Thought since hunting seasons are winding down for big game, we might post some fun loads for the off-season!

A couple of my favorites are here:

.38 Spcl. .358"-160g FNBB/6.2g AA #5/WSPP/Any Brass/+P Load/1200 fps in Carbines Very accurate in both carbines and revolvers... haven't chonographed revolvers.

.44 Mag .44-240g WFNPB/10.0g Universal Clays/WLPP/Any Brass/1050 fps Nice mild load, very accurate.

.30-30 .30-115g FNPB/7.0g Blue Dot/Any Lg Rifle Primer/Any Brass/1200-1300 fps duplicates .32-20 factory load-very accurate, very fun!

.30-06 .30-115g FNPB/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass 1200 fps load that is about as quiet as .22 mag., accurate and inexpensive!

.30-06 .30-145g FNGC/30.0g H4227/Any Primer/Any Brass.  Very accurate load of about 2000 fps that is very pleasant to shoot, low pressure and very effective large varmit load!

.223 Remington/.22-60g SPGC/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass/2000 fps/ Duplicates .22 Magnum load.  Very accurate in most guns with 1:10" or faster rifling, fairly quiet, and fun to shoot.  Very effective on large varmints.

These are just a few of my favorite off-season loads.

How about others?  What do you shoot in your big guns to plink?

Blessings for fun in a new year!

God Bless,

Marshall

  Dear Marshall,
        Do you use a filler of some kind in the rifle loads?
 I like to use dacron fiber. A little dab will do.
 I like the thought of cast bullets in the 30-06.
                                                  Have a great day,
                                                             Walt

Walt,

I only use fillers in cases of .30-06 class and larger when dealing with fast pistol powders, and then only if charges are under 15 grains.

My standard filler for these purposes (when I do use them) is to use 1/4" polyester quilt batting, 1" squares cut with scissors.  This stuff is relatively inexpensive and available wherever fabric yardage is sold.  simply roll out the batting, and it is very uniform in thickness, cut your squares with scissors, and insert into your bottleneck rifle cases with the blunt end of a crochet hook (they come in many diameters to fit many calibers of interest), pushing them down on top of the powder charge.  Once in place they don't move, and I've found the cut squares of batting to be extremely uniform in weight if cut carefully.

Hope this helps!

God Bless, and thanks for the question, I should have included this info in the post!

Marshall

Good topic Marshall! I use round ball loads in 45/70 for small stuff. I believe about 9 gr unique w/ dacron pillow stuffing filler. quiet and effective at short range(30 yds.) I just got some of the old "collar button" 140 gr bullets to try. Should be even better. .410 shells do OK in the 45/70 for very close range (10-15feet) on rattlesnakes, though I load shot loads in the regular case (45/70) also. The regular case loads are easier to extract. Use about 9-10 gr unique, wonder wad or felt wad, fill case with #9 shot, seat gas check upside down on shot and crimp. You can use the same procedure in 45 colt case, but w/ 6 gr unique for your revolver.

I use similar loads for 30/30 as you, very accurate! (6 1/2 to 7 1/2 gr unique)

The 200 gr flat point 33 win. bullet from hornaday works well in the 338 mag at about 1400-1600fps. This load cut a 4 shot group of about 1/2" @ 30 yds outside to outside edge of group. 4756? powder. (the reduced load powder) These are from memory, I'm away from home.

The sub-caliber adapters work well, 30/30-32acp, quiet and accurate to 30 yds or so. Gotta push the empty out (of the adapter) with a stick or rod though. The guy in Anchorage (Ace) will or can make an adapter for about anything you can dream up that is compatible.

1-28, I just re-read your post, the 44 load got by me. I use 9gr unique in 44 mag case with 240 gr swc. As you said, it makes a great general shooting load. I've probably shot more of these loads through my 29's and Rugers than anything else. Flattens trajectory out compared to 44 spec loads. Makes 300 yd shooting much more rewarding.
This charge with 200 gr rnfp in the Browning 44 carbine makes a great plinker-cowboy load. Very similar to the original 44/40 loads. Have also loaded a few round balls for 44, but have not shot them enough to give a good opinion of them.

I like to load small game/reduced loads for all my big guns, about 1500 feet velocity (or less) with a med weight bullet. I always use a bullet that is different (like a flat point for a cal that usually has spitzers)and immediatly identifiable, so I don't make a mistake when hunting larger animals. I use a bit of pillow stuffing for all my reduced (rifle) loads. Seems to burn more consistantly.

Thanks for starting a thread on my most recent project, Marshall!
I've been attempting, with only moderate success, to work up a plinking and small game load for use in my Krag. I've been trying to use the little Lyman 77-grain .312" slugs I cast for my .32ACP. They actually average 81 grains from WW. I hand-lube them with LBT Blue and size them in a Lee .311" (really .3107") sizer to fit my rifle's actual .310" groove.
Recoil and noise of such a dainty bullet at less than 2000 fps is, or course, negligible.
Powder selection is my current focus.
5744: despite its reputation among Cowboy Action shooters and Accurate's advertising and the recommendations of an old, dear friend who is employed by Laser-Cast; I have never had good results from 5744, even when I tried magnum primers and filler. I haven't tried it again with this particular bullet but I've had no reason to.
4227: IMR-4227 worked better than H-4227. I'm going to revisit H-4227 because I couldn't find my chrony. (I'd put it away while preparing for deer hunting and couldn't remember where.) :rolleyes:
4759: despite its sterling reputation for propelling cast bullets, it obviously didn't do as well as 4227. Also 4759 didn't begin to burn uniformly until well in excess of 1600 fps. (Best was 2000 fps and I still didn't see any leading altho I know it's not far away from some other tests.)
4064: IMR-4064 has given me the best results although it's too position-sensitive for small game hunting. I see considerable vertical stringing due to velocity variations.
20.0 gr 4064 => 1460 fps, avg; 283.1 ES; 90.55 SD
22.8 gr 4064 => 1678 fps, avg; 328.4 ES; 85.44 SD
This numbers speak for themselves, not particularly good but I may be expecting too much.
3031: I think I'll try ~21 grains of IMR-3031 next because Richard Lee recommended it for reduced loads in his load manual.

Any suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
91

Thought since hunting seasons are winding down for big game, we might post some fun loads for the off-season!

A couple of my favorites are here:

...

.30-06 .30-115g FNPB/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass 1200 fps load that is about as quiet as .22 mag., accurate and inexpensive!

.30-06 .30-145g FNGC/30.0g H4227/Any Primer/Any Brass.  Very accurate load of about 2000 fps that is very pleasant to shoot, low pressure and very effective large varmit load!

.223 Remington/.22-60g SPGC/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass/2000 fps/ Duplicates .22 Magnum load.  Very accurate in most guns with 1:10" or faster rifling, fairly quiet, and fun to shoot.  Very effective on large varmints.

...


VERY interested in these.

Been told that .22mag is too little gun for coyotes, but .223 is too loud. .22Hornet is OK, but if I could download a 30-06 or .223 to somewhere between .22mag and .22hornet loudness and power for killing coyotes, that would be awesome, since these guns are more available, and could have other uses.

If you have anything else to add here, I'd be most interested. Also, faint memory has me thinking of blue dot powder and large pistol primers, but I could be mistaken.

Thanks a bunch.

Sasquatch,

Also recently been playing with more .30-06 loads in the off season. Have found another that shoots superbly in four different 06's in our stables.

BTB .310"-135gSPGC/24.0g 2400/CCI 200/Win Brass

This is the same bullet designed for the 7.62x39's, and is of stitzer design.... with the above load it will group under an inch with any of four rifles at 75 yards.... two of those guns having only aperture sights! Been extremely cold and overcast here, so haven't chronographed this load yet, but am thinking its between 1800 and 2000 fps. With anealled noses this load has proven to be very detrimental to a couple coyote's health :D Again, this load is about the same noise factor as a .22 magnum!

Tried the same load with the 140gFNGC and had very similar results.... it's just that the SP design of the 135's feeds so nicely in those old Springfield 03's, and are great fun in these old "sporterized" rifles from a bygone age. Fun stuff.

God Bless,

Sasquatch,

Also recently been playing with more .30-06 loads in the off season. Have found another that shoots superbly in four different 06's in our stables.

BTB .310"-135gSPGC/24.0g 2400/CCI 200/Win Brass

This is the same bullet designed for the 7.62x39's, and is of stitzer design.... with the above load it will group under an inch with any of four rifles at 75 yards.... two of those guns having only aperture sights! Been extremely cold and overcast here, so haven't chronographed this load yet, but am thinking its between 1800 and 2000 fps. With anealled noses this load has proven to be very detrimental to a couple coyote's health :D Again, this load is about the same noise factor as a .22 magnum!

Tried the same load with the 140gFNGC and had very similar results.... it's just that the SP design of the 135's feeds so nicely in those old Springfield 03's, and are great fun in these old "sporterized" rifles from a bygone age. Fun stuff.

God Bless,

All I can say is "WOW!"!

30-06 with .22 Mag noise?

Nice, want more details, pictures.

I use a lee 150 grain fp with the gas check shank removed. It weighs in at 155 grains sized and lubed. In a 30 30 it shoots great with 15 grains of IMR or H 4227. It also does well with 9.5 of unique. It should do well in any 30 cal with the right powder charge.

I don't reload so I can't offer any recipes here. As far as favorite's for small game, I'm in the processing of buying a .357 Mag lever action rifle and I can't wait to take it bunny hunting in heavy brush. It's sure to be fast shooting and a good time!

I'd be interested in any reduced loads for the 444 Marlin using a 240 gr. cast bullet. Again, would you use a filler?

Hmmmmm..... bet we can convert you to a handloader once you start popping primers in that little levergun!

God Bless,

I don't reload so I can't offer any recipes here. As far as favorite's for small game, I'm in the processing of buying a .357 Mag lever action rifle and I can't wait to take it bunny hunting in heavy brush. It's sure to be fast shooting and a good time!

You can't beat a fine .357 carbine loaded with quality hard cast bullets loaded mildly to hunt bunnies!! It sure is a blast and does better than any .22 when used in brush. Marshall's suggestion is fantastic although I prefer to load mine in .357 Mag brass just to keep from getting a fouling ring in my chamber from using 38 brass. What you esentially have is a 22 on steroids and is just as cheap to shoot if you can get into loading your own sometime. You can also use that .357 to hunt deer up to 100yds too you know with full power loads!!

Marshall,

Would you suggest using your .224 60gr bullets in a .22 Hornet? I have a Ruger #1 with a 1-14" twist and have considered doing so. I don't know if it would stabilize though? It looks like it would be a nice bullet to punch .22 holes in and out with minimal pelt damage. Any load suggestion?

Not who you aimed at, but have done a good bit of .22Hornet cast bullet loading.

With the 1:14 twist, you have a fighting chance for the 60gr. bullets to stabilize...OAL more improitant than actual weight.

Know from trials that a 1:16 twist will stabilize anything up to .55" long even at .22LR velocity...longer than that, and it won't. In jacketed format, that pretty much a 45gr. limit for a shapely pointed bullet...in cast, the Lyman #225414 (55gr.) is the upper limit (the flat nose seems to help).

HAve a miss-cut #255462 mold...they cut the gas check base too long...that thowns a 66gr. bullet from the alloy at hand. NO GO in a 1:16twist...stable in a 1:14 twist but inaccurate until driven over 1800fps.

So...lathed the bullets. Once they were .60", were shooting well from the 1:14 at 1000-1100fps. Once they were .53", were shooting well from the 1:16 twist at the same speed. Flipping them arround and making full wad cutters doesn't do a think for thaier ranging, but they smack small game down.

Simplest lite-load is 2.0gr. of Red Dot (1050fps)...no gas check needed, or accuracy differnce detected at these speeds.
------------
ANd I have to add...really dislike the cost of gas checks in .224"...
------
Beartooth's 60gr. bullet's length is listed in the "details" section. With a 1:14 twist, wouldn't expect wonders at .22LR speeds...at .22mag. speeds,expect it would work in a 1:14. Marshal, or anyone else who has used that one at these near-sonic speeds will have to comment...but generally, if I'm looking to shoot in the 1000-1200fps range, will take a shorter bullet option.

This thread is of great interest to me. I enjoy small-game cartridges and small-game loads for larger caliber cartridges. The interest in fillers surprised me.
For several Months now I have been working with Greg Mushials low velocity "Convective ignition" loads in the .30-30 and .30-30 Improved.
I have been favorably impressed with my results. I began working with Greg's data by tying to duplicate his loads for Alliant Unique, Hodgdon/IMR 4227 and Accurate Arms No. 2. Of these four powders A.A. No. 2 proved the most uniform and accurate across the board.
I have finally acquired a pound of Hodgdon Titewad to compare with Alliant Bullseye. This weekend to wind blew 25+ mph so I shot at 50 yards. The high winds caused trouble with my chronograph. I had to use sandbags on the stands to prevent the chronograph from blowing over. The shooting results were very satisfying.
I mounted a 6-24X target scope on my Marlin 336 .30-30 Improved for this less than scientific test. I used the Lyman 311291 170 grain round nose bullet as cast (.300" nose and .309" bands) and tumble lubed them with Lee liquid Alox. I did not apply a gas check. The bullets were seated to the crimp groove but were not crimped. I used Winchester large rifle primers. 5.0 gr. of Titewad gave me 1" to 1.25" groups at 50 yds. Moving up to 6.0 gr. of Titewad gave me shotgun patterns that exceed 6". 7.0 gr. of Titewad shot into one hole that is about .50 caliber. This 7.0-gr. load chronographed 1,166 fps with an E of 9 fps and a SD of 3 fps.
Switching to 4.5 gr. Alliant Bullseye again produced a one-hole group of about .50 caliber at 50 yards. This 4.5 grain Bullseye load chronographed at 917 fps with an E of 25 fps and a SD of 11 fps. An increase to 5.5 grains of Bullseye gave the same one hole group at 1,043 fps with an E of 20 fps and a Sd of 7 fps. Increasing the charge to 6.5 grains of Bullseye opened the groups to two inches. The 6.5-grain load gave 1,144 fps with an E of 19 fps and a SD of 8 fps.

My results with the standard .30-30 in the 16" Winchester Trapper gave similar results. The high winds were causing problems with the chronograph by then but the best load was 5.0 gr. of Hodgdon Titewad for 948 fps with an E of 12 fps and a SD of 6 fps. This shot a 3/4" group at fifty yards. This is good shooting for this rifle -and the shooter! The same load fired from a 10" TC Contender gave 877 fps. with an E of 3 fps and a Sd of 2 fps. With open sights my groups were not quite so small!

I you are looking for a load to practice your bench technique with a lever action rifle these will certainly test your skill. Any problems with trigger control, recoil management, or canting will be magnified in a very visible manner! Take a look at Greg's Web Site and see if there is not something there for you.

http://www.gmdr.com/

Interesting home test, William -

Tell me - you mentioned the comments on fillers at the beginning of your post. Did you use any kind of fillers on these tested loads?

Were you able to acertain the BHN of your bullets?

With the use of Lee Alox lube, did you notice any leading problems in your rifles at these comparative low velocity rounds?

Does your Marlin 30-30 have Microgroove or the Ballard rifling?

Thanks for the above information. Sounds like you had a great time, in spite of the heavy crosswinds. Ain't it fun when you have to stake/weigh the chrono's down to keep from being blown over?! :D

Kdub

I did not use fillers. Greg has been trying to educate me but i am a slow learner! With the medium burn pistol powders such as Unique a filler can improve results. with the faster powders fillers are not necassary. I should have mentioned that I carried the ammunition in zip loc bags and no effort was made to orient the powder charge. I just picked them up and stuffed them in the chamber.

18 BHN by my Lee tester.

There was no evidence of leading in any of the three guns. The Marlin's microgroove rifling is pretty smooth. This rifle has been shot a lot. The Winchesterv Trapper came to me very smooth. The 10" TC barrel required a lot of break in. It is smooth now. none of these barrels have been lapped.

I have been slow and reluctant to come around to these fast powder loads. My father has used Bullseye in the .45-70 without fillers for many years. He claims there is no better way to perfect your off-hand work than light loads.

My bullets are .309" on the bands. Greg is using Oregon Trail bullets which are sized .309".

One thing about West Texas, if you dont shoot in the wind you dont shoot!

Tell me about the wind, William - !

I was born in Hobbs, NM and grew up there, with some time in Odessa! :D

I'm getting off topic here but i never dreamed I would live East of the Pecos.... i thought there were dragons out here in the wild country. I am from Corrales. I went to collage at ENMUR in Roswell, Lived on Portales peanuts!

I'd be interested in any reduced loads for the 444 Marlin using a 240 gr. cast bullet. Again, would you use a filler?


So, no one shoot reduced loads in the 444? :confused:

Sorry, thought I put a link in there.
I'll post some other light .444 loads in a moment if I can find them. I have shot quite a bit with Lyman bullets and both Unique and IMR 4227. The Lyman manual is the place to go for starting loads. Either the Reloading Manual or the Cast bullet book.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/otrail.htm

Edit: Here are two .444 loads that work well in my Timber rifle.

16.2 gr. of alliant unique with most any commercial cast bevel base SWC gets 1,495 fps with good accuracy and light recoil.

30.0 gr. of IMR 4227 pushes the Lyman 429640HP 1,615 fps and very good accuracy. This is a good load in my Winchester.

Thanks William. I'll try 'em!

I made two mistakes this weekend with my light loads for the .30-30 Improved. As reported above I had shot some groups of 3/4" at 50 yards in a 20-mph wind with my Marlin 336. My first batch of ammunition was made up without crimp for single loading. I want to feed these light loads through the magazine so I changed the load from no crimp to a light Lee factory crimp. This was the only change in this handload. I am using the Lyman 311291 bullet with no gas check and Lee liquid Alox. Winchester large rifle primers in R-P cases. With these crimped loads I could not get the bullets on the paper at 100 yards. At 50 yards accuracy with Alliant Bullseye opened up to two-inch groups. Hodgdon Titewad produced groups of eight inches with some bullets hitting the paper sideways.
5.5 grains of Bullseye gave 1028fps in the 20" Marlin 336 with an E of 15 and a Sd of 6 fps.
I had estimated that 5.0 grains of Titewad would give 997 fps. I got 977 fps with an E of 10 and a Sd of 7 fps.
7.0 grains of Titewad got 1160 fps with an E of 38 fps and a Sd of 16 fps.
A second ten shot string gave me 1167 fps with an E of 16 and a Sd of 6 fps.
Both 7.0-grain strings had several bullets keyholing at 50 yards.
I have saved some of these loads back and will load some more with no crimp to compare them. I am surprised at what a difference the addition of a light crimp made. The extra resistance from the crimp must be allowing gas to escape past the bullet, there was no leading. The charges are so light that the powder must be consumed in the case before the bullet enters the barrel.
This is great fun.

I'm interested in "light loads" for .357, 30-30, .22Hornet and .223 mostly for quiet shooting at coyotes.

Keep it coming!

Thanks.

I'm interested in "light loads" for .357, 30-30, .22Hornet and .223 mostly for quiet shooting at coyotes.

Keep it coming!

Thanks.

SAS, had a friend ask me recently about some subsonic loads for animal-control shooting down here. In Florida, you can get a permit to shoot coyote, feral dogs, pigs, etc. on private land - mostly ranches. Anyway, my friend wants the most effect subsonic round possible in a non-custom rifle.

Best I could think of off the top of my head was the little NEF single shot .357 - loaded with .38spl & .358" Hornady 180gr SPSSP bullets - maybe even heavier 35 caliber bullets at sub-sonic velocity. Anyone got better suggestions? He wants to be able to accurately shoot past 100 yards under some circumstances. He's also thinking to order a "CAN" or moderator after he gets his clearance from ATF to keep everything quiet... What works best within these restrictions?

TIA!!

.

.

.

The requirement to shoot past 100 yards makes things tricky for unmoderated quiet shooting.

Frank Marshal and Frank Kelly have both written about "Silent But Deadly Loads" in the Fouling Shot. Heavy bullets in the .30-30, .30-40 and even the .357 magnum and low velocity are quiet, accurate and penetrate all aout of perportion to their speed.

Below is a link to Greg Mushials web site. Take a look at his .30-30 load data. These loads work and are very quiet.

http://www.gmdr.com/

.

.

.[/QUOTE]

Tob e truely quiet, will need to keep velcity to about 1050fps or less. With a vel. limit, the only way to earn more power is to toss a heavier bullet. Trajectroy will be about the same, with some faore to the heavier weight bullet. 150gr. from the 30-30 at 1050fps isn't all that bad for 100yard shots, with a big flat tip prefered.

These bullets will bounch like a dribbled basketball downrange, exiting the critter of with a miss, and that can endanger a lot of landscape.

Maybe a .356, .358, or .35 Whelen could be found. Mt Baldy can make a 280 gr WLN bullet in 1 to 10 tin to lead. Lubed with SPG it could be lobbed at 1000 FPS for a good close range load. A legal can device should be quite compatible with such a load. Try fast pistol powder and if necessary the Dacron or dryer lint to hold powder to the primer portion of the case. The 1,00 fps may keep you from going above speed of sound on an extra hot day. Good luck and be safe. 'Dito

So, no one shoot reduced loads in the 444? :confused:

With a 240 grain cast pill I use 10.0 of either Blue Dot or Unigue. Both are fairly accurate, the Blue Dot load clocks just under 100 fps while the Unigue load is 200 fps faster. I also load a 300 grain cast bullet at 1200 fps using 11.0 grains of Unique.

Using a 405 grain cast bullet in 450 Marlin I load 11.0 of Titewad 0r 12.0 of Unique. The Titewad generates about 50 fps(1050) over Unique.

Using the same 405 grain cast bullet in a 45-70 I like 10.5 grains of Titegroup. It clocks around 1050 and is very accurate. 9.0 of Bullseye gives me 950 fps and 9.5 of Titewad clocks about 980 fps.

I really like the Titegroup and will experiment with it further. In light loads however, Unique, Blue Dot, and Green Dot have always given good results. I have also worked with Win 231 and Bullseye but don't get the accuracy as with the other powders. I have heard some good thinga about XMR 5744 but have not yet used it yet.

Hope this helps.

I use Universal Clays in my 358 Win and a wide variety of 9MM and 357 pistol bullets for this purpose. However, my best round is the 7.62X39 in a CZ 527 carbine using .312 pistol bullets.

With a 240 grain cast pill I use 10.0 of either Blue Dot or Unigue. Both are fairly accurate, the Blue Dot load clocks just under 100 fps while the Unigue load is 200 fps faster. I also load a 300 grain cast bullet at 1200 fps using 11.0 grains of Unique.

Using a 405 grain cast bullet in 450 Marlin I load 11.0 of Titewad 0r 12.0 of Unique. The Titewad generates about 50 fps(1050) over Unique.

Using the same 405 grain cast bullet in a 45-70 I like 10.5 grains of Titegroup. It clocks around 1050 and is very accurate. 9.0 of Bullseye gives me 950 fps and 9.5 of Titewad clocks about 980 fps.

I really like the Titegroup and will experiment with it further. In light loads however, Unique, Blue Dot, and Green Dot have always given good results. I have also worked with Win 231 and Bullseye but don't get the accuracy as with the other powders. I have heard some good thinga about XMR 5744 but have not yet used it yet.

Hope this helps.

Lindsey,

Thanks for the info. Since I asked this question, I have loaded 10.5 grs. of Unique with 240 gr. SWC Oregon Trail bullets and have liked the results: low recoil and muzzle blast and fairly good accuracy, good enough for plinking and practicing different shooting positions I might encounter while hunting. You've got me interested in the 300 grain load as I have some of those coming from BTB. At 1200 fps, that load should be great for short range hunting of deer and antelope. I would be interested in knowing your results with Titegroup when you have those available. Thanks again.

I've just completed working up a small game load for my 348 Win. using .350 balls, Alox lubed, AA5744, and WW large pistol primer. Pistol primers, as Sky C. previously reported, seem to provide much better accuracy with 5744 than rifle primers.

It has turned out to exceedingly accurate and a 10 grain load gave me a 5 shot group measuring 5/8" outside diameter at 25 yds. It is very quiet and should serve as a grouse load while also hunting big game.

It does not shoot to same point of aim as my 255 grain hinting load, being 3" low at 25yds.

This difference was overcome by using a modified 1" diameter target eyepiece in my Williams FP receiver sight.

I loosened and raised the sight and screwed in the eyepiece tight to determine a line at which to grind away a portion of the lower side of the eyepiece to provide rifle bolt clearance.

A second aperture was drilled (3/32) just so it would clear the top center of the eyepiece retainer on the top of the FP. Using this new aperture brought the light load to center bull using a 6 o'clock hold on a 2 " bull, again, at 25 yards.

A spin off benefit of this second hole is that using it with the heavy hunting load places that load center bull at 225 yards so I now have a sight with both 100 yard and 225 yard zeroes being simultaneously available.

I use .360 diameter hard lead balls [HTWW] over 4 grains of Red Dot in my .357 single shot. Seat the ball all the way down, right on top of the powder. I use a pencil or wooden dowel. Very effective on small game. Subsonic. Very quiet.

I happened to be skimming through an old issue of Handloader magazine (October 2002) last night and came across a short article on reduced loads with H-4895. Apparently, the company came out with what they call a "60 per cent rule" where you can take 60% of the maximum load listed in Hodgdon's reloading manual for this powder for any cartridge and use that as a reduced load. I had earlier expressed interest in reduced loads for the 444, thinking that full power loads for that cartridge were not needed for smaller game like deer and antelope, and if one could come up with a light recoiling accurate load using midweight bullets of around 265 grs., that would be useful.

Coincidentally, I received my order of BTB 44 caliber bullets last night in 240, 265, and 300 grs. I plan on using that powder and these bullets to experiment with reduced loads to come up with a accurate combination for lighter game. If anyone has sone so before, please share that information. Thanks.

I am glad this thread was resurected - great stuff!!!

Since my last post, I have tried some load using H-4895 and the BTB 265 gr. WFN. The first was 60% of the max load listed in the Hodgdon manual (32.5 grains). The accuracy was good at 80 yards, but each empty case had about a dozen unburned pieces of powder. Thinking that maybe I wasn't getting enough pressure to burn all the powder I upped the charge to 70% (37.5 grains), and I still ended up with unburned powder in each case. Looking in the bore I found unburned powder in there. Accuracy was still good at 100 yards at about 2 inches. I'm wondering if I should use magnum primers.

Anybody have any suggestions? Is the 18.5 inch barrel just too short to burn all the powder? Should I not even worry about it?

Back in the 1960's I used Sierra's 63 gr. semi-spitzer in a .222 Remington. Killed a deer with it once. The bullet is short enough that it stabilized fairly well in the old [1950's} L-46 SAKO. You might want to try it if the longer 60 gr. spitzers don't work well.

Thought since hunting seasons are winding down for big game, we might post some fun loads for the off-season!

A couple of my favorites are here:

.38 Spcl. .358"-160g FNBB/6.2g AA #5/WSPP/Any Brass/+P Load/1200 fps in Carbines Very accurate in both carbines and revolvers... haven't chonographed revolvers.

.44 Mag .44-240g WFNPB/10.0g Universal Clays/WLPP/Any Brass/1050 fps Nice mild load, very accurate.

.30-30 .30-115g FNPB/7.0g Blue Dot/Any Lg Rifle Primer/Any Brass/1200-1300 fps duplicates .32-20 factory load-very accurate, very fun!

.30-06 .30-115g FNPB/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass 1200 fps load that is about as quiet as .22 mag., accurate and inexpensive!

.30-06 .30-145g FNGC/30.0g H4227/Any Primer/Any Brass.  Very accurate load of about 2000 fps that is very pleasant to shoot, low pressure and very effective large varmit load!

.223 Remington/.22-60g SPGC/10.0g Unique/Any Primer/Any Brass/2000 fps/ Duplicates .22 Magnum load.  Very accurate in most guns with 1:10" or faster rifling, fairly quiet, and fun to shoot.  Very effective on large varmints.

These are just a few of my favorite off-season loads.

How about others?  What do you shoot in your big guns to plink?

Blessings for fun in a new year!

God Bless,

Marshall
Marshal,
I like that 30/30 load with the 115 grain FN bullet.Could you possibly suggest something with Red Dot or Bullseye? And with or without Dacron?
Thanks,
Frank

I have used round ball for years as a small game/plinking load. Work best in rimmed cartridges. Here are a few:

.45/70: .451 or .454 round ball seated down in the case over 25 to 30 grains of FFFg BP. Using a lube cookie or wad will help cut down fouling if you are going to fire more than a couple of rounds. This is pretty much the same as the military gallery/practice load from the 1870/1880 time period. Accuracy is pretty good out to 20 yards or so.

.30/30: .310 ball (buy 'em from Hornady if you don't cast your own) over 4 to 8 grains of Unique. Use Lee's liquid alox as a lube.

.44 Magnum and .444 Marlin: .430 ball over 5 to 10 grains of Unique.

.375 Winchester: .375 ball over 5 to 10 grains Unique.

All balls are lubed with Lee liquid alox lube, except the .45/70 with BP. Best accuracy seems to come at lower levels- Lyman suggests a minmum charge of 15 grains of Unique with the .375, but IME it isn't very accurate.

Frank,

In the .30-30 using the 115gFNPB bullet try using 4.5 grains of Red Dot. It will still generate about 1100 fps, but is very quiet, and really economical!

Let me know how they shoot!

Charley,

In the .45-70 and .458 Winchester, try using the .457" round balls designed for use in the Ruger Old Army revolvers.... these tend to fit the bore better, and deliver much tighter accuracy than using the .451" RB's in my experience!

God Bless,

Frank,

In the .30-30 using the 115gFNPB bullet try using 4.5 grains of Red Dot. It will still generate about 1100 fps, but is very quiet, and really economical!

Let me know how they shoot!

Charley,

In the .45-70 and .458 Winchester, try using the .457" round balls designed for use in the Ruger Old Army revolvers.... these tend to fit the bore better, and deliver much tighter accuracy than using the .451" RB's in my experience!

God Bless,
Marshall,
Thanks,a lot
Frank

Frank,

Forgot to anwer regarding the fillers. The .30-30 case is small enough that the load using Red-Dot listed above doesn't seem to matter one way or the other whether the dacron/polyester filler is present.... so for me, I keep it simple, skip the filler!

God Bless,

Charley,

In the .45-70 and .458 Winchester, try using the .457" round balls designed for use in the Ruger Old Army revolvers.... these tend to fit the bore better, and deliver much tighter accuracy than using the .451" RB's in my experience!

God Bless,


I know. Just too cheap to buy a .457 mold or .457 RB, when I have .451 on hand. Just following the US government's lead. The original gallery practice loads for the .45/70 were made from recovered components from percussion revolver ammunition the US held from the War of Northern Aggression.

Yikes,

I thought I was only one that tight! :D :D

Wyonative, I doubt if the barrel length is causing the unburned powder. If anything, you would be getting a large muzzle flash, rather than the unburned powder. Using rifle powder for reduced loads often leads to unburned powder in large cpacity cases. You might try some other powder to build a lighter load. There is a site that has some good reduced load info. I will post this, then get the address and post it. (it may already be on this thread?)

I found it, try
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/otrail.htm

Round balls are great fun/plinking/small game loads.

I had once considered having a barrel built with a .41 Long Colt chamber and a .375 bore so I could take advantage of common .375 round balls & molds. Then I found out how much .41 brass cost and changed my mind. Why it should cost 3-4 times as much as other calibers I can not understand.

Is anyone at Starline listening?

Does anyone have any info on reduced loads using Universal powder? I have recently come into some, have been using it for medium range pistol loads, but got to thinking if it would be a good reduced load powder for rifles. Of particular interest to me is if it tends to like a filler like Unique does to burn clean and consistantly, or does it do well without a filler. I load reduced loads for 45/70, 30/06, 30/30, and will start 375 H&H. Any info on Universal's suitability compared to Unique would be appreciated.

Wow, this thread has run almost 4 years? Better get my $0.02 worth.

The 30-06 held my attention for years and I've found a plinking load that might interest others.

What I call shotgun powders never gave great results, SR4759 when re-released in 1975 did. So here is a load to try!

Lyman 31141 cast lead (linotype) should weigh about 160grs. if using linotype metal. Hornady crimp-on gas checks worked better that the Lyman gc. Weigh all the bullets, sort all to 0.1gr. groups. Keep the largest group of bullets weighing within 0.1gr. Others can either be remelted or used for less accurate shooting. Size and lube (with Alox) to 0.308 in. SR4759 charge was 16grs. in my Remington 700. Use a 1gr. dacron pillow to hold the powder charge on top of the primer. I think you can still find the dacron in sewing shops, ask the wife! With a little practice you can pull a little tuff, place it on the scale, and then push it into the case and down on top of the powder charge. CCI 200 primers were used in the 30-06 cases. Seat the bullets in the cases so they engage the rifling about 1/16 of an inch. CAUTION!! If for any reason you open the action with a bullet seated this way, it could REMAIN in the barrel!!!! The next attempt to cycle another round could prove interesting if the stuck bullet is not REMOVED FIRST!!! DO NOT TRY SHOOTING THE STUCK BULLET OUT. If this does not compute, you are in the wrong hobby.

This load was cheaper than shooting .22 rimfires, no recoil, very little muzzle blast (quiet), and would group under 1" at 100yrds.

Hoopie,

This thread is of great interest to me. I enjoy small-game cartridges and small-game loads for larger caliber cartridges. The interest in fillers surprised me.
For several Months now I have been working with Greg Mushials low velocity "Convective ignition" loads in the .30-30 and .30-30 Improved. ...

You might be interested in these links:

Silent Force (http://home.earthlink.net/~hwsportsman/SilentForce.html)

SSK's Whispers (http://quarterbore.com/300whisper/sskwhisper.html)

7.62x39 "Combloc" Whisper (http://www.nfa.ca/nfafiles/cfjarchive/firearms/quietercoyoterifle.html)

Suppressed Rifle Cartridges (http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun/ammo/by_cal/sup_rif/supp_rifle.html)

I'm coming in a year late on this thread - but it popped up in the "similar Threads" section, so...

May I invite you all to read a couple of my articles on reduced loads? Goto my page www.reloadingroom.com and surf around a bit, please.

If you have questions, I'll be waiting right here...

.45-70 with a 300 grain cast bullet and 16 grains Unique.

I just hate reading threads like this. Now I'm thinking I'm going to have to get a mold for the 308 and the 280, I've already got one for the 8mm. I'm going to get some filler material for the 8mm rem mag. I bought a 175 grain semi-spitzer for it last year and it's sitting in the reloading drawer. I cast up a hundred bullets for it, but never went any further. I needed gas checks and didn't get any, but with those 1200 or less fps loads I wouldn't need any.

Both the grand daughters would enjoy shooting reduced loads, what great practice and fun that would be. Heck I would enjoy shooting reduced loads in all three guns. Now wouldn't a couple of lee molds make a good Christmas present. You hear that moma?

91Carcano, I think I'd be looking at the opposite end of the powder spectrum for your very light bullet small game loads. I've always had great luck with pistol powders in such loads, especially Red Dot, Blue Dot and 2400 (in ascending velocity order).

You could start with as low as 3.5 grains of Red and work up to as much as 13.0 for loads that go between 700 fps and 1500. You can then pick up with about 10.0 of Blue Dot and go up to perhaps 16.0. From there, you start with 2400 in the range of 17.0 to 23.0 which will take you up into the 2200 fps range with your little 80-grain slug.

For a small game load with your 80-gr bullet, I'd try 7.0 Red Dot first.

No fillers needed, but if using a dab of dacron or toilet paper over some of the very light charges of RedDot gives you confidence, that's OK by me.