My cousin and I are looking to buy some big bore lever guns.

We both like the Marlins, he wants a .45-70 , and Im undecided really. I was thinking about a .444 or .450 . Im just worried they are gonna knock the crap outa me...lol I'm 6'1, about 140lbs.

What I'm looking for, is, how bad is the recoil on those 3 ? How far out are they good for ? If they are ever used for hunting it will be White Tail or Wild Bore. Overkill ? Maybe, but whats overkill when ur having fun :)

anyhoo, any advice you guys can lend will be great.


Thanks

I'd have to say that loaded appropiately, there's not a nickel's worth of difference in noticed recoil between the three. Stock configuration and shooting stance will dictate preceived recoil.

All three, in my opinion, should be restricted to 200 yd maximum range, due to trajectory of projectile and the necessary holdover required for further ranges.

As far as overkill - how dead is dead? The goal when hunting is to assure as quick and instant kill of the animal as possible. The larger bores have greater impact and leave larger wound channels for bleeding out and for trailing. If I lived or hunted where close range (150 yds) shots on deer or pig were possible, my Marlin 1895LTD 45-70 would be the firearm of choice.

The 45/70 I'm selling in trading post is a wonderful gun,I want stainless. When I first got it I thought the porting might reduce my range but I don't shoot that far to begin with. The porting makes it lould but does reduce the kick. Combined w/ the shock pad it's real easy on the body. My 336 .35's has less kick but is "sharper". There ain't a deer around that'l stand up to a well placed shot from a .35, but for hogs(or anthing) over 250lbs the 45/70 packs more stopping power. It's likely an easier round to find over .444 .450, at least on the shelves of Wally w.

I don't reload, so if I were to use handloads, I would have to buy them from someone who does reload.

But with stock loads (like you would buy at Wally World), which one is superior for knock down power ? I've never really done any hunting, but I want something thats gonna knock the animal over...lol :) Im not into that track them down thing.

Tang - if you are not going to re-load yoour own, I would suggest going with the 45/70. From the bench, I have found my 1895 to be almost brutal when shooting the Remmington 300 grain hollowpoints. And I wasn't real impressed with the accuracy, although I know I was flinching until I got a recoil pad. Even then, I was not impressed. Then I shot some Federal 300 grain JHP, the Speer HotCor bullets, and what a difference! First off, I got myself off the bench, and shot like I was gonna for real, and with no recoil pad, all shots stayed in a 6" bull at 100 yards. That is VERY satisfactory for me! Even then, I took the .35 Rem in the woods 'cause I was more comfortable hitting within 2 " of what I am aiming at.

Maybe with more time devoted, I will tighten up on the 45/70 enough to want to try my hand at re-loading for myself. At the moment, there is plenty of factory ammo available.

If you don't want to track any, you better get a howitzer :D - it's almost 50-50 chance the animal is gonna run some, unless you take out both shoulders. But I share your sentiment about trackin' hogs, I've hunted the Savanah River, and don't like having to look through half the darn swamp for something that blends with the dying vegatation.

I have an 1895, and got it because I wanted the 22" barrel, but I don't know how thrilled I am with the PG stock. I like my straight stocked carbines MUCH better!

Whatever you get, shoot it ALOT!!!

Good luck!

Recoil will be significant when you shoot from a bench rest, but noody notices the recoil when they're shooting at game. If it bothers you, get one of those over-the-shoulder recoil pads for your practice sessions. Some would consider the 30-30 too light for hogs, but it's definitely a deer killer. You might want to consider the 35 Remington as well. You definitely don't need a big bore.

45/70 ammo will be much easier to find than 450 Marlin ammo, and the selection is generally better. I don't know about the availability of 444 ammo. 30-30 ammo is cheap and available everywhere.

As for stopping 'em in their tracks as opposed to tracking, I'd recommend lots of shooting practice. Shot placement is way more important than caliber. If you shoot 'em in the guts or the hind quarter, you'll be tracking. Practice from a variety of shooting positions, not just standing. If you can, practice on a moving target sometimes too. A tire swinging from a tree with a target in the center is excellent practice. As the tire twists & turns, you have to time your shot to hit the target as it presents itself. Similarly, in the woods you have to time your shot where there's an opening in the trees. You can also roll that same tire across the face of a hill.

Most importantly, be safe and have fun!

thanks for the advice, I definetly want something that isnt going to cost a fortune to practice with. Also, I will be checking into those recoil pads, I dont want flinching.

Like I said in another topic, after shooting a .300WM a few times, I was flinching like I was having seizures from it.

If you have shot the 300 win mag you will have no problem with factory loads out of the 444 or 45-70. I have a 300 win mag and a 45-70 and the 45-70 is like shooting a 22 after shooting the 300 no kick at all just a little push thats all.

Tang...

My 444P used to kick like a mule and it was very hard to sit down and shoot 20 heavy loads, loads similar to the Hornady Light Magnums.

I had my gunsmith put a LimbSaver grind to fit recoil pad on the rifle and now I can shoot 40 or more of the same with no effect to my shoulder. I'm a big fellow, 6'2" and 210... okay 220# but I've got a very bad shoulder with rotar cuff surgery less than a year ago. The pad cost $45 installed.

LimbSaver has a pre-fit pad for the 444 and other Marlins and Pachmayr has a pre-fit Decelerator for all the Guide Guns.

Tang,

Good information has been provided by all of the above.

First, forget knocking anything down, dead on the spot. It can happen, it will happen if you hunt long enough, BUT many, many times it doesn't happen, even with good shot placement. I have never anchored an elk on the spot. Close by, but not on the spot. Most of my deer and antelope have run for a ways, up to 100 yds.

Life is messy; hunting is messy. Forget about the Rambo/Terminator "snuff 'em" mystique. Learn to hunt. Get close. Make your best shot. And learn how to follow up every shot. The only big game animal I have failed to recover was the first deer I shot, over 50 years ago. I have no doubt I could find that deer if it happened the same way today. It was dead, I just did not have the skill to work out the trail. Experience is a great teacher.

Finally, why not get a Marlin 30-30? Low recoil, cheap factory ammo, good resale, and adequate for the hunting you describe. Two seasons with the 30-30 and you will know if you want and/or need something bigger.

My honest reason for wanting a .444, is just because its big bore. I wanna be the skinny guy shooting something that no one else wants too...lol I know it sounds crazy, but at the same time I want it functional.

I've been looking at ammo for the .444, not near as cheap as the .45-70, but not too bad I dont guess.

heres what cheaper than dirt has

36751 Cor-Bon CB444M280BC Hunting Bullets, 444 Marlin, 280 Grains, Bonded Core, Soft Point, 20 Rounds per Box $31.26

36752 Cor-Bon CB444M305FP Hunting Bullets, 444 Marlin, 305 Grains, Penetrator, Flat Point, 20 Rounds per Box $31.94

66232 Remington R444M Centerfire Rifle Cartridges, 444 Marlin, 240 Grains, Soft Point, 20 Rounds per Box, 10 Boxes per Case $19.47

For the hunting I describe, since Ill be using factory loads to start off with, will that 305gr penetrator suffice ?

Size doesn't really matter that much when it comes to recoil. If you are recoil sensitive then that is a different matter. Pick the one that is most comfortable for you to shoulder, that will help. If you handload you can start with lighter loads till you come to be familiar with your rifle. I have a friends son who shot my .416 Weatherby very accurately offhand without the muzzle brake on. He is 13 yrs old as well but recoil doesn't seem to bother him. I've been at the range where 6'4" guys weighing 260lbs wouldn't even think of shooting it! It depends on how much you are already accustomed to shooting. One of the rifles you are looking at is going to recoil a bit harder than the other but their isn't that much of a difference to me.

Heck, the recoil on the .444 and .45-70 isnt that bad. I love the pistol grip and the 22" barrel on my dad's Marlin 444S, which i will be buying from him shortly. He has it sighted in for Remington 240 gr. sp's, but i reload so i think i will switch over to 300 gr. hornady xtp, and when i get casting equipment, 310 gr. lee's.

NH_Hunter

Since I'm not a reloader, am I looking in the wrong direction ? Would the .450 Marlin pack more of a punch with factory loads ?

Are there either one of these (444,45-70,450) that will group atleast 2" at 100 yards with factory loads ?

Since I'm not a reloader, am I looking in the wrong direction ? Would the .450 Marlin pack more of a punch with factory loads ?

Are there either one of these (444,45-70,450) that will group atleast 2" at 100 yards with factory loads ?

As a non-reloader looking for a lot of power from a factory lever gun, yes, you are in fact the target market for the .450 Marlin!

The heavy .45-70 loads from Buffalo Bore, Cor-Bon, Garrett, etc., are all you'd probably ever want or need from a .45-70, but almost certainly the .450 will have better over-the-counter ammo distribution for a while.

However, having said that, I think you'd become a handloader soon enough when the recoil of the full-house .450s gets a little old. Hard to do a lot of practice with a gun that kicks a lot.

ok, cool. I really do appreciate all the information you guys have provided me with.

I'll probably just go with the .45-70, those Corbon loads you mentioned will be fine for white tail, and maybe I can learn how to reload before I decide to go bear or elk hunting.

Cor-bon-Garrett Cartridges and Buffalo bore go in that order from a low pressure to a max pressure.They are not even close in CUP or PSI with Cor-bon being the lowest and Garrett's come in at 35,000 PSI or 33,000 CUP and Buffalo Bore at 40,000 CUP.Big difference in felt recoil and performance if you believe in numbers.

I personally don't mind the moderate recoil of the hotter loads.I would get the 45-70 for the factory ammo available just about anywhere with many outfit's loading it up from SAAMI spec's of 28,000.Atleast here in Idaho,450 ammo is hard to find unless you live in a populated area.

Best of luck.

I dont live in a populated area, extremly small town. Wally-World, a few gun shops, and an Army Surplus store is about all I got to choose from as far as ammo.

So I think the .45-70 is the best bet. I'll set the scope at 150yards with the Buffalo Bore, and just plink with the cheap stuff.

I found a Simmons scope I like too. The Pro 50, 2.5-10x50, with the variable range compensator.

I believe in big scopes...lol I have a 3-9x40 on my 22... :D

I looked at the Buffalo Bore ammo on Cabelas site, its between $41 and $52 per box. Looks like it really packs a wallop tho :D Set the scope and hunt with it, plink with the Wally World stuff, or order one of the Bulk boxes from Cabelas for the .45-70. 100 rounds is $89

I assume the 350gr will be more than good enough for deer, and use the 430-500 on bear or Elk.


Thanks to everyone that lended me some advice, and I cant wait to go make my purchase now :D