I'm wondering if anyone on this forum knows the jacket thickness on the 300gr. offerings from remington,winchester,barnes,sierra,hornady and nosler. I know the nosler varies from front to back. I think this info was on the old MT but i did'nt save it........thanks in advance......bearit.....

Sorry, bearit, but I have no idea. One thing--aren't the Barnes bullets solid copper? However, I was about to ask a similar question...

Remington advertises their 45/70 bullets as having a diameter of .457" instead of the 'normal' .458" from other manufacturers.

I've read about oversized cast bullets as big as .460" but never heard of anyone intentionally undersizing a bullet, even if only by .001".

I was considering a purchase of 500 of the Remington 300gr HP, but the .457" diameter has me reconsidering. I have been using the Hornady 300gr FNHP and have been happy with them but was looking to save some money...

Does any other mfr. offer bulk bullets?
Are these Remington bullets an example of 'you get what you pay for' or do they represent an excellent value?

bearit -

Barnes are solid copper, as Tom G pointed out. Nosler is a PArtition construction, but the others are standard cup and core construction, with the jackets being thinner than I would llike. Not sure how thick the jacket is on the Nosler.

But for me, its a moot point. I like the Speer 300g UCSP bullets for my .45-70. These bullets are similar to Gold Dots in that the jacket is plated on to a thickness of around 0.025". My experience with Gold Dots is that you can break them (as you can any bullet) on very hard targets like concrete or steel, but you cannot get the core to separate from the jacket. While Speer calls them HP's, the HP is more a tiny dimple than a traditional hollow. These shoot great in my 1895 and should be good for just about anything in North America.

bearit: Before you start buying bullets in bulk from any one manuf/ try this out in the long run you will come out on top. Please dont just skip through
this site read it all please

http://www.corbins.com/index.htm

bearit,

I cut these bullets with a dremel tool and measured the jacket thickness with a dial caliper. The bullets with two measurements had jackets that got thinner near the tip. Keep in mind that I'm an amatuer.


.458 300 grain bullets

Speer Unicore HP .030

Sierra Pro-Hunter FNHP base: .020 tip: .018

Barnes Original FN .045

Hornady HP base: .020 tip: .015

Reminghton HP base .020 tip: .015

Nosler Partition
top section base: .079 tip: .037
bottom section: .065
partition: .121


Tom G,

The Remington 300 grain bullets measured .458 in diameter. These bullets work well in my Guide Gun.

Edit: Just read CH's response. The Barnes Original is a jacketed bullet. The Barnes X-bullets are solid copper; I have no experience with them. I could not separate the jacket from the Speer. I measured the jacket thickness as best I could at the edge.

thanks for the replies.......direwolf, thats some serious research you did on those bullets.....did you originally post your findings on MT? I'm going to have some more 300gr. 45/70 loads made up by CPC and i'm wondering which of the 300gr. bullets to choose.....i've already had them load the 300gr.X bullet to 1950fps.@ the muzzle but many guys have said they can't get the accuracy from them...wrong powder,crimped wrong, i do'nt know,i do'nt handload.....but i'm looking for a back-up loading for lg. northern whitetail and possibly black bear from too close to 175yds. or so.....just wondering which bullet will maintain it's integrity close in but still expand beyond 150yds......probably no such creature....thanks.....bearit...

(snip lots of excellent info)
I could not separate the jacket from the Speer. I measured the jacket thickness as best I could at the edge.

Mr. direwolf, you are one seriously dedicated reloader.

Perhaps the most telling phrase in the entire thread "I could not separate the jacket from the Speer." Maybe I'll spend the money and buy the Speer 300gr UCHP. I use Speer 150gr SPBT in my '06 and had excellent service from Speer's 130gr SPBT in my 270 for years. It's just that these huge hunks o' lead that this 45/70 requires are so much more expensive than those 'regular sized' bullets...

Thanks for the data.

bearit,

I was looking for a deer and hog load with a manageable 200 yard trajectory that would hold up at close ranges. I cut the bullets up to see which seemed the toughest, then decided that I needed to shoot something to be sure. I loaded each of these with 55 grains of H4198 and fired them into a sand and clay dirt pile. This load produces 2050 fps with the Remington bullet and 2087 with the Nosler bullet. I haven't chronographed the others, but I assume that they don't vary too much. The range was 10 feet.

The Nosler went 12" and left a 3" hole that looked like it had been drilled. I couldn't find the bullet. I later recovered some bullets that had hit a berm or a steel plate at 100 yards. Most of these lost the nose leaving the rear part intact. The rear sections weighed between 200 and 230 grains.

All of the other bullets penetrated about 6", flattened out and lost a piece or two. Except for the Speer, the jackets separated.

I chose the Nosler. I haven't killed anything with it yet, but I hope to in the next week or two.

The dirt pile I used was full of roots and sticks, and was not a consistent mix of sand, clay and top soil. I also have no idea how penetration in dirt compares to penetration in game. The test wasn't scientific or particularly fair, but it gave me enough confidence to choose the Nosler.

I didn't post this on MT but I did get a bunch of information there. In my experience, Coyote Hunter has always posted good information. If he's happy with the Speer then its a good choice and half of the cost of the Noslers.


Tom G,

Thanks. I know what you mean about the cost of these bullets, I just try not to think about it too much.

bearit,

I was looking for a deer and hog load with a manageable 200 yard trajectory that would hold up at close ranges. I cut the bullets up to see which seemed the toughest, then decided that I needed to shoot something to be sure. I loaded each of these with 55 grains of H4198 and fired them into a sand and clay dirt pile. This load produces 2050 fps with the Remington bullet and 2087 with the Nosler bullet. I haven't chronographed the others, but I assume that they don't vary too much. The range was 10 feet.

The Nosler went 12" and left a 3" hole that looked like it had been drilled. I couldn't find the bullet. I later recovered some bullets that had hit a berm or a steel plate at 100 yards. Most of these lost the nose leaving the rear part intact. The rear sections weighed between 200 and 230 grains.

All of the other bullets penetrated about 6", flattened out and lost a piece or two. Except for the Speer, the jackets separated.

I chose the Nosler. I haven't killed anything with it yet, but I hope to in the next week or two.

The dirt pile I used was full of roots and sticks, and was not a consistent mix of sand, clay and top soil. I also have no idea how penetration in dirt compares to penetration in game. The test wasn't scientific or particularly fair, but it gave me enough confidence to choose the Nosler.

I didn't post this on MT but I did get a bunch of information there. In my experience, Coyote Hunter has always posted good information. If he's happy with the Speer then its a good choice and half of the cost of the Noslers.


Tom G,

Thanks. I know what you mean about the cost of these bullets, I just try not to think about it too much.

I find the Sierra 300HP/FN of good value and performance.
I shot a deer in the back , bullet traveled through into the liver, then lungs, and took out the bottom of the heart and out. The hole in and the one out was 458. The inside of the deer was hamburg. This was hand loaded with 56 gr. of H4198 federal match primers, win cases.
I site 3'' high at 100yrds
Second I do like the speer bullet line also. never been disappointed in the 30/30 , 308/3006 and 6.5x55. :cool:

Happy

Got me wondering, so I mic'd the Hornady and the Remington bullets on hand.

All Remington weights measured .4570"

The Hornadys measured .4575"

I got a $50 Visa gift card from Sprint for signing up for DSL so I went to MidwayUSA.com and bought 100 of the Speer 300gr UCHP and a .150" Twilight Aperture for my recently installed Williams FP sights. With the NRA round up it was exactly $50... How convenient.

Strange about the diameter of the bullets. I'll have to measure these Speers sometime. If anyone has a selection of so-called .458" bullets from various mfr's, I'd be interested to know if they're all "undersized" like the Hornady and Remington measurements from kdub.

Bearit-On the Barnes page,they list there O bullet as .032 in jacket thickness.I believe the majority of the 300 grain bullet's are of .025 in thickness making them big expander's for sure.Even Hawk bullet's are of .025 with the option of a special order for your choice maybe .035 would be better.

The .454 Casull at Hawk is also .025,I sure don't get that one.
But I am with Coyote on the Speer Unicore as I have shot a whole bunch of the 300 grain Unicore in .454 and they are a tough bullet.They just don't come apart even when hitting rock's.It's my bullet choice for the .454 and just might be for the 45-70 as I just found them at Midway.It's funny,Know one in Lewiston(Speer Home)has carried them yet. :confused:

Best of luck.

I'm wondering if anyone on this forum knows the jacket thickness on the 300gr. offerings from remington,winchester,barnes,sierra,hornady and nosler. I know the nosler varies from front to back. I think this info was on the old MT but i did'nt save it........thanks in advance......bearit.....

If your hunting with a .458 magnum bolt rifle, then leave the 300 grain bullets lay on the shelf. You would be better off in using the 400 or 450 grain bullet for penetration. You simply down load the bullet to suit your recoil expectations.

Now if your using a Lever Gun, in a 45/70 etc, then once again your still better off using a 400 grain bullet, which has a Sectional Density of .272 & BC of .302.......As opposed to the 300 grain bullets .206 in sectional density & .227 BC.

If your hunting with a .458 magnum bolt rifle, then leave the 300 grain bullets lay on the shelf. You would be better off in using the 400 or 450 grain bullet for penetration. You simply down load the bullet to suit your recoil expectations.

Now if your using a Lever Gun, in a 45/70 etc, then once again your still better off using a 400 grain bullet, which has a Sectional Density of .272 & BC of .302.......As opposed to the 300 grain bullets .206 in sectional density & .227 BC.

My experience is that a Hornady or Sierra 300 grain hollow point driven 2000-2200 fps will pass through any whitetail and that 400-405 grain bullets are not necessary for deer and the average sized black bear. That said the 405 grain Remington JSP is perhaps the best value in an all around bullet (all North American game other than for coastal brown bear) for the 45-70.