taken black bears with everything .44 up, and im sorry but your friend shooting a bear with a .357 is just stupid. a .357 wont stop a black bear, not to mention a .357 and a .44 are totaly differnt.

MikeG
Thanks couldn't have put any better!

2Bits
To answer your Question my 454 with 300 gr GC WFN at 1600+ fps get around 1700+ ftlbs energry at the muzzle
at 100 yds it still has 1100+ ftlbs which is more then the good old 44 mag has at the muzzle!! As MikeG pionted out there a whole lot of difference between your rifle bullet and my big wide 300gr WFN or 300 gr XTP-mag as far as how much distructive action occurs when it goes through a bear.
The WFN will not exspand much if at all but a XTP-Mag will exspand to just under an inch now that will be almost twice the size of your exspanded rifle bullet so which do you think will create the most damage? At the very minimum you'll have two 1/2" holes in that bear-1 in , 1 out !