Is it absolutely required to turn necks on .444 Marlin brass in order to load the Beartooth 405-grainers?

Thanks.

Russ

If you've ever loaded Lyman 429649 (I'm not positive about this mould number but it's a 325 grain mould that looks similar to 452651) to an overall length that will chamber easily, you'll notice the case starting to bulging at the gascheck. Unfortunately, I can't remember at what depth this starts to occur but I'm going to guess it's in the 5/8" to 3/4" range.

If you wanted to use the 405 Beartooth bullet in a 444 Marlin, you would need to seat to an overall length of about 2.55" to 2.56" which means you'd have near 3/4" of bullet shank in the case. If Beartooth is recommending cases be turned, I would assume they need to be turned in order to work properly with this bullet. When Marlin and Remington designed this cartridge/gun combo, they assumed it was only going to handle .44 pistol bullets. After working with my .444P for about 3 years my biggest complaint is action length restriction; i.e., I wish they could have made the action handle a 2.7" cartridge... or reduce the case to 2.1"... whichever.

44

Russ,

The plain and simple way to determine this is to make up a dummy cartridge with the bullet you intend to use. If the dummy chambers freely, don't worry about turning the necks unless you are greatly with the cosmetics of your loads.

Russ,

The plain and simple way to determine this is to make up a dummy cartridge with the bullet you intend to use. If the dummy chambers freely, don't worry about turning the necks unless you are greatly with the cosmetics of your loads.


Nope, not real concerned about cosmetics as long as they'll cycle and feed. I'll just have to wait until I get home (I'm in Iraq at the moment) in February to see how the dummies load. I'll make a few of them up, probably five or so, and try them out.

If I do have to turn them... who makes a rig for turning .444 Marlin brass? I checked my Sinclair's catalog last night and they didn't seem to have what I'd need in the way of pilots and caseholders/shellholders and such.

Thanks, guys.

Russ

Has anyone out there had experience using the Lee 310 gr GC bullet in the 444? If so look forward to hearing from them. Just got into loading for this caliber. So far have worked up a couple of good loads for the 265 gn Jacketed FP as well as the new Lyman GC/HP devestator at 268 gn cast. Group size averaged 3" at 100yd. Need to know more about heavier bullets in this cal.

magman

Russ,

Rather than turning, inside reaming is about the only way to go with larger calibers. The standard .44 (.431) Forster reamer may work depending on how long the shank of your bullet is. There is a flat on the reamer shank to give purchase to the set screw. This flat has a shouder at the back end. You may have to grind this shoulder off, extending the flat, to set the cutter out far enough to get deep enough in the case.

Forster will make custom reamers for a very reasonable price, it may be the satndard price, but must be prepaid and ordered direct. This goes for diameter, but they may be able to make a longer than standard cutter too.

Most neck turning tools won't do any caliber larger than .375, but Forster makes a turner for .50 BMG. They may be able to provide a .44 caliber pilot for that tool. The reaming will be much less expensive!

Magman,

What do you want to know about it? I worked with this bullet for a couple of years but devoted most of my effort to developing "full house" loads. It's one of the best readily available designs for extracting power coupled with good accuracy from the Triple Four; i.e., over 2000fps from an Outfitter and darn near guaranteed 1.5MOA or less. Run 'em through a .432" die just to crimp on the gaschecks... no sizing necessary for a Marlin. You might need to lap a thou. or two from the gascheck shank though... it's a pretty sloppy fit as the moulds come from the factory... or Richard Lee's garage, or basement... whatever.

44

Good idea on the reaming, that might be the way to go. I don't think I'd get a lot more accuracy out of neckturning .444 Marlin brass for a lever-action rifle. I mean, it's not "benchrest" we're talking here. I'll check out the reamer.

Thanks.

Russ

Hey fellows...
Almost seems to be two topics going on here but I don't think anyone will object if you love your 444! I had a friend just send me a box of the Lee 310-grain bullets he molded... I guess he is trying to turn me into a casting junkie and it will probably work... He sent these after I b1tched about the performance of a Hornady 265-grain bullet on our small Texas whitetails.

The bullets look like they will work and had I not already left home for the holidays I would build a dummy round to answer the original question of this topic. I am surprised that Lee's Modern Loading does not include any data in the 444 Marlin for this bullet of their own design. I am a Lee fan, and plan on using their equipment.

I'm not offering anything here but the interest in my 444P and the lead bullets. Russ... you keep your head down and get home soon and safe. If need be maybe we should mail you a 444P in parts... beats those pea shooters any day.

If need be maybe we should mail you a 444P in parts... beats those pea shooters any day.

Amen, amen, and AMEN!

I don't feel overly confident with my mousepistol and my mouserifle. I'd sure rather have a .45 ACP and an M14 or an M1.

If you get a chance to check this, let me know. I'm hoping for great things from those 405s!

Take care.

Russ

If you get a chance to check this, let me know. I'm hoping for great things from those 405s!Russ,
I won't be home until the 29th but will check out the Lee bullet on that date. I assume it won't be any problem as my friend is shooting these bullets now. I will post picture.

Magman,

What do you want to know about it? I worked with this bullet for a couple of years but devoted most of my effort to developing "full house" loads. It's one of the best readily available designs for extracting power coupled with good accuracy from the Triple Four; i.e., over 2000fps from an Outfitter and darn near guaranteed 1.5MOA or less. Run 'em through a .432" die just to crimp on the gaschecks... no sizing necessary for a Marlin. You might need to lap a thou. or two from the gascheck shank though... it's a pretty sloppy fit as the moulds come from the factory... or Richard Lee's garage, or basement... whatever.

44
44
Sounds like a plan. Just ordered out 100 rounds of new brass. Will start loading efforts after the 1st. Can you recommend a good starting powder? For the heck of it will let you know how I make out.

magman

Russ and Magman...
As promised, here is a picture of the Lee 310-grain cast bullet loaded on a 444 Marlin.

http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/uploads/lee310lead.jpg

I tried to seat the bullet to the MAX OAL for the 444 Marlin, which is 2.57", and the cartridge jamed coming out of the magazine onto the ramp. At that length, the rim of the trimmed case (trimmed with the Lee Case Trimmer) was just at the start or the aft edge of the cannelure.

After readjusting the seating die to seat the bullet to an OAL of 2.54, which is at the forward edge of the cannelure, the cartridged worked through the action on my 444P as smooth as silk! The cannelure groove on this bullet is about .003" in width.

The length of the bullet with the gas check is .853". The actual weight of the bullets I was given is 325-grains with the gas check and lube. It looks like .325" of the bullet is inside the case. Now I just have to load up a batch and see how they shoot.

Update...

Went out to the range, which is just down the road, and was going to shoot these Lee bullet reloads. At an OAL of 2.54" I couldn't close the action as the bullet was "agressively" engaging the lands in the barrel. I did get one to close so I shot it.

I brought the others home. I've readjusted the OAL to 2.5" and now they feed fine. That means that .365" of bullet is in the case.

I started off with 41 grains of Reloder 7... want to work up to about 45-grains. That should push the bullet at about 2100 FPS and less than 40,000 CUPs.

Here is the first three shots out of my 444P at 100 yards with the Lee 310 grain bullet and 41 grains of Reloder 7...

http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/uploads/Lee310leada.jpg

.475"!!! I can't wait to my Beartooth stuff to get here!

Here is the first three shots out of my 444P at 100 yards with the Lee 310 grain bullet and 41 grains of Reloder 7...

http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/uploads/Lee310leada.jpg

.475"!!! I can't wait to my Beartooth stuff to get here!

Nice Shootin' Ranch Dog. I'm jealous ;)

Dutch,
To be honest, I wasn't that suprised by the shooting. So far I've shot several different type of bullets out of my 444P and they have all delivered sub MOA at 100 yards off the bench.

The bullets are the:
200-grain Hornady XTP
215-grain Dutchman (jacketed HP)
230-grain Dutchman (jacketed HP)
265-grain Hornady
and now this Lee cast.

I'm going to use Lee's custom mold service to give me a 444 bullet based on this one. It will be a...

"TLC430-285-RF", based on the way Lee labels their bullets.

TL = Micro Bands for tumble lubing the bullets with Lee Liquid Alox.
C = Gas Check as I would like to propel this bullet beyond 2200 FPS.
430 = .43 caliber versus the .429 caliber bullets offered. The mold design limits are -.000/+.003. According to Beartooth Bullet's research, most Marlin barrels require a bullet that is .432 or .433.
285 = This would produce a bullet that scales 300 grains even with the gas check and lube. The 310 grain design weighs in at 325.
RF = No change to the nose needed.

I also want the cannelure cut to provide a 2.5" OAL when the bullet is seated in 444 Marlin brass.

I spoke with Lee yesterday, and John (Lee ?) thought that this would be a outstanding bullet design for the 444 Marlin and and it might be picked up as a catalog mold.

Ranch Dog-

Sounds very interesting. Please keep us posted on how well that bullet shoots. I'm sure that if Lee added it to the lineup it would sell. Seems to be a serious shortage of moulds designed for the .444 Marlin cartridge.

Good Luck, :)