Which would be stouter ??? The 350 Remington Mag. or the now Wildcat 35 WSM ????


Buckeye

Buckeye,

There's a posting elsewhere on the board about a 458/300WSM. The gentleman said the brass was ~2.1 inches. The .350 Rem Mag is based on the standard 2.5 inch brass case similar to the 300 Win, 7MM Rem and others. I'm thinking (read somewhere) that dispite its larger diameter, the WSM has a smaller capacity.

Ya know......they say when you get old that memory is the second thing to go......and I can't remember what's first.

Lobo in West Virginia

Actually, the 350 Remington Magnum is a short action cartridge with a case length of 2.170" and a COAL of 2.80". Hence, the 35/300WSM wildcat would have a greater case capacity and have potentially better ballistics.

http://www.reloadbench.com/cart/pipoikhjrftoh/156.jpg

Whoa!

I'd checked my "Cartridges of the World" and found the .350 Rem under 'Obsolete Cartridges" with no schematic, and assumed the longer format. I should have pulled out my 1974 copy of Speer's reloading manual #9!!

Messers Stanton and Gates have based their .375 and .416 Beartooth cartridges on the .350 Rem case.......would you not get an increase in performance with the WSM as the parent case, or similar performance with a lower operating pressures for those of us with older Marlin rifles......assuming proper headspace without the belt.

Lobo in West Virginia

Here in Australia, they have actually built a rifle for this round, but call it the 35 Sambar. It is close to the 358 norma. Look up guns & game magazine Australia. WWW.gunsgame.com

closs :)

Thanks Guys ,I'd like to have a BLR in a 350WSM, or a 338 WSM., BOOM BOOM!

Buckeye

I was thinking the same thing. Had the idea a while back about making one of the new BLR's in 358 into a 35/300WSM should be a simple rechamber and a new bolt head and WSM magazine from one of the 300 WSM guns and it would be done. Seems like one of the simpler conversions to me. I just have to figure out why I need it since I have a 600 in 350 and a Browning 71 in 348 AI among my many (wife says way to many) guns. Of course there is the money issue...........

If is was a need issue,I'd have to pass,If a guy has a 45/70 and a 30.06 and a varmit rifle he has everything he needs ,but this is a want issue,and thats the way I like it.;Now money is a different issue ,I'm broke; but I aways have trading guns.

Buckeye

Lately I've been intrigued by converting a 300 wsm to .375. Seems like it would be a small and powerful package. Does anybody know how much difference there would be in case volume between a .350 mag and a 300 wsm? Also where on the web would I find dimensions for the 300wsm case? Any ideas on how to calculate how much powder a .375/300wsm would hold? I'd like to compare it to my .375 Whelen AI.

Thanks

Eric

If is was a need issue,I'd have to pass,If a guy has a 45/70 and a 30.06 and a varmit rifle he has everything he needs ,but this is a want issue,and thats the way I like it.;Now money is a different issue ,I'm broke; but I aways have trading guns.

Buckeye

Buckeye.......I think that tune goes something like this:

A .222 Lil Deuce, .338 Winny mag, 416 Rem. Mag will in fact take care of all your needs. :D

Buckeye, Jackfish is right about the length of the .350 Rem. Mag. It is about the same length as the WSM cartridges and the .308 Win. and it's kids. I don't recommend trying to chamber it in the Marlin lever action. It might be technically feasible, but achieving the velocities you want would be a problem without making too much pressure and bolt-thrust for the Marlin. The BLR is a better idea. If that rifle is now chambered in WSM cartridges, it might be a good conversion. Someone said they might be chambering the BLR for the .358 Win.? If they are, that rifle would be a good investment in it's original caliber. It will go up in value, especially in the Northwest US. Used one's command a premium now. So do Savage 99s in .358 Win. The .350 WSM sounds like a great rifle if it is short, light and powerful. It should be powerful, and it has the bore capacity to achieve pretty good velocity with a relatively short barrel such as 20" to 22". Great for elk and bear in Ore. and WA. Make it stainless to cope with the mud, blood and eternal rain. Make it light to go up steep, brushy hills each morning about 1500' to 2500'. Make it sturdy to survive the beatings it will receive in rocks and mud.

Lately I've been intrigued by converting a 300 wsm to .375. Seems like it would be a small and powerful package. Does anybody know how much difference there would be in case volume between a .350 mag and a 300 wsm? Any ideas on how to calculate how much powder a .375/300wsm would hold? I'd like to compare it to my .375 Whelen AI.
Eric
Other day I wrote out a detailed response, full of data and weblinks.
Went to send it and the system was down; got lost.
Anyway, the short version is that the WsM case will hold about 10% more powder than the 350 case if necked up to 375.
The 375-06 Imp, will hold around the same amount (water capacities are different, but there are large differences in neck/shoulder/COL relationships) with the WSM case doing better for a lighter bullet, and the '06 edging it out with 270's or higher. Medium weights, it's a wash.
If you had an action and a bunch of money you just had to do something with, you could do worse than a little 7# (all-up), 22" 375 WSM throated to your favorite 200-235g bullet. Make it a M70 with a COL of 3.1" or thereabouts, and you're close to H&H territory.
If you're not big on money, that 375-06 Imp is one of my favorite ideas for a .375" bore.

Thanks for the info. I've already got a pretty sweet little .375Whelen AI so I guess I wouldn't be gaining much...I just like that 3/8ths bore. Maybe a 9.3x62 necked up a little...or maybe the H+H improved... ;)

Eric

Buckeye -

No question, the wsm is 12-13gr (20-ish%) larger... www.gmdr.com/levern/35-300wsm.jpg (and if our experience with the 300 wsm is at all related, I'd clearly go the wsm route).

do shoot straight,
greg
www.gmdr.com

Hi guys/gals, I have a custom Rem 600 in 350 mag. Its fitted with a Tobler 20" barrel and is very accurate with Rem 200 gr PSPCL over 65 grains of BLC-2.
It chronos 2880 fps and cases seem to last forever with neck sizing.
Been using this gun for many years as I had an original factory 600 with laminated stock.
This one is much lighter with a Brown Precision Pound'r kevlar stock and lightened action, 4x Leupold scope she weighs 5 1/2 pound.
I am thinking of re-chamering to 35/300WSM to take advantage of the increased capacity.
Anyone done this in a Rem 600?????
The 300 WSM cases seem to feed ok
Thanks and cheers, pete (New Zealand)

I have an Encore in 350 Rem Mag, it is excellent with the 225 Gr Ballistic Tip.

If you could get some one to rebbarrel a BLR the 35 WSM would be sweet. I had to hop over to Browning's site to look but I think a BAR in 35 WSM would be the Cat's *** as well. Sean

[QUOTE=Buckeye]Which would be stouter ??? The 350 Remington Mag. or the now Wildcat 35 WSM ????


The 350 Remington has a max capacity of 73.7 grains, while the 350 WSM has a max capacity of 81.9 grains. Both cartridges have the same operating pressure of 65,000psi. This makes the Winchester much "stouter" than the Remington. I am considering a Model 70 project in that wildcat myself.
Happy shooting!

I have a 375 WSM. It definately has a greater capacity than my 350 RM. About seven gr. of water. As for loads in the 375 WSM it will move the Barnes 235 XLC out ot a 20" barrel at 2790 fps for 4060 ft/lbs of energy ten yds from the muzzle. It will push the 300gr. interlock to 2440 fps. And the recoil, while stout, is much more reasonable than you would expect.

If you want a .375 rifle that is more powerful than the .375 Winchester and less so than the .375 H&H, look no further than the .376 Steyr. It fits the standard 30-06 size action, which means that it will also work in the long action BLR Lightweight '81.


go to www.steyrscout.org/376steyr.htm

It seems to me that if you really want a rifle caliber that can do all things for hunting big game animals, why not just purchase yourself a model 70 Safari in a .375H&H and have the best of both worlds.

You can download on the powder and shoot cast bullets at lover velocities or crank it up to shoot 2600fps or 2700fps and take care of Cape Buffalo! :cool:

I can see the want or need for a lighweight lever gun in a .358 caliber but don't forget about the 444 Marlin or 45/70.
handloaded they will take out grizz bear without a hiccup.

I agree with 2Bits, just get a 375 H&H and load it for what you are hunting.
I use a .458 Lott for everything. (pigs to pachyderms).
I simply change the load to match the game.
Anywhere From 300 grains @ 2800fps to
600 grains @ 2150fps
I had a Remington 700 Classic in .350 Mag. and
would swear it kicked as hard as my Ruger No 1 . in the Lott.

the 350 Remington mag was designed to give .35 Whelen ballistics from a short action and short barrel, and it does a great job at this. but it is not at home with longer barrels (22" is my imaginary limit) or trying to compete with the true magnums. i really like the .350 RM, and is said to be capable of cleanly taking anything up to (but not including) cape buff by people who have done it. but when working with the .350 RM, think "short .35 Whelen", not "magnum" and it will not let you down.
that said, i think there is room for a .35 with a little more poop but in a slightly larger package than the Remington Guide Rifle or the Remington 600.

just my thoughts, Monty

I've grown to prefer short actions after use of a lightweight 350RM KS for years. I have to make a concience effort not to short stroke even an 06 length action. Also I have a Sako Handy in 375 H&H and it kicks like a mule by comparison while being at least a pound heavier. It may wind up being a 458 Lott someday for truely heavy game. But for any thing short of that my 375 WSM will do a fine job with out kicking me into the next county. I can get the same speed as the new 325 WSM 225gr. load with the Barnes 235 XLC. But I have a larger bullet with the option of a 250, 260, 270, or 300gr. bullets. Alot of P.H.'s prefer a 300 gr. 375 at 2400fps to the faster magnums. Many download their H&H's to "improve" killing power. I'm not claiming to understand it, but they say it is the case. My 300 gr load was a ballistic exercize to see if it could be done in a true short action with a 20" barrel. I did think of purchasing a 376 Styer but decided to go with the shorter action I am comfortable with. It does look like a fine round but I have never fired one. Oh, the 375 WSM is built on a Stainless Super Stalker so it's a good foul weather gun as well.

If you want a .375 rifle that is more powerful than the .375 Winchester and less so than the .375 H&H, look no further than the .376 Steyr. It fits the standard 30-06 size action, which means that it will also work in the long action BLR Lightweight '81.


go to www.steyrscout.org/376steyr.htm (http://www.steyrscout.org/376steyr.htm)

Wow... there are two of us in the world appearently:D
I thought I was the only on the planet that appriciated the virtue of the 376 Steyr!
This would be an amazing caliber for Elk, brown bear, and bison in full capacity and still could be loaded down for close in work on anything that moves. And the real bonus is that you now have a rifle that is not only versitle enough to be practical in N. America but having the minimal legal bullet dia. allowed to hunt big game in Africa.

The thing that killed this round was the lousy, impractical, down right ugly rifle it was chambered in. If some one would have taken this round under its wing and made a decent "classic" rifle for it I have no doubt that it would have done alot better than it has.
I dream of a Ruger Express being offered one day in this round haha!!! Not that its ever going to happen!

375s - OK, y'all have my interest!

Will someone compare the 376 Steyr with the 375 Whelen AI?

Case capacity and OAL???

Well for starters the Steyr is based on a case thats new to the American market(9.3X64mm). Where as the Whelen is based on the '06 case

In a nut shell, you have a 30'06 length action/cartridge combo, with out the mangnum size bolt face, with out a belted magnum case.. the Steyr case is a little larger in the head, about the same in the shoulder, rebated rim, and close to the same lengths.. when I say same I mean with in about .010" here and there...

here are some links if I can do this right on the cartridge. The best thing about it over the wildcat rounds is that its NOT a wild cat... you can get factory brass, factory ammo, and most rifle smiths will have access to reamers.. the same cannot be said for the 375 Whelen.
http://www.steyrscout.org/376steyr.htm
http://www.african-hunter.com/the__376_steyr.htm
http://www.african-hunter.com/eland,_shangaan_hunters_and_the__376_steyr.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/376steyr.htm
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/376steyr.php

there that should answer most of your questions better than I could.. happy reading.

Oh yes.. and please, please dont judge this round based on the only rifle its factory available in:confused: ... I truly respect Col. Jeff Cooper, but the Steyr Scout is a lousy excuse for a rifle (in my opnion!!)

Here is a great discussion about the steyr over at accurate reloading if anyone else has some interest in this wonderful round..
I would really love to see this cartridge go mainstream.. espically if the RMEF would get behind it! It seems there is nothing an Elk hunter wont take into the woods.. and this would be perfect for those who feel like the 375H&H is a great elk rifle..
http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=827621&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Ya know......they say when you get old that memory is the second thing to go......and I can't remember what's first.

Lobo in West Virginia[/QUOTE]



We I am getting up in age myself and can only guess as I have only part of the clue.
Something about a rope and a hill--
I think the answer was "the wife"- I don't know any more how one related to the other.

I have the 35 WSM and have had it since the 300 WSM hit the shelves. I only have a 23" stainless match barrel and am getting 2820fps with sub MOA groups at 100 yrds with a 225gr Nosler Partition. Needless to say that it is awsome. I had the dies made from Hornady(custom of course) and the brass i just necked up the 300 WSM brass, worked great. Hope this helps you out.