Hi Guys,
This was the first deer I took with my new Marlin 45.70 and a cast bullet of my own making. I was hunting in the hills east of Red Deer on the last day of the season, Nov. 2001. It was around 10:00AM and I was still hunting in the woods and noticed two does intently watching behind them. As I stood behind some willow brush, this little whitetail buck comes tearing along, intent on the girls. I stepped out and tagged him with one shot low in the chest at 30 yards, and watched the most spectacular pile-up I've ever seen. He spun completely around, 360 degrees and fell sliding like a sack of potatoes. The bullet cut off his heart, pulped his lungs and exited the hip leaving half a dozen lead fragments under the skin and a hole big enough to shove your fist in.
The load was 58 grains BLC2, CCI#250, and RCBS 405 that weighs 420 grains cast of wheelweights.
Not a big buck but a huge trophy for a guy with a new rifle and a cast lead bullet.
Regards,
Bryan :D

Bryan, Congratulations on the nice buck, buddy. You must be feeling rather smug, after taking such a beauty, with your own loads, w/ your OWN cast bullets, no less. Enough to make a grown man cry. I too use this bullet in my .45-70. Again, congrats, and I, and I'm sure everyone else, love seeing this kind of success story. Jeff :D

I've never owned a 45-70 but have been reading with some interest for many years. SHOOTING TIMES reported a 500 grain hard cast bullet that slayed big mean cape buffalo with plenty of penetration. Rifle was a modern Marlin.

I'm sort of suprised that we're not reading feature stories from Alaska about 45-70, 450 Marlin, and 444 and bear encounters. Perhaps I'm not reading enough or looking in the wrong magazines.
TR

Outstanding!

Hi Fellas,
Thanks for the kind words. Don't know if you guys find this stuff interesting, but diggin' bullets out of critters and stuff has been something of interest to me. The attatched photo will show left to right, two bullets recovered from wet poplar, two recovered from wet clay, and two as cast and sized. The poplar logs were about 14" in diameter, three in a row, the bullets penetrated the first two and lodged about 3"onto the third. The second group did about 15'' of wet clay.The one on the bottom came from the little buck in the thread starter photo. The rest of that one is probably still going! I've shot other deer with guns such as the 7 mag., 270 Win and Gibbs, 243, and only with spine hits have I ever seen such amazing reaction to a shot. The penetration tests aren't scientific, however compared to some of my other rifles, close in at least, Marlins Guide Gun is a formidable hunting tool.
Bye for now,
Bryan :)

Love a good autopsy report! Keep 'em coming....

Ab Rifleman,

Outstanding work! I don't cast my own and haven't shot many cast bullets but I keep seeing great results from people like you that is starting to convince me to give cast bullets a try for hunting! Some people will say medium test don't reveal much about bullets but I rely upon it heavily. I am a ballistic junkie I guess. I feel if a bullet doesn't perform well on logs, wet paper, or wet clay very well then it won't on the animal I intend to hunt!! Nice pictures too, adds so much to a story!!

Nice going! I've had similar results with my Guide Gun, only I use 300 grain Nosler partitions backed by 62.5 grains of Benchmark. I'm getting 2100 fps and the gun shoots in an inch at 100 yards! I shot a nice 7 point with that combo. He dropped so fast that the doe he was with hung around trying to figure out what he was doing! I had to chase her off.

Bob257

Hey Fellas,
Thanks for your comments and feedback. I only tried one jacketed bullet in my GG, but based on my primitive testing determined I was better off with cast "cause I have more control over the expansion characteristics or lack of than with jacketed bullets at relatively low velocity. The attatchment will show the Hornady roundnoses after the wet clay treatment, I think they were built for 458 Win Mag speeds.
Hmm, probably shouldn't load more than two rounds in a tube mag rifle either.
Regards,
Bryan
PS Sure would like to see some photos of you guys and your critters.
L to R soft snow, wet clay, wet clay, wet poplar.

Looks like slugs that would get the job done, to me.

Hey Kdub,
You're right, just need to be overly involved, part of the fun you know!
Bryan

Hi Kdub,
Sorry about the kind of dumb response to your statement, the fact is there's more to the story.

The load that I used generates an average 2050 FPS. My wet clay backstop just happens to be at the 100 yard target. The soil is fairly rock free and consistent. At the 100 YD impact point velocity has dwindled to 1530 FPS. Of 20 rounds fired and recovered more than half had minimal upset (similar to the bullet second from left) Kinda makes you wonder about any sort of expansion beyond 100 YDS. The cast lead bullets in the first post are from my sophisticated expansion medium as well.
Fact still remains, I really enjoy stuff like this! :)
Regards,
Bryan

Aw - I was just making a funny, Bryan :D

Howsomever, the 350 gr soft points are all I've poked through my 24" bbl'd 1895LTD1 and it's also ginning up at the 2065 +- fps stats. Interesting to see what the slugs look like at that distance and into the clay.

These shoot so darn'd good it would be a shame to try something else. Thought has been given to the Nosler Partition 300 gr bullets. Haven't shot any 300 gr before, as I don't like the hollow point ones available from other makers. Wonder how they would group?

Tried the 405 gr Rem's and wasn't too impressed - group size and recoil! Right now, the 350's are doing just fine.

Hey Kdub,
Ever shot an animal with that load? For all my efforts the proof is how animals react.
Didn't shoot real well in my rifle either, but I gotta say I have some difficulties shooting this rifle off the bench. Seems its mechanical parts and my body parts are always fighting for the same territory. Shed some blood for (to) this gun. :o
Bye,
Bryan

Nope, only killed paper so far!

Haven't had the opportunity to put hair in the scope yet. One of these days, though!!

I did put a Speer 405gr. jacketed bullet through a hog (barely, by the looks of the horrific exit wound) out of my .458 Win Mag, at a range of about 100 yards.

Never - and I mean never - have I seen an exit hole like that, not from my '06, or from my .338 either.

Wasn't a full-throttle load by any means, I'd estimate 2100-2200fps at the muzzle, but it's accurate (1.5" at 100 yards, 3 shots) and might be a little better suited to say 1800-1900fps in a Guide gun.

Food for thought.

Abe, I have shot hundreds of the RCBS's as well, and went to using a 405gr. Mountain mold gas checked with a larger metplat. What speed are you driving your 420 at? I have used Benchrest, H4198 and H322 to get around 2000fps, but have not recovered any bullets. I shot another two bison the other day for friends that had simply phenominal results. Shooting the 405gr. Remington was suprisingly effective, but the cast sure was even more impressive! Was that plain wheelweights, or did no heat-temper or water quench?

Hello Dr.A.,
The load with 58 BLC2 is not my favorite, chronographed at 1850 FPS. I now use 54 H335 for about the same speed but shoots considerably better in my rifle. Interesting that you mention buffalo, I was presented with an opportunity to shoot one near here, local rancher had a bull escape and rather than trap the beast decided to shoot and butcher. Unfortunately, because of work obligations I didn't join the hunt until the ranchers son did the job with a 7 STW. The point of all this is, the bullets in this thread should probably be restricted to light bodied animals. I tried Lyman #2 alloy with some success on moose, but found that material prone to shattering on the nose. I think Marshall has a solution for that.
Regards,
Bryan
Oops, they were not heat treated. What alloy do you use?

I use plain old water quenched wheel weights. They do withstand getting hit with a hammer and 12# sledge, but they did fragment on the large critters. I suppose you could call it BULLET FAILURE, but the animal did die in about 10 seconds! I am going elk hunting later this year, and am wondering if I should pay to get some certified alloy and then heat treat it. The main concern is brittle bullets. The water quenched wheel weights do not lead and are excellent for any velocity I shoot them at. The RCBS shoots higher than the mountain mold, but I would guess the larger metplat of the Mountain mold hits a little harder, even being a little lighter. Many thanks for the info!

Wait........snow on the ground.......no coat.........
short sleeves?
nuthin' warms ya up like a good buck, or a Steelhead!
that's one to be proud of congrats.