Hi

Please, let me know your opinion (accuracy, robustness, precision, cleaning)about the Hi Standard Tournament supermatic model 107 barrel 6 3/4" cal .22LR versus S&W model 41 or Browning Buck mark Bullseye, silhouette or medalist.
Is Hi Standard the best choice ?

Do you experiment problems with the feeding of some cartridges in the Hi Standard Tournament Supermatic .22 LR model 107 barrel 6 3/4" ?
If others problems, let me know.

Thank you
J.C.Meunier
Belgium

[QUOTE=J.C. MEUNIER]Hi

JC,

I assume that you are going to do some form of target shooting with this pistol. I have many years and 10's of thousands of rounds of experience with 22 pistols. I have shot in a local 22 pistol league 4 times in the last couple of years. Of those 4 times I won the league 3 times. This was an unlimited competition, meaning that any 22 pistol with any modifications and any optics could be used. We fired at 7,15, and 25 yards. The pistol I used to win this league 3 times out of 4 is a Ruger 22/45 with a millet red dot sight. Keep in mind that I was shooting against veteran shooters using, Hammerlis, Sigs, S&W 41's, etc. I have shot a few Browning Buckmarks and was not impressed. Also keep in mind that you can buy any modificaton you can think of for the Rugers, and any competent Gunsmith should have experience working on them. They are a fantastic design, and I personnly know that they will shoot as good as any 22 pistol I have ever seen. Mine has had over 15,000 rounds through it and I could still go out tomorrow and win another championship with it. If you are interested in a Ruger just let me know here on the forum and I will gladly tell you what small modificatons I did. If you want a pistol that shoots well, lasts forever and is resonably priced you can't beat the rugers. This obviously includes all the many variations, both 22/45 and markII. Good luck, hope this helps.

I had the S&W model22a...sold it and got a buckmark, wasn't impressed...Sold it, pocketed some cash and bought the Walther P22 in 5"
shoots nice, but the sights are not as refined as a S&W or Browning...they use a W I D E 3dot system that is ok, but not great. Excellent for plinking though.

Sig Trailside
superior to any other rimfire I've seen for the price, or three times the price. It might well be worth your while to take a look at one. It is a superb pistol out of the box, no need to modify it like the most popular .22 auto..which will never match it's accuracy no matter what you do, within reason. These pistols do not leave the factory if they don't shoot, can't say the same for any of the others. A better pistol than the M41 WAS, in my view.

If you want a M41, I would take a look at used models that are at least 10 years old. They have been very unimpressive, epsecially for the price, for quite some time. Not trying to disrespect the M41, but most of them I've seen lately have been a very poor example of what they used to be.

I have a 22/45 and a MkII Target (first handgun), they are great pistols, but there is no comparison to the Trailside. None whatsoever.

Meunier,
I have a Sig and it rocks. That is all I am gonna say.

Recko

[QUOTE=J.C. MEUNIER]

If you are interested in a Ruger just let me know here on the forum and I will gladly tell you what small modificatons I did.
<br><br>
Please tell !
Inquiring minds want to know.

<br><br>
Please tell !
Inquiring minds want to know.

Thank you for your suggestions but reading the comments,
it seems that the best .22 pistol is Sig Trailside or SW 41.
I will try these now.
Thank you and sorry for the response delay but I was
for a week in the mountains (alpine skiing).
J.C.MEUNIER

How much can cost a walther p22 in US$ ???

I don't think they are even as much as $350 around here. I got mine used, but in near new shape for $250

i read somewhere that some gun ranges that rent handguns out to the public like the ruger MKII, as some have gone a million rounds. that's robust.their accuracy is up with the best of 'em. but it boils down to what feels good in your hand (the MKII points high for me but the 22/45 feels great), and if you may want some kind of optics for it down the road (some are easy to put scopes on, and some are not).

monty

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=9225

Call me biased (because I am!) but I did a lot of research and haunted a lot of gun shops before I bought my Buck Mark, and ten+ years later, I'm sure I got the right one for me. Mine has the gorgeous wood grips, which just makes the gun snuggle down in my hand and purr like a kitten. It begs to be shot, and I indulge it often. I even put a 4X LER scope on it to test loads, and if I told you how good they are, you'd call me a liar. Off a solid rest, that little booger will hit a wasp at 25 yards, every time. I know, because there are about 250 wasps that came to an untimely end over some Root Beer I put on my backstop last summer.
So how good are the other guns you mentioned? I don't know, I bought the Buck Mark, and I'm sticking to it! :D
PJ

I followed Papa John's advice, and just yesterday arrived
home with a brand new Browning Buck Mark Classic Plus
SE, with the 5.5 bull barrel. This one has the beautiful
Rosewood Laminate grips, with the Tru-Glo "Hi-Viz"
front sight. NIB and OTD for $280 ain't half bad. Of
course, I work for a Browning distributor.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member



Call me biased (because I am!) but I did a lot of research and haunted a lot of gun shops before I bought my Buck Mark, and ten+ years later, I'm sure I got the right one for me. Mine has the gorgeous wood grips, which just makes the gun snuggle down in my hand and purr like a kitten. It begs to be shot, and I indulge it often. I even put a 4X LER scope on it to test loads, and if I told you how good they are, you'd call me a liar. Off a solid rest, that little booger will hit a wasp at 25 yards, every time. I know, because there are about 250 wasps that came to an untimely end over some Root Beer I put on my backstop last summer.
So how good are the other guns you mentioned? I don't know, I bought the Buck Mark, and I'm sticking to it! :D
PJ

If you want a M41, I would take a look at used models that are at least 10 years old. My S&W 41 was made in '75 so I guess it's at least 10 years old. It has the 7" barrel adaptable for muzzle brake or false muzzle. IMHO it is still one of the finest .22 caliber target pistols ever made for bullseye shooting. I paid a whopping $137 for it new in the box. This is when brand new Colt Government Models were selling for $125 so I thought about it a lot before coming up with the cash. If something were to happen to my 41 today, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.

I bought a used, but in excellent condition, P22 a few weeks ago. I've shot several hundred rounds through it so far without any problems. Got it mainly because it was relatively small and light. My 8-year-old loves to shoot it!

I have a High Standard Citation Military Model, a S&W Model 46 and a S&W Model 41. For me I get the best accuracy from the High Standard followed by the Model 41 Smith. It could be just that I had shot the High Standard so much before getting the S&W, that it just seems like an extension of my arm and is a natural pointer.

Lee L.

I went thru this same deal last year. I wanted a accurate 22 to target shoot, small game and so on. I have a Ruger MK 1 tappered barrel target. A good shooter but a real pain in the a.. to take apart. After posting around the consensus was the S&W 617 10 shot. And that is what I own. There are a lot of autos out there that will really shoot, if you can do your part. To me a revolver da action is back to the basics, thats what I did

Jim n Iowa:
I think most of us have just come to the point of using Autoloader .22's that we forget all about our wheel guns. I haven't fired my K-22 for over 5 years, and tend to forget about it. But you are right, a good wheel gun is hard to beat. I know that I enjoy shooting my N frame .45 ACP, just never consider taking a .22 along when I go to the range, unless I am going to shoot .22's.

Lee L.

Hi,

I recently bought the new browning buck mark target
in stainless. I have been to the range with it 6 times it shoots
incredably accurate. I was pleasantly impressed. I also own a ruger markII. It also shoots well,but i gotta say i prefer the browning...

Hi,

I recently bought the new browning buck mark target
in stainless. I have been to the range with it 6 times it shoots
incredably accurate. I was pleasantly impressed. I also own a ruger markII. It also shoots well,but i gotta say i prefer the browning...

I have shot the Ruger but not the Browning. May I ask what it is you prefer about the Browning over the Ruger? Is it the accuracy, or overall performance? I am looking for one for my dad, but can think which one to get him. Keep in mind too ha has bad arthritis in his hands and will need something with an easy working slide.

I have two Browning Buckmarks. One is a standard model from about 1986, the other is a 5.5 Target with a Burris 1.5-4x PosiLock scope. I also have a S&W 617 10 shot revolver, and two Ruger Single Six 50th Anniversary models. I'd gotten rid of all the other .22's.

The Buckmarks, in general, are among the most accurate handguns that I've handled. My 5.5 Target with the 1.5-4x scope is the most accurate and reliable handgun I've ever shot. It will basically shoot 10 shot groups into one ragged hole from a rest at 25 yards with at least three or four different types of ammo, including CCI MiniMags. It will easily outshoot my S&W 617 and any other Ruger I've ever tried. I also have a couple of friends that have Buckmark Target models with red dot sights that are incredibly accurate too.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a Buckmark to anyone.

Ruger MKII or .22/45. oodles of goodies available for either and accurate enough for all but the highest levels of competition. i've got a slabside 678 GC w/Leupold 2x (deadly) but use my .22/45 with Matchdot (ultradot) more. easier to carry. Ruger says not to, but i feed mine nothing but CCI Stingers (i shoot gophers 99% of the time)

monty

RUGER MKII... one of the best choices

I have a Buckmark and love it. I was looking for a Ruger Mk II when I found the Buckmark because in the past I have really liked the Mk II and that is what I learned to shoot on.

Try both and see which fits your hand best. They are both very, very good pistols. I still want a Mk II to go with the Browning. :)

I followed Papa John's advice, and just yesterday arrived
home with a brand new Browning Buck Mark Classic Plus
SE, with the 5.5 bull barrel. This one has the beautiful
Rosewood Laminate grips, with the Tru-Glo "Hi-Viz"
front sight. NIB and OTD for $280 ain't half bad. Of
course, I work for a Browning distributor.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

here is a news flash for you. If it is a Tru Glo, it anit a Hi Viz. Tru glo is made by marble. If the tube is green that is all you can get. I have a hi viz for my ruger and it comes with green and red tubes. If it is made by marble you will have to contact browning and ask them for some more green tubes because that is all that is made for it. John

My S&W 41 was made in '75 so I guess it's at least 10 years old. It has the 7" barrel adaptable for muzzle brake or false muzzle. IMHO it is still one of the finest .22 caliber target pistols ever made for bullseye shooting. I paid a whopping $137 for it new in the box. This is when brand new Colt Government Models were selling for $125 so I thought about it a lot before coming up with the cash. If something were to happen to my 41 today, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.


Marshall, even though this reply is a year late I will tell you my experience with recently made M41's will make you sorely dissapointed if you have to buy a new one to replace your original. Fit, finish, accuracy, trigger are all sub-par compared to the earlier models I have fired. The very latest one I handled, today by coincidence, seemed a step up from the ones made in the late 90's but I did not get to shoot this one. :(


Question for you guys shooting fiber optic type sights. I understand the advantages for field use, but how do they work for serious target shooting? Seems like you would loose some precision over a standard set of black sights?

Marshall, even though this reply is a year late I will tell you my experience with recently made M41's will make you sorely dissapointed if you have to buy a new one to replace your original. Fit, finish, accuracy, trigger are all sub-par compared to the earlier models I have fired. The very latest one I handled, today by coincidence, seemed a step up from the ones made in the late 90's but I did not get to shoot this one. :(


Question for you guys shooting fiber optic type sights. I understand the advantages for field use, but how do they work for serious target shooting? Seems like you would loose some precision over a standard set of black sights?

Good evening kciH

My experience with fiber optic sights is they are designed for field use. I spent a bunch of years shooting both small bore and large bore pistol and using patridge sights for a six O clock hold on a bulls eye target has always been more accurate for me. When field or game shooting the fibre optics work well as your holding where the bullet will hit.

Good evening kciH

My experience with fiber optic sights is they are designed for field use. I spent a bunch of years shooting both small bore and large bore pistol and using patridge sights for a six O clock hold on a bulls eye target has always been more accurate for me. When field or game shooting the fibre optics work well as your holding where the bullet will hit.


I understand the basics of what you are saying. The thing I wonder about, taking into account that there is no problem making your bullets hit at the top center of standard set of sights like one would use for bullseye shooting, is how the fiber optic sights work in that situation. Most of the fiber sights I see on pistols have a fiber optic insert simply put in the standard square sight so it is still surrounded by the black metal like you would have when it is not there. I would think than in varying light conditions that it would impede precision shooting because your eye might be a bit confused where top of the front sight is....is it the top of the sight, or the top of the glowy round part...unless you re-zero every time you shoot.Seems to me, with my ML at least, that varing light conditions can cause varying point of impact with the fiber sights depending on how bright it is when shooting...the brighter it is the "bigger" the front bead looks...to me at least. Not making an argument for or against...just curious if the fiber sights are much good for true precision (target) shooting.

I have always sighted in for a six O clock hold, but meaning to also hit at six O clock. Not in the middle of the bull. That way I can always see what I am aiming at and not covering it up with the sight. I try to get my shots to be just about 1/4" above where I hold.

The fiber optic sights are great for shotguns, but on a rifle they do change the look of how big they are depending on how bright it is outside.

Good evening kciH

My experience with fiber optic sights is they are designed for field use. I spent a bunch of years shooting both small bore and large bore pistol and using patridge sights for a six O clock hold on a bulls eye target has always been more accurate for me. When field or game shooting the fibre optics work well as your holding where the bullet will hit.

Bob,
I certainly agree with you on this matter. A good black undercut type front sight adusted for a 6 o'clock hold is what I use for all bullseye type shooting, with the exception of the rapid fire stage. I sight and hold dead on for that as there is no time to mess about. Personally that works best for me, but it is different for others I know.

I have kind of gotten bitten by the bullseye bug as of late, done worlds of good for all my handgun shooting.

One thing I've seen since the advent of the fibre optic sights for revolvers and pistols is the learning curve for acceptable accuracy from these weapons is much shorter than properly aligning patridge sights. This is also why the three dot white dot and trituim sights are so popular.

I really don't think that properly used patridge sights can be beat for ultamate accuracy for target shooting or for any pistol/revolver shooting if the shooter knows how to use them properly.

The big if is learning how to use the patridge sight properly. This takes much more discipline and practice than any of the three dot sights including the fibre optic sights.

One of the things I've personally experienced in my later years is as my eyes grow older and the fact that I do not compete on a regular basis any more the patridge sights have become harder for me to use. I believe this is because of focusing issues of failing eyes.

I have a set of the fibre optic sights on a Remington 700 ML and they work fine, but would prefer a scope if it was allowed. I restrict this muzzle loader to ranges under 125 yards. I just bought a new Mossberg 835 turkey gun and it came equiped with the fibre Optic sights and we'll see how it works. I think I will probably put another aimpoint in this as they are legal for turkey hunting in Idaho.

The last few years I shot small bore pistol competition I used an Aimpoint 5000 with a one minute dot on a competition tuned Ruger Mark II. This was the most accurate pistol sight system I've ever used and made shooting with old eyes a real pleasure.

One thing for sure is shooting any type of competition is such great practice for any kind of hunting. I can't tell you how many folks I see at the range who plain just cant hit anything. They shoot at the range and are basically plinking without any real goals of increasing their ability. Most are just throwing ammo down range.

The years I spent competing were some of the best times in my life and led to some real progress in my ability to be a better hunter.

Keep shooting.

Well what is the best? Rugers are up there (some), There is nothing better than a wheel gun! I have an old H&R 9 shot target .22LR that is the B@LLS. It took some time getting use to the fact that the arm for the action is exposed. I thought, this is a sub standard piece of cr@p. Man did I change my mind Quick!! I did drill and re-tap windage on the rear sight, but it is super accurate. I love iron sights, Nothing but Iron. Lots of Fun! JP

I went thru this same deal last year. I wanted a accurate 22 to target shoot, small game and so on. I have a Ruger MK 1 tappered barrel target. A good shooter but a real pain in the a.. to take apart. After posting around the consensus was the S&W 617 10 shot. And that is what I own. There are a lot of autos out there that will really shoot, if you can do your part. To me a revolver da action is back to the basics, thats what I did
That's exactly what I did, too. I've had a lot of .22 semi-autos, several of which were quite accurate. But I just kind of got burned out on them. Today, brought home a Model 617, 6 inch barrel, 10 shot. Haven't even fired it yet, but I know I will love it. Single action letoff is as good as any of the Smith centerfire revolvers I used to own and work on, AFTER I'd worked on them!

Kinda funny, the little hummer weighs just 3-1/2 oz. less, empty weight, than a 6-1/2 inch barrel Model 29.

Feels very good in my hand, I KNOW it will hit what I aim at.

eljay

Eljay, I have the same gun. Haven't shot it yet either. Did do some trigger work just to lighten it a bit, but it was already good right out of the box. Can't wait to shoot it.

You guys are going to love that 617. A little feed back, the rear sight fastening screw (closet to the forcing cone) may need to be filed flush to the frame. Some protrude and may cause a lead build up in that area. I bought this one thinking what a great pistol to leave to my grandson. Now I have another, so S&W just made a easy sale.
Jim

Thanks for the info Jim. I just checked mine and it does stick through about 1/2 a thread. I'll file that thing down right now. What made you notice yours? Any issues because of it?

Mk II.............Need I say more?

Eljay, I have the same gun. Haven't shot it yet either. Did do some trigger work just to lighten it a bit, but it was already good right out of the box. Can't wait to shoot it.
We have great taste, don't we? ;-) Trigger is so crisp and light on mine, I'm going to shoot it for a while just as is. Can't wait. If only the gail force winds would die down (actually, the only reason I didn't take it out today in spite of the wind was the abundance of grandkids visiting, and my range is just too close...).

Checked that screw, it's obviously been ground flush, by S&W, before it left their shop.

Good shooting, I'll be anxious to hear how it works for you.

eljay

You guys are going to love that 617. A little feed back, the rear sight fastening screw (closet to the forcing cone) may need to be filed flush to the frame. Some protrude and may cause a lead build up in that area. I bought this one thinking what a great pistol to leave to my grandson. Now I have another, so S&W just made a easy sale.
Jim
Jim, when I read your post I checked mine. It has clearly been ground flush, by S&W, before leaving their shop. Thanks for the tip.

I know I'm going to love it. First new S&W I've bought in maybe 20 years, feels like old times. I'm a happy camper, and haven't even shot it yet. :-)

David

Mk II.............Need I say more?
An outstanding gun, for sure. I've owned several. In fact, back when I was competing on a weekly basis at the local club, traded a S&W 41 for a Mk 2 Target Bull Barrel, which I shot for several years. I worked on the Clark trigger a bit, and it was a joy to shoot, and more accurate than I ever could be.

Great choice.

eljay

I owned a Buckmark for years & loved it ! It was a honest pistol & never gave me any grief ! In the hands of a good shot it was supurb (in mine it shot ....well great ) I do think think that the Ruger Mk11 &1 always gave more bang for the Buck as it were ! I would nt even consider the Mk111 though as I don't think their worth the money & let the Ruger name down badley !

Dave

I had the S&W model22a...sold it and got a buckmark, wasn't impressed...Sold it, pocketed some cash and bought the Walther P22 in 5"
shoots nice, but the sights are not as refined as a S&W or Browning...

Well since that original post in 2004, i've sold the P22 to a friend and got a great deal on a buckmark standard. It is the one with the slabside 5.5" barrel and the rubber grips.
My original buckmark was the camper....not accurate, and with a rear plastic site that broke all the time. The Standard has iron adjustables in the rear, and a partridge style front. I will go so fare as to reverse my findings in the quote and say I have found the best .22 auto that I have shot since my grandfather's high Standard military. The Standard will feed ANY fodder it gets and do so reliably and accurately. Match ammo like ELY just makes it better.

Now in the Revolver catagory, a few years ago I stumbled upon a Tuarus model 96; it's a 6" heavy barrelled/lug revolver that has an adjustable trigger, adjustable sights and a true partridge front that is great for targets. The size of this gun is close to a Smith K frame.

.22's.....just too much fun to have 1.:D