Looking for an education on an AR-15.
I like quality and will use it for plinking and varmints.
What brands are best?
What features are best?
Stainless or chrome barrel?
What twist?
Should I purchase a quality receiver first and build from there?
I live 15 min. from Rock River arms and like to keep my money local when I can. www.rockriverarms.com BTW, my uncle doesn't think there's a three shot burst on the military rifle. I thought I heard they no longer have full auto and only do semi and three shot burst. Do they have single, three shot burst and full auto on military version?
Any and all information would help.
Thanks ahead, Dave

I'm a new guy here so my opinion my not carry much weight, but I will throw my hat in the ring anyway.
I would not be afraid of buying a Rock River. The ones I have looked at are nice and they work fine friom what I hear.
I am not sure if they do chrome or not.
I myself have an Olympic with a stainless barrel and inspite of the bad rap they get by some mine works great.
Bushmaster is another good brand and I am sure they do chrome.
I would go with a stainless or a chrome barrel. My stainless feeds and chambers everything I feed it.
1 in 9 is a good general purpose rate of twist that will work best with 50 to 69 gr bullets, but individual barrels may shoot lighter or heavier bullets better.
If you want to shoot the heavy match grade bullets a 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 will probably work better.

The Rock River guns are good, but in my opinion the best choice out there is the Armalite M15A2 National Match.

If you want to scope the rifle, the flat top M15A4 SPR II would be an excellent choice.

Whatever rifle you buy, you should ensure that you get one with a match grade trigger as it comes from the box. It's much more cost effective, and convenient, to get the good trigger from the factory. If you want to shoot at longer range, you WILL get a match trigger sooner or later and the rifles are much easier to use to good effect with the match triger.

Thanks for the info folks. I assumed that Springfield armory had changed it's name to Rock River Arms. That's not the case. We have three manufactures of AR products within 30 minutes of my house. Rock River Arms in Colona, IL, Springfield Armory in Geneseo, IL, and Armalite in Geneseo, IL. In my research I found that Armalite makes an AR10. I like the idea of .308 instead of .223. Not sure if they'll fit the rifle with match trigger but I'll ask.

How would you compare Rock River to Olympic? Local gunshop has a number of used Olympic guns, various configurations, and one Rock River with a heavy barrel. The Rock River is about $100 cheaper than the Olympic guns.

There is also a Hesse (?) which is real expensive but it has a Nightforce scope which is probably part of the higher price.

I've never been a big fan of ARs but the prices are coming down and I'm somewhat tempted.

Rock River does seem to offer a very good product at a very good price, and their NM trigger is among the best of the two-stage triggers without breaking the bank like you will with a KAC or Jewell. That said, I have a Colt which I would not advise you to get. Overpriced and under performance. I also have an Armalite M15-A4 (T) and this thing is superb in every way. I have yet to shoot a group over 3/4 inch and with Black Hill 77 gr. match it will hold 3" at 500 yards if the wind leaves me alone. This would be my choice of factory built rifles only because I am so impressed with the way it shoots right out of the box and I have had to do nothing to it at all.
Regarding barrels, IMO go with either a chrome molly or stainless. While chrome lined barrels are good for rocking and rolling, USUALLY chrome lined barrels do not deliver the best accuracy. I like stainless barrels a lot, but standard un-chrome lined chrome-molly (normal steel) barrel will be just as accurate with the proper ammo, and will be a little cheaper. And forget the fluting. All fluting does is remove some weight. I have rifles that are fluted and non-fluted and weight is the only difference. They do not cool down any quicker from any practical point of view and they heat up just as fast. Fluting looks cool, but serves no real purpose unless you are trying to keep the weight down.
IMO go with the A4 or A3 configuration, the flat-top version. That will allow you mount a scope on it without having to mount it high on the carry handle. Get the NM trigger too; you will be glad you have it when you try to shoot small groups. I would also go with a Picatinny rail gas block, as you will have no need for a front sight tower. You can always add a clamp on or flip up rear and front iron sights if that trips your fancy later.
The twist I like best is 1:8. My Colt is 1:7 and sprays 55 gr. bullets, but does OK with 68-77 gr. bullets (it has a chrome lined barrel and is a 1 MOA rifle at best), the heaviest I've tried. The Armalite is 1:8 and shoots everything pretty well and drives 77 gr. bullets through the same hole. If you only plan on shooting 55 gr. bullets then 1:9 to 1:12 may be better, but they will not shoot the heavier bullets as well usually. Since you said you want it for varmint hunting, for long range shooting the 75 & 77 gr. bullets will really help out past 300 yards and you will need at least the 1:8 twist.
Since you would like to stay local, then Rock River would be a very good choice. They offer just about every configuration possible but I have no first-hand experience with them except for their two-stage trigger and lower parts kit which I have on a DPMS stainless steel black Tefloned lower built up on DMPS other parts in .458 SOCOM. I have been very impressed with DPMS stuff also. I know a lot of people shun them but I cannot see why if my rifle is representative of their stuff. Tony Rumore of TROMIX did my .458 SOCOM upper build using almost DPMS everything except for the barrel and it is great.
Regarding the M16/M-4, it is my understanding that currently they do not offer full auto capability on the military version, just safe, semi, and 3 shot burst. You can buy aftermarket kits (if you have the proper paperwork) for almost any configuration you want, but I THINK the military has ditched the FA feature on current M-4s. Just don't quote me on that as I have no first-hand knowledge about these weapons, just what I have read and THINK I remember.
Forget Hesse, from what I have heard they are mostly crap. They are among the cheapest of the cheap and the nighforce scope is worth more than an entire Hesse rifle and then some. For more information check out www.AR15.com as most all of your questions can be answered there.

Any opinions/experience on the High Standard AR 15s?

Talk about a resurrection!!!
I find these reviews very accurate. http://www.gunblast.com/HighStandard-AR15.htm


I use Bushmaster arms, but there are a few more good ones.

I located a High Standard Carbine flat top at a local gun store.After handling it and a Bushy,I preferred the H.S. It felt heavier and more substantial and the materials seemed of better quality. I read the Gunblast article recently as well and am glad to hear it is favoravble. I'lll pick up the rifle in the morning,slap a scope on the flat top and see how it shoots. The only experience I have with 223 is H&R single shots, Saiga 223 and Mini 14,so I am anticipating my maiden voyage with the revered AR type rifle. I'm being facetious/sarcastic,but I have a feeling it's going to be impressive.

The Saiga or Mini 14 can't compare to a good AR!! The HS should be chambered in 5.56x45, so surplus ammo should be on your menu. Don't use Wolf, it is garbage. Jim

Thanks,Jim for the advice and comment. I picked up my rifle this AM.It was supposed to come with a High Standard 30 round mag,but the salesman couldn't find it so he asked me if I preferred a Colt 30 rounder or a Bushmaster 20 rounder. Since most of my shooting will be at the range,from a bench,I chose the 20 rounder.I can always add a 30 rounder later on. I took the gun apart,cleaned and lubed it,mounted a 3x9x40 scope on the flat top,added an inexpensive web sling and I'm ready to go. I guess I'll start with 223 and maybe find some surplus 5.56 ammo cheap(if I can find it).I noticed the Gunblast shooter used both and was happy with it. Thanks again.

From what I've read so far, it's safe to shoot 223 in a 5.56 NATO gun, but not vice versa.Is that correct? Maybe I need to keep looking,but 5.56 ammo seems scarce on the internet. High Standard's web site indicates you can shoot 223 5.56 ammo in the AR 15 rifles and in fact on the bbl and receiver there is stamped 5.56 NATO/ 1-9 twist.

You are good then. http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=318515

as to the question to the burst, the M-16 does NOT have a full auto selection, those are only semi- and (3 rd.) burst-fire. Full auto on a infantry weapon is fairly useless unless the weapon is designed to be controllable as such (like an M249).

as to the question to the burst, the M-16 does NOT have a full auto selection, those are only semi- and (3 rd.) burst-fire. Full auto on a infantry weapon is fairly useless unless the weapon is designed to be controllable as such (like an M249).
Well...actually the early one did not have a three round burst capability....
My expereince with this weapon goes back to 1966 and the XM16. We had terrible problems with this weapon in Vietnam. They changed out the bufffer groups....reducing the cyclic rate of the weapon...then the chrome plated bolt was change and firing pin retainer pin was changed to a cotter pin...it was possible to put the old pin in backwards and jam up the action.....then they changed the barrell and flash suppressor...giving us a plated chamber....

In the early 80s I was involved in a test which looked M16 critically.....The Infantry Board conducted it looking at a platoon from the 194th Inf Bde; a platoon of Rangers; and a platoon of Marines. Each group differed in both the verison of the weapon they had and the level of training.

The rebuilt M16A1 that the 194th had were terrible. The troops had a lot of trouble zeroing the weapons. They would make an elevation adjustment and the rifle would be off the target at 25 meters....investigation found that the front sight detent pins had rusted and when troops attempted to adjust the sight they bent it....causing a windage error....then the rifles were locked into a vice...most would not shoot 8 minutes of angle.

The Rangers had newer rifles but still an older design..

The Marines had M16A2 with different sights and a different twist in the barrel. Their rifles also had the 3 round burst feature and were much more accurate than the older rebuilts the Army troops had.

The results were interesting.....those who shoot more do better..

The worse shooters were the Army Bde with only annual requalification. They never went to the range.

The best were the Rangers who fired tons of ammo each month.

Close behind were the Marines who also fire a great deal and had a better weapon. It didn't hurt that the USMC has a culture and history of shooters


Eventually the Army went to the M4 and upgraded the M16 fleet through depot rebuild.