Guys I understand what single and double action is however I'm confused on something, one particular make to be specific..
Now let me state what I do know to start with...
Single action revolver, hammer must be pulled back each time to fire

Double action revolver, hammer can be pulled back and fired

single action for less trigger pull OR with hammer down you can just pull the trigger and it cocks and fires...

Single action semi auto, Pull the slide back to chamber the round and cock the hammer, pull trigger round is fired, rounds recoil pushes the slide back, chambering new round and cocks hammer...
If you de cock the gun you mus re-cock it before firing..

Double action semi auto, Pull the slide back to chamber the round and cock the hammer, pull trigger round is fired, rounds recoil pushes the slide back, chambering new round and cocks hammer...
If you decock the gun you can pull the trigger and still fire or recock it by hand...

Now with that said... I was looking at the para ordanance Limited Double action's and trying to figure out what made them so special? A friend at the range yesterday had a 1911 .45 and he let me shoot it, I could have swore it was double action?

So what makes the para-ord so special? Even the 9mm ruger my friend let me borrow as well was double action, are most 1911 style guns not double action?
Thanks guys!

Anyone?
I have read the para-ord site over and over and just can't make heads or tails of it....
I don't understand the point of having the hammer if the hammer is down when the gun is cocked?

No, 1911's are single action. The trigger does just one thing, trip the sear and drop the hammer. As far as I know unless your buddy owns a Para Ord then his 1911 is single action.

Now let me ask you why do you think his 1911 is double action? Sean

No, 1911's are single action. The trigger does just one thing, trip the sear and drop the hammer. As far as I know unless your buddy owns a Para Ord then his 1911 is single action.

Now let me ask you why do you think his 1911 is double action? Sean

Cause when he handed it to me to shoot, the hammer was down and I just pulled the trigger and it fired....
I'm going to check his out again and make for sure...
it was my first day shooting semi-auto's and I hade a ruger 9mm a friend let me borrow and his was double action so I could be getting them confused..

With the para ordanance though, its double action, so you can have one in the tube and the gun be un-cocked and all you have to do is pull the trigger to fire it right?
I am just unclear on the entire hammer down/cocked setup?
If the hammer is down how would you de-cock the gun?

Para-Ordinance's site doesn't explain their LDA (Light Double Action) trigger very well. The term "Double Action" got off to a bad start anyhow. The term "Single Action" means you have to cock the hammer before you can fire. Fine, for revolvers. On a single action semi-automatic, including most 1911s, the slide does it for you. At some time the double action revolver was invented, which offered hammer cocking and trigger cocking. By trigger cocking I mean that a long pull on the trigger pulled the trigger back and released it. At first, double action meant that the gun could be cocked both ways, but it soon meant trigger cocking.

Toss in the recent term "Double Action Only" (DAO), which means that conventional single action thumb cocking isn't available.

The Para-Ordinance LDA is a DAO, unlike most 1911 pattern pistols. There's two clues, the pivoted trigger and there's no hammer spur. It's primary safety is the same as a double action revolver. The long heavy trigger pull; plus you should carry in a holster that covers the trigger. The LDA has two secondary systems, the thumb or slide safety and the grip safety. I haven't fired an LDA, but I'm sure that the hammer comes back to full cock as you pull the trigger. You probably were watching the sights and not the trigger, and didn't notice.
http://www.paraord.com/pages/index.html

On a conventional Double Action pistol, the first shot is double action, then the slide cocks the hammer for the rest of the shots. The safety on most of them is a decocker that drops the hammer safely, although many have a safety position that locks the hammer in the cocked position. The problem with them is that the following shots are single action, with a short, light trigger pull, and the switch from the first shot double action pull to the second shot single action pull is difficult to adjust to.

Bye
Jack

Cause when he handed it to me to shoot, the hammer was down and I just pulled the trigger and it fired....
Question: Was it a Colt Double Eagle? This was a double action 1911 style pistol that Colt Marketed in the '80s.

I'm going to check his out again and make for sure...
it was my first day shooting semi-auto's and I hade a ruger 9mm a friend let me borrow and his was double action so I could be getting them confused..

I hate to say that you are because I wasn't there but it would be helpful to know what kind of pistols you were shooting especially for your own reference, so you'll know exactly what you liked and didn't.


With the para ordanance though, its double action, so you can have one in the tube and the gun be un-cocked and all you have to do is pull the trigger to fire it right?
I am just unclear on the entire hammer down/cocked setup?
If the hammer is down how would you de-cock the gun?

Now you need to understand that Para-Ord makes several different pistols. The basic P-Series ie P-14-45/16-40, 13-45,12-45 etc, are all what are called "WideBody" or "Hi-Cap"
Single Action Semi_autos. With the double Actions you are getting into the LDA Series, just so you understand they have two different series of pistols.

By the way the P-Series are designated by the # of Rounds their PreBan Magazines held and the Chambering, a P16-40 is a 16+1 (in the chamber) 40 S&W. Sean

So in other words with the para-ord, they are double action ALL the time. meaning that everytime you pull the trigger it cocks the gun and fires? so the gun never cocks until you pull the trigger right?

so then why even have a hammer at all on the back of the gun?
I've seen some revolvers like that, that doesn't have a rear hammer....

That is correct. On their DA pistols the hammer is not cocked, or actually not fully cocked, until you pull the trigger, which brings the hammer back to full cock and releases it. Most DAO pistols the hammers are pre-loaded by racking the slide. Some DAO pistols if you have a mis-fire, you must rack the slide as pulling the trigger does nothing. However, other DAO pistols, such as the HK LEM trigger and P2000 DAOs, if you have a mis-fire you can pull the trigger to bring the hammer to full cock and drop the hammer again (double strike capability). However, if you are pulling the trigger on a non-preloaded hammer, the pull is much harder. I believe the Para has double strike capability but cannot swear to it. Glocks do not. If you pull the trigger and get a click, you must rack the slide, ejecting the mis-fired round (which also preloads the hammer again) then you can pull the trigger to fire the next round. It does not have double strike capability.
The reason they have a hammer exposed at all is it is cheaper to modify an existing pistol to DAO, using mostly the same big expensive components such as slide and frame, by changing the interior trigger mechanism and hammer.

A couple of points. Para-Ordinace's LDA series is DAO, but they have a conventional single action line too. The hammerless revolvers aren't. they've got a spurless enclosed hammer.

Bye
Jack

I think you could say there are 2 basic firing systems for pistols. 1 uses a hammer and a firing pin which transmits the energy form the hammer to the primer of the cartridge, 1911s, S&W, Ruger etc use this system.

The other type is striker fired, to use a Glock as an example: The glock has no external hammer, instead the slide partially retracts the firing pin/striker to a distance slightly more than half way to the rear, pulling the trigger finishes retracting the striker and compressing it's spring, then the sear trips and releases the firing pin/striker to hit the primer of the cartridge in the chamber.

That is kind of a long winded explanation for why the Para LDAs need a hammer. Sean

So in other words with the para-ord, they are double action ALL the time. meaning that everytime you pull the trigger it cocks the gun and fires? so the gun never cocks until you pull the trigger right?

so then why even have a hammer at all on the back of the gun?
I've seen some revolvers like that, that doesn't have a rear hammer....

I own a Para 14.45 LDA. I have never owned a classic 1911 Style Auto Pistol. I did shoot the 1911 in the Army in the 1960's. I view some points in this thread a little differently.
I like the LDA because I am comfortable carrying it "cocked and locked". What is cocked is the MAINSPRING against the SEAR, There is a very light trigger/hammer spring against which the trigger pulls to cycle the hammer. It does not cock the hammer. At the end of the hammer cycle, the sear releases the mainspring which drives the hammer forward from its most rearward position with the high energy necessary to strike the firing pin and discharge the chambered cartridge. This is not the same as a Beretta 92F, Walther PPK, Ruger 945 etc where the trigger pull compresses the mainspring which is connected directly to the hammer. It is a totally unique approach. Para states that the trigger pull neccessary to release the ser and mainspring is specified at 4.5-7.5 pounds. It should be 3-3.5 pounds in my opinion. Top Para Competitors claim 1 pound pulls.