I am looking at the Marlin guide gun. I have the choice of a 450 or 45-70 for the same price. I think I might have seen this comparison a while back but I cant find it. Perhaps not?! I reload so ammo price isnt a problem unless 450 brass is that more expensive.
A bit of background: I am planning a Maine bear hunt next fall and I would like to carry a backup rifle. I plan to use my 454 Casull revolver as my primary hunting tool. I like the guide gun because its short and built like a tank. Very attractive aspects for a brush gun.

How do these cartridges compare?

How do these cartridges compare?

Loaded to their potential in Marlin lever guns the 450 Marlin and 45-70 Gov't are virtual ballistic equivalents. Hence, if you are going to reload the cost of brass (450 is more expensive) may be the only consideration, other than that, flip a coin.

Hoo boy, you've hit the proverbial loaded question. They are ballistically the same, with the 450 brass being a little heavier, and able to take greater pressures. The Hornady 450 factory loads push 350 grains at 2,100 fps. Lotsa oomph!

The 45/70 clan will tell you that there isn't a thing the 450 can do that the 45/70 can't. For example, check out www.buffalobore.com. I, on the other hand, don't reload, so the 450 was the way to go (1895MR) for the flatter trajectory at half the cost.

Either way, be prepared to fall in love.

Ursus

I am looking at the Marlin guide gun. I have the choice of a 450 or 45-70 for the same price. I think I might have seen this comparison a while back but I cant find it. Perhaps not?! I reload so ammo price isnt a problem unless 450 brass is that more expensive.
A bit of background: I am planning a Maine bear hunt next fall and I would like to carry a backup rifle. I plan to use my 454 Casull revolver as my primary hunting tool. I like the guide gun because its short and built like a tank. Very attractive aspects for a brush gun.

How do these cartridges compare?

Hi. First let me qualify my response with this: I do not nor have I ever owned a gun for either of these cartridges, but I have read a lot about them and here's what I have found. They are nearly identical in capacity and can be loaded to the same pressure in the same type of action, the Marlin 1895 in this case. If you were not a handloader, the 45-70 has a much broader range of loads available than the .450 Marlin. However, since you are a handloader, you can load the same bullets to the same velocity with either cartridge. The difference is the 45-70 is a rimmed case and the .450 Marlin is a belted case. It's a matter of personal preference. Starline Brass does not list .450 Marlin brass on their website, so maybe it's only available from the companies that load it. I don't know the answer to that one, but I think the difference in the price of brass between the 2 cartidges would be insignificant with no more pieces than you would need. I also plan to buy or trade for a Marlin 1895 one of these days, and like you, I am a handloader and could be happy with either one. However, I am leaning toward the 45-70. Lot's of dies and brass available, I can use Garrett or Buffalo Bore heavy loads if I want to pay for premium ammo, and in a pinch, 45-70 standard pressure ammo is probably available in many more retail stores than .450 Marlin. I posed the question of which one feeds better on another website, and 1 man said .450 Marlin fed better, but he was strongly biased toward the .450 and I have not read of any other 45-70 lever gun owners complaining about the rimmed cartridge being a problem in a lever gun. I hope I gave you some thoughts to ponder, but the bottom line is it's "your" preference.

Something else to ponder. I know this does not happen often, but it does happen. You show up, your gun shows up, but your ammo winds up in Bora-Bora. The local Billy Bob's gun shop or Wally World is the only place to buy ammo, which do you think they are more likely to have, the everybody and their grandmother makes a load for cartridge,(.45-70), or the more expensive and less widely used new comer (.450)? If in a magazine fed rifle like a Siamese Mauser or Gibbs, the rimmed round can cause problems, but not in the tube fed Marlins. Very unlikely for the rimmed .45-70 to give you any more trouble than the belted .450.

Big Bore and others have some pretty good points.

If you don't reload, the factory 45-70 is pretty tame because of all the older, weaker action rifles still out there. That's why Marlin put a belt on their .450. This ammo comes factory loaded a lot warmer than the factory 45-70 because it will only fit a modern, stronger action.

If you reload and have a modern levergun or singleshot, you can load the 45-70 to as great a level as the .450.

Whatever, both are good cartridges and have a lot of punch. They are also close to medium range cartridges. 200 yds is stretching them to the limit. 100 to 150 yds is a better max range, due to the baseball like trajectory. Mine is sighted in for 150 max yds.

broncobill86 -

It doesn't make a bit of difference which you choose.

Here's a comparison of .444, 450 Marlin and .45-70 loads, both factory and handloaded that I put together have posted numerous times on Marlin Talk when the question came up. (Thank God for cut and paste!)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

.444, .45-70 and 450Marlin comparison - updated 12/26/2003.

Here's a short compendium of information on loads and factory ammo for the 444, 450M and .45-70 (Marlin).

Here are the fastest loads I can find:

.444Marlin
200g @ 2730fps, 3311fpe (Accurate Arms, 41,300CUP)
240g @ 2499fps, 3329fpe (Hodgdon, 42,100 CUP)
250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Nosler Partition $27.78 (Conley)
265g @ 2200fps, 2849fpe, JFP (Conley)
265g @ 2273fps, 3041fpe (Hodgdon, 41,100 CUP)
265g @ 2335fps, 3209fpe (Hornady @ Cabelas)
280g @ 2200fps, 3009fpe (Corbon)
300g @ 2082fps, 2888fpe (Hodgdon, 42,500 CUP)
300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, JSP $22.75 (Conley)
300g @ 2150fps, 3078fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo)
300g @ 2152fps, 3086fpe (Hodgdon #26)
300g @ 2211fps, 3257fpe (Speer #13)
305g @ 2100fps, 2988fpe (Corbon)

450Marlin
250g @ 2509fps, 3495fpe (Hodgdon, 42,200 PSI)
300g @ 2321fps, 3589fpe (Hodgdon, 42,200 PSI)
350g @ 2196fps, 3749fpe (Hodgdon, 42,300 PSI)
350g @ 2100fps, 3428fpe (Hornady Factory)
400g @ 2023fps, 3636fpe (Hodgdon, 41,900 PSI)


.45-70
250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, HP (Conley)
300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Nosler Partition (Protected Point) (Conley)
300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
300g @ 2424fps, 3915fpe (Hodgdon, 40,00 CUP)
325g @ 1950fps, 2745fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
350g @ 1970fps, 3017fpe, JFP (Hornady) (Conley)
350g @ 2191fps, 3732fpe (Hodgdon, 39,300 CUP)
400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Swift A-Frame Flat Point (Conley)
400g @ 2002fps, 3561fpe (Hodgdon, 39,400 CUP)
405g @ 1900fps, 3247fpe, JSP (Conley)
430g @ 1925fps, 3539fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo)
500g @ 1625fps, 2532fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo)
540g @ 1550fps, 2880fpe (Garrett)




Factory ammo and costs:

.444Marlin
$37.93 200g @ 2320fps, 2391fpe, Barnes XPB @ Conley
$37.93 225g @ 2200fps, 2365fpe, Barnes XPB @ Conley
$19.99 240g @ 2350fps, 2942fpe (Remington @ Cabelas)
$27.78 250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Nosler Partition (Conley)
$24.99 265g @ 2335fps, 3209fpe (Hornady @ Cabelas)
$22.62 265g @ 2200fps, 2849fpe, JFP (Conley)
$17.00 270g @ 2200fps, 2902fpe Speer Gold Dot @ Georgia Arms
$39.99 270g @ 2250fps, 3034fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$36.32 280g @ 2200fps, 3009fpe (Corbon)
$17.00 300g @ 2000fps, 2665fpe Speer Gold Dot @ Georgia Arms
$39.99 300g @ 2020fps, 2719fps, Swift A-Frame @ Conley
$22.75 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, JSP (Conley)
$39.99 300g @ 2150fps, 3078fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$37.11 305g @ 2100fps, 2988fpe (Corbon)
$39.99 335g @ 2025fps, 3049fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)


450Marlin
$20.21 350g @ 2100fps, 3428fpe (Hornady @ Midsouth)


.45-70
$41.54 250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$??.?? 300g @ 1810fps, 2182fpe (Remington @ Remington web site)
$20.39 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester JHP, Natchez)
$20.60 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Federal, Natchez)
$29.81 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester Partition Gold, Natchez)


$22.84 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, HP (Conley)
$44.66 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$32.50 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Nosler Partition (Protected Point) (Conley)
$41.54 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$25.08 350g @ 1970fps, 3017fpe, Hornady JFP (Conley)
$34.89 350g @ 1800fps, 2519fpe, BCSP (Corbon @ Corbon web site)

$19.47 350g @ 2025fps, 3188fpe, PMC @CheaperThanDirt.com)
$39.99 350g @ 2150fps, 3593fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$24.99 400g @ 1250fps, 1388fpe (Black Hills @ Cabelas)
$44.66 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$54.46 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Swift A-Frame Flat Point (Conley)
$12.99 405g @ 1350fps, 1639fpe (PMC @ Cabelas)
$18.99 405g @ 1100fps, 1088fpe (Ultramax @ Cabelas)
$22.50 405g @ 1325fps, 1579fpe, RNFP (Conley)
$18.99 405g @ 1330fps, 1590fpe (Remington @ Cabelas)
$24.50 405g @ ??? (Winchester @ Cascade Ammunition web site)
$35.57 405g @ 1700fps, 2600fpe, FPPE (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$22.99 405g @ 1900fps, 3247fpe, JSP (Conley)
$39.99 405g @ 2000fps, 3597fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$41.99 405g @ ??? (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$50.00 420g @ 1850fps, 3200fpe (Garrett)
$39.99 430g @ 1925fps, 3537fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$34.50 460g @ 1650fps, 2780fpe, HC (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$41.99 500g @ ??? (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$52.99 500g @ 1625fps, 2931fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$50.00 540g @ 1550fps, 2880fpe (Garrett)
$180.00 500g @ 1530fps, 2600fpe (Speer AGS Tungsten, Garrett)

...with the 450 brass being a little heavier, and able to take greater pressures. The Hornady 450 factory loads push 350 grains at 2,100 fps. Lotsa oomph!

...I on the other hand, don't reload, so the 450 was the way to go (1895MR) for the flatter trajectory at half the cost.

Either way, be prepared to fall in love.

Ursus

.45-70 Government brass reloads to 50,000CUP in a Ruger No 1. (Don't try that in your Marlin no matter which brass your using! .45-70 Government or .450 Marlin! :eek: )

PMC 45-70HA +P+ using a 350gr Hornady Bullet is ballistically equal to the Hornady .450 Marlin load and costs less.

Conley Precision Cartridge also loads a .45-70 load with the 350gr Hornady bullet ballistically equal to the .450 Marlin load that costs about the same if not a little less.

So again, even if you don't reload, flip a coin. :D

CH-very good info. That took you a little while to compile, no? Thanks for posting it. I hope that you do not mind that I "stole" if for future reference.

Thanks for the info guys. I think that I am now leaning more towards the 45-70.

Bill

45-70 for the reasons already given, but to me the history is just as important. Maybe not a logical reason but I think of the 45-70 as the next step from a muzzle-loader. It has brought me to the latter part of the 19th century, I still get to play with loads(bullets, powders ect) and it makes me somehow feel more connected to the past. There is somthing very satisfying about using something old and maybe making it perform a little better(Thats why I still love my Norton Commando so much) and I like being differant from the croud.
If the 45-70 gets any more popular I may have to look for a new cartridge.

Thanks for the info guys. I think that I am now leaning more towards the 45-70.

Bill



I was where you are now asking the same question. It all started when I laid eyes on my friends guide gun .450 in the cabinet. So a .450 is what I just had to have. Then I decided to ask around on various forums. Of course both are great guns. I chose the 45-70, ported and blued. Started reloading as a result and have never looked back.



Perferator

I've owned both and for what it's worth I would go with the 45-70. Everybody has mentioned that the cartridges can be loaded to very close to equal pressures. For me I prefer to keep the velocities down a bit when at the range, and when hunting whitetail. The biggest difference I ever noticed shooting both these rounds where that at the bench you could be in for some severe scope-eye with the .450 factory stuff,while the 45-70 factory loads were much friendlier. Both cartridges cycled well in both guns, and both gave surprising accuracy set up scoped and peep-sighted.(1MOA scoped;2-1/2MOA peep) The only thing I found in the .450's favor were that the rounds were easier to load into the magazine than the 45-70's rim, but once loaded the 45-70 is my choice. All in all you won't go wrong with either, but remember about the .450's jump the first shot you take from the bench.
whizzum

I have noted that there is a rather large group of people out there ( in diffrent shooting forms )
that just cant stand anyone hunting anything with a lever action rifle .
Thay will say anything and do anthing to prove there side even Post missleading and even date that is
twisted to prove it ..
It just burns my @@@ ..
To prove there point thay first bring up that .......
Most lever action guns have working pressures of 18.000 PSI and cant handle heavy loads as thoughts found in bolt action's... This as you know is only part true ....And twisted around to make it sound bad..
And thay post as fact data like this ......

450 Marlin 405gr FPbb
PR: WLR CM: Horn TempF: 58 OAL: 2.525" PT PW Vel SD GS Bullseye9.09286.31.6710.09875.92.511.010477.72.312 .010997.91.6813.011578.43.6

450 Marlin 405gr FPbb
PR: WLR CM: Horn TempF: 56 OAL: 2.525" PT PW Vel SD GS HS612.088512,43.213.095513.41.6114.010147.91.9115. 0107313.32.516.0112310.33.7

Ok now who's going to bother shooting this Cra& in there gun Hu?
I Would like to add somthing right now DONT TRY ANY OF THESE LOADS EVER IN ANY OF YOUR FIRE ARMS E V E R...
This is like me trying to prove a point by tell you guys that the 460 Wea/ mag suck if you load it with 98 grains of saw dust and that make it a crummy gun to hunt with ? Say WHAT??

Pottsy

I'd go with the 45-70 for sure. The 450 will likely die-out and you'll then have difficulty finding brass and ammo.

It'll die-out because it's too identical to the already very well established 45-70. And, it does not have the super, appealing history of the 45-70.

Broncobill I went through exactly what your doing. I'm going back for a second bear hunt in Maine this fall and I decided on taking a guide gun after looking them over at the gun shows. I decided on a 45-70 guide with ported barrel because the price was almost one hundred bucks cheaper than what the 450 was going for at Bass Pro. I also after surfing the web for all the info I could read on the subject decided the 45-70 would be the best gun for me and bought a 2X7 varix2 Leupold to stick on the top of it. Both guns are similar but looking for factory amo in Maine may or may not be a problem for the 450. I have yet to shoot my guide gun but it will be soon.

If the .450 Marlin has heavier brass then it would be my choice. I own a Ruger No. 1 in 45/70 so if I buy a Big Bore it would be in .444 Marlin or .450 Marlin. I do own an Encore in .444 Marlin and I love the round.

Sidebar:
What is the rim diameter of the .450 Marlin. This would make an excellent choice in bolt action due to the fact that it doesn't have the large rim found on the .45/70.
I always wanted a .45/70 bolt action but the .450 would be better for feeding purposes. Maybe an old Enfield action might work??
hmm :)

If the .450 Marlin has heavier brass then it would be my choice. I own a Ruger No. 1 in 45/70 so if I buy a Big Bore it would be in .444 Marlin or .450 Marlin. I do own an Encore in .444 Marlin and I love the round.

Sidebar:
What is the rim diameter of the .450 Marlin. This would make an excellent choice in bolt action due to the fact that it doesn't have the large rim found on the .45/70.
I always wanted a .45/70 bolt action but the .450 would be better for feeding purposes. Maybe an old Enfield action might work??
hmm :)
http://www.gibbsrifle.com/sport.html

Or
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976419657.htm

Gibbs Rifle Company Quest Summit Frontier .45-70 Sporter Enfield No. 1 Mk III receiver with highly polished blued barrel, Williams rear sight, detachable 3 round magazine. Any Enfield No. 1 Mk III scope mount will fit. .45-70 caliber, very nice sporter stock.

Pottsy

http://www.gibbsrifle.com/sport.html

Or
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976419657.htm

Gibbs Rifle Company Quest Summit Frontier .45-70 Sporter Enfield No. 1 Mk III receiver with highly polished blued barrel, Williams rear sight, detachable 3 round magazine. Any Enfield No. 1 Mk III scope mount will fit. .45-70 caliber, very nice sporter stock.

Pottsy
Thanks!
I am very impressed with the 303 and 45/70.
Great site and thanks again.

Does the .450 offer a shorter COL? Seems like Winchester would've just as well offered the new ported model in the original, unless it's too long for the 94 action.

The only disadvantage the 450 Marlin has is case capacity.The 45-70 Winchester case holds 7 more grains of powder than the .450 Marlin case when filled to the brim.

Jayco.

Victor here are some stats from Lee's Modern Reloading II

45-70:
Case wall thickness: .0115"
Max OAL: 2.55"
Trim Length: 2.105"
Useful Case Capacity: 4.06 cc

450 Marlin:
Case wall thickness: .012"
Max OAL: 2.49"*
Trim Length: 2.1"
Useful Case Capacity: 4.06 cc

* The loads listed show min OALs of 2.475" to 2.7"?

So, it's plausible that one could buy a .450, set-back the barrel around a .10" , and have it re-chambered to .45/70?

Why, you ask? The latest Winchester 94 Timber carbine! :D

So, it's plausible that one could buy a .450, set-back the barrel around a .10" , and have it re-chambered to .45/70?

Why, you ask? The latest Winchester 94 Timber carbine! :D

No, it is not possible as you describe. The "rim" of the belt of the 450 Marlin is almost 1/4" from the base of the cartridge. The diameter of the belt is .532". Plus the case above the belt is a larger diameter (around .513") than the 45-70 at that point.

The rim of the 45-70 is .608" and the case just above the rim is .505".

Hence, you could probably not just setback the barrel enough to rechamber to the 45-70 without surpassing the area of the barrel intended for the chamber.

Thank you, Sir.

For those of you wanting a Bolt gun in a 450 Marlin this guy does it and does a very good job: http://www.gun-shop.biz/index.html

Read "just some thoughts" on the left hand side.
.................................................. ..................Marko

Believe me, if you load the 45-70 up, you won't need anymore gun or want anymore, and, you can kill anything you find in North America. I have a 45-70 Cowboy, 26 " barrel, and it's unreal how accurate and how hard it shoots. For my hunting loads I use 420 grain cast and 48-49 grains of RX7-that's all you need!! Just ordered a Chrono, so I'll have more information on my loads.

Good Luck,

JimC

Thanks guys for all you opinions on the two rounds. I have gone the route of the 45-70. Chose the Ruger #1.

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=132133&sort=7&thecat=998&password=

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php?photo=132129&sort=7&thecat=998&password=

By the time I got to read this thread, alot has been said about balistics, so I wont contribute anything there... but here is something else to consider also (possibly a moot point, since you mentioned that you could get either at the same price, and this may not be the case with this angle..) I LOVE my .450 Marlin, but when I go shooting with my friend who has a STAINLESS 45-70, I get "stainless-envy". As of now, I still cannot get a stainless .450. If anyone is reading this over in the Marlin factory, know this.....I would buy one tommorow if they became available. Just a side point, but a valuable option to myself, a guy that hunts more in the rain and wet snow than not.

For those of you wanting a Bolt gun in a 450 Marlin this guy does it and does a very good job

Interesting reading what this fellow has to say about the 450 Marlin.

CH said, "It doesn't make a bit of difference which you choose." and wow!! the evidence in cost and velocity to prove it!! I like that. Go for what you want! If it meets your needs you'll like it. If you buy what anyone else thinks is the better gun, and you don't like it...well...you get the point!
PS Thanks, CH!!

Please excuse a nOOb question, but.


I carry a 475 Linebaugh or a S&W 500 for back up when hunting, I have heard that it is safe to fie 475 Linebaugh in a 45/70 in a pinch (I understand there can be feeding issues). Can anyone confirm this?

Also is there a lever action that will feed/fire the 500 SW?

absolutely not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the 475 is a high pressure .475 bore and the 45/70 is a .458. The early .475 were made from shortened and modified 45/70 brass. They are not interchangeable at all. You would be in a world of hurt if you could get it to chamber and fire. I don't know where you heard that, but someone was definitely way off base there.
Maybe they said you could make brass for the .475 from 45/70 brass, which is correct.

I bought a Marlin Guide Gun last year. I chose the 45-70 and had no difficulty making the decision.

Widespread availability of 45-70 ammo, cases, reloading data and reloading tools was the deciding factor.

45-70 and 450 Marlin are equivalent in the Marlin if you load your own ammo. For some other action types the rimmed and rimless cases might make a difference.

To keep me from loading the Marlin 45-70 too hot I have now ordered a Ruger No1 458 Lott. My shoulder should be the limiting factor with that gun.

I am looking at the Marlin guide gun. I have the choice of a 450 or 45-70 for the same price. I think I might have seen this comparison a while back but I cant find it. Perhaps not?! I reload so ammo price isnt a problem unless 450 brass is that more expensive.
A bit of background: I am planning a Maine bear hunt next fall and I would like to carry a backup rifle. I plan to use my 454 Casull revolver as my primary hunting tool. I like the guide gun because its short and built like a tank. Very attractive aspects for a brush gun.

How do these cartridges compare?



.450 Marlin is for people that do not reload & want high performance .

.45-70 for those of us that reload .

But this may not be the whole truth , since I have read there are companies loading high performance ammo for .45-70 ?

God bless
Wyr

It's funny, this post is 3 1/2 years old and the 450 Marlin has now been here 8 1/2 years. Still think it isn't going to be around?

I've done a lot of pressure trace testing with both in my Marlin 1895's and the 450 ALWAYS trumps the 45-70 when loaded to it's max of 43.5K PSI. It is an awesome cartridge! Now with thousands of rounds out of both rifles, I say the only real practical difference in the rifles is that the 450 Marlin cartridge cylces through the action and ejects much smoother than the 45-70 with it's large rim. 450 Marlin brass, new or used, is very easy to come by.

broncobill86
Have considered a Puma 454 '92? Since your going to shoot 454 pistol already then you'd be able to shoot the same ammo out of the rifle. This is exactly why I got my Puma. Out of the rifle your in the same ball park as the 45-70/450. Nice light rifle to carry and will put a stumping on a Black bear. A 300 gr WFNGC at 1995 fps out the rifle/1600 fps out of the pistol.

450 Marlin brass, new or used, is very easy to come by.

Not only that, but i've got some .450 Marlin brass that has 6 or 7 firings on it and it looks and shoots as good as new.

I've got ~150 rounds of brass "stashed away* in case it ever becomes hard to get, but the 60-70 rounds that are in the current rotation get a lot of use.

I've only had my 1895GG for about 9 months, but it's already become one of my favorite rifles to shoot.

The standard .45-70 is the only way to go. They have been around forever and will continue to be. The .450 is a flash in the pan. It's factory ammo is expensive and harder to find in a backwoods hardware store if it comes to that. Good shooting.

I am looking at the Marlin guide gun. I have the choice of a 450 or 45-70 for the same price. I think I might have seen this comparison a while back but I cant find it. Perhaps not?! I reload so ammo price isnt a problem unless 450 brass is that more expensive.
A bit of background: I am planning a Maine bear hunt next fall and I would like to carry a backup rifle. I plan to use my 454 Casull revolver as my primary hunting tool. I like the guide gun because its short and built like a tank. Very attractive aspects for a brush gun.

How do these cartridges compare?

It was not long ago my son had the same question & he chose a 450… I loved the round and now I own a 450. It is a wonderful round. I do reload and find it an easy round to load and attain published velocities. To my knowledge you do not have a very large selection of “Factory” ammo but those you have are excellent.

Yes you can pump up a 45/70 to those velocities… but be careful what rifle you put them in… That was one of our deciding factors… There are many rifles chambered for the 45/70 and not all can handle the heavy Marlin Pressures.

If you buy “Standard Factory” Ammo for the 45/70 you will find it loaded for the lowest common denominator. This may not be a problem, they have worked for well over 100 years…

We bought 450s and have been very happy with our choice… mine is an XLR.

At substantial cost Wild West Guns offers a conversion from .45-70 to .457 Wild West Magnum while guaranteeing the converted rifle will function flawlessly with .45-70 ammunition of all types.

On paper, it appears to be a conversion to a "strong action" .45-90 using purpose-made brass, but what do I know.

Does the .457 WW Magnum conversion work? Does it do what they claim it does? If YES, is what it does worth doing? Is this an expensive way to have your cake and eat it, too? Or is it waste effort?
***
While I'm here, Wild West Guns also offer a lever they claim is usable with gloves or mittens. True, or hyperbole? I'm in Montana where this is important.

At substantial cost Wild West Guns offers a conversion from .45-70 to .457 Wild West Magnum while guaranteeing the converted rifle will function flawlessly with .45-70 ammunition of all types.

On paper, it appears to be a conversion to a "strong action" .45-90 using purpose-made brass, but what do I know.

Does the .457 WW Magnum conversion work? Does it do what they claim it does? If YES, is what it does worth doing? Is this an expensive way to have your cake and eat it, too? Or is it waste effort?
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While I'm here, Wild West Guns also offer a lever they claim is usable with gloves or mittens. True, or hyperbole? I'm in Montana where this is important.All one really needs to do is modify the Marlin 1895 45-70 to cycle 2.67" rounds and seat the bullet in a 45-70 case to that length. You don't need the 0.1" of extra case length. The 457 WWG Magnum is a superfluous cartridge.

I'd shoot some Buffalo Bore or Cor-Bon loads through a standard Marlin .45-70, before you go to a lot of expense making it into something else.

You might decide it kicks hard enough, as is :D